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sins
7th March 2008, 07:04 AM
Daisy is going through a tough time,she started vomiting night before last and then yesterday she developed diarrhoea,I starved her for 24 hrs and just gave her water. Thankfully she's not vomiting any more but it's now exiting the other end.thank goodness for vinyl floor covering in the utility room:(.
She's not passing any blood or mucus and seems lively and alert.She had a small few nuts yesterday evening(bad idea) and is still drinking and passing urine.
Soooo, do I give her another 24 hours or make a vet appointment for this evening.I'm not sure what else we can do but keep her hydrated and let this thing pass through.
Sins

Karlin
7th March 2008, 07:08 AM
My view: when in doubt, or if something carries on longer than I expected, I always ring my vets and ask their opinion. I always feel they are best placed to evaluate the symptoms and recommend what to do. If this has been going on more than 48 hours, I probably would be going in to the vet but ring them and I am sure they will advise.

pippa
7th March 2008, 08:55 AM
I have had this with Pippin in the past as he can suffer with his bowel ,it's very sensitive.
If starving for 24 hours didn't work I always called the vet.I'm sure they will advise. Let us know how it goes.Hope she is well soon.

sins
7th March 2008, 07:36 PM
Seems like things were worse than I thought.We're back from the vet with a sick little girl.She has a bacterial infection and her tummy and bowel are filled with gas.She got two injections, one to reduce inflammation and I don't know what the second one was for because the moment she got the second jab in her neck she went for the vet like a crocodile and howled like a maniac, then she went for me and finally turned on my Husband.She screamed for about 3 minutes and finally calmed down.(Please let her not have SM):eek:
She's off food for another 24 hours and got antibiotics called Marbocyl(Marbofloxacinum) and hopefully she'll be able to eat quarter of her usual food tomorrow evening.
I also got to discuss the cat problem with the Vet and to trap/neuter/release the males is €45 each, so if I can capture the first of them I can get them done on saturday week.
Sins

Karlin
7th March 2008, 07:40 PM
I never allow vets to inject in the neck or back; I always ask for the thigh so that might be a consideration in future.

Given that reaction though, you really might want to consider checking out her neck area further when she is feeling better -- I've never heard of such a reaction where the dog actually tried to attack people or owners. :(

amanda L
7th March 2008, 07:46 PM
Sins wrote:

"She got two injections, one to reduce inflammation and I don't know what the second one was for because the moment she got the second jab in her neck she went for the vet like a crocodile and howled like a maniac, then she went for me and finally turned on my Husband"

I find that hard to believe, or else she must be in horrific pain :( :(.

Cathy T
7th March 2008, 10:55 PM
Oh how horrible!!! Poor little thing. That is really a very extreme reaction...what did you vet say when it happened?? Hope she's feeling better.

sins
7th March 2008, 11:59 PM
That is really a very extreme reaction...what did you vet say when it happened??
The first priority was preventing her from falling off the examination table!!!! Second was trying to console her and calm her,third was getting the kids out of the room - remind me to never again allow kids in, but I didn't expect her to get injections.
The vet made some comment about "not expecting that from the breed".
What I found more worrying was that she accepted the injection in the right side of her neck with a mild whimper, but on the left side, all hell broke loose,we weren't in any danger of being savaged:o but luckily she didn't bite anyone, I don't think it was a coordinated attack, but as we ringfenced the exam table to stop her tumbling off, she lunged at out outstretched arms, mouth open squealing.Looking back on it, I think it was an extreme reaction to the trauma, pain and illness(and possibly being at the end of her heat).Whatever happened she was in severe physical pain.Actually now that I recall, she leaped off my knees barking and lunged at my neighbour on Tuesday when she gave me a bunch of flowers! Somehow she perceived the flowers as a threat....
She seems to be improving though, she's hovering around the fridge and the tail is wagging and is back to her sweet self.She's facing into day three without food and hopefully she'll make a quick recovery.:xfngr:
Sins

Cathy T
8th March 2008, 12:22 AM
:xfngr: for you. Sounds like a scary experience. I would have been so upset.

Karlin
8th March 2008, 06:47 AM
I would still definitely have this checked more thoroughly and consider an MRI, perhaps in the UK on the low cost schemes. I can put a question to Dr Rusbridge if you'd like but to be honest, having addressed a lot of queries to her in the past, I am sure she would recommend investigating further by a specialist if only to eliminate this as a concern.

Karlin
8th March 2008, 06:49 AM
I would still definitely have this checked more thoroughly and consider an MRI, perhaps in the UK on the low cost schemes. I can put a question to Dr Rusbridge if you'd like but I am pretty sure she would recommend investigating further if only to eliminate this as a concern. :flwr:

luvzcavs
8th March 2008, 06:57 AM
Just to try and put your mind at ease I bet the second injection given was buscopan, given what they are treating her for and the reaction you describe. I would not jump to conclusions as yet with the sm thing as if it were a buscopan injection this is a completely normal response for 3 - 5 minutes. you could always just ring your vet and ask what the second jab was for. if i'm wrong i'm sorry and then yes go down the sm road. Good luck :)

Karlin
8th March 2008, 07:16 AM
I'm sorry, but I have never heard of a normal reaction to any injection, including this one, being to respond in this way. I have had two dogs receive these injections for severe gastro -- Lily, twice; and Leo, who actually has SM, got it two weeks ago -- and both never had any reaction at all. I am sure my vets would have explained possible adverse reactions to it if they were known to include sudden, severe pain, as they know Leo has SM and that Lily most likely does as well.

sins
8th March 2008, 09:48 AM
I'm definitely planning to have her Mri scanned anyway as we're considering breeding her when she's 2 1/2 with an mri clear dog.
The vet also mentioned something about expecting it to sting, but I was so thrown off base by the ensuing pandemonium with dog and children that most of it seems like a surreal dream.I was so upset I couldn't sleep last night.
Looking back on it I can't blame poor Daisy,she was very ill at the time.
If you take one small sick dog,crate her for an hour, have a great dane slobber over her in the waiting room,plonk her on a stainless steel table,stick a thermometer up her rear,squeeze her tummy and give ger two painful injections, I think the pain just made her lose the plot.And needless to say having the entire family in there simply terrorised her and made her panic.
On the positive side, whatever he gave her certainly has made a huge difference.She's been six hours without having diarrhoea and is jumping around the garden after crows.
Sins

Nicki
9th March 2008, 04:32 PM
I'm so glad she's feeling better but this sounds pretty scary, and I personally would look to investigate further, and possibly MRI sooner than at 2 1/2. Obviously she was very stressed at the time but I still wouldnt' expect that kind of reaction.

pippa
9th March 2008, 05:17 PM
Glad she is feeling better...I would still be a little concerned though as I have had Pippin at the vets extremely ill in the past, he used to suffer with colitis, but never had that sort of reaction to any injection and he used to get two also.

sins
10th March 2008, 12:24 PM
Thanks to everyone for the feedback and info.
She's made a full recovery and has another three days of antibiotics to go.She's due vaccination boosters at the end of the month anyway so i'll try and meet with my regular vet. Once again it was a different vet that I hadn't met before.
So ..do I once again try getting the injections in the neck and see if the reaction is the same?Because she won't be contagious I won't crate her this time and keep her calm.
She has no obvious symptoms of Sm,you can rub her,push her and pull her around the neck area and there's no reaction at all, even tickling her tummy or back.She rarely scratches(but her eyes can often blink separately)
Her mother is 7 and healthy, her sire 10 1/2 and grandsire will be 15 this year so even though it's no guarantee that she's healthy the odds surely must be in her favour.
I'll see if petplan will cover the Mri scan locally first.I don't exactly cherish the thought of crossing the Irish sea at the moment in gale force winds:razz::razz:, ideally I'd wait until May before going to Uk for scans. I'll get the info off you anyway Karlin, I know you were happy with the centre you chose to have your boys scanned.
Sins

Cathryn
10th March 2008, 01:05 PM
Hi!

I agree that this should be investigated further too, I have never had a dog react like that to an injection in over 16 years and they generally do have a high pain threshold. Hope that your insurance covers you for an MRI, keep us posted on that front won't you?

Am very glad to hear that her tummy is settling down again now, you might want to try giving her a bit of live yogurt to help replace the natural bacteria in her gut once she has finished her anti-biotics, hope this helps??

Cathy Moon
11th March 2008, 01:11 AM
So ..do I once again try getting the injections in the neck and see if the reaction is the same?Because she won't be contagious I won't crate her this time and keep her calm.
She has no obvious symptoms of Sm,you can rub her,push her and pull her around the neck area and there's no reaction at all, even tickling her tummy or back.She rarely scratches(but her eyes can often blink separately)


No, I would request to have all future injections in her hind leg area.

Daisy's reaction as you described sounds similar to a SM pain episode, which I have seen many (Charlie). There is only one way to know for sure - MRI.

Sometimes SM can be barely noticeable - Geordie has mild scratching in the morning but not during the day, and a syrinx in his neck was found on a CT scan that was supposed to be diagnosing PSOM. I can brush him, etc. with no reaction, but he has it.

luvzcavs
11th March 2008, 01:42 AM
I'm glad your little one is starting to feel better.
I must apologise as i didn't fully read the post before I went off half cocked and somehow missed the bit about her snapping like a croc at the vet, you and your husband :o I just thought she screamed which I have had happen with the buscopan injection on a number of occasions with both my men. Sorry for the duff info but so glad she's doing better :)

Crittercall
11th March 2008, 02:02 AM
Some injections do sting a bit and she was obviously stressed. And concerning vaccines in the future - my vet was giving one of my girls an injection of some kind recently and was giving it in the rear area. I had been taught to do any sub-q injection in the neck and asked him about it and if it was because of SM. He said that studies have shown that the medication is absorbed much more readily if given in the rear than in the skin around the neck. I certainly wouldn't feel shy about talking to the vet about it.

Glad all is doing better with your baby. We went through a bout of hemorrhagic gastoenteritis a couple of years ago and thought we were going to lose Tibby.

Good luck!!

Kris Christine
12th March 2008, 12:09 PM
Does your dog like yogurt? You might want to try some plain yogurt on her dinner -- if she has a bad bacteria in her gut, the yogurt could help by repopulating with the good bacteria. Also, antibiotics do wipe out the good intestinal flora as well as the bad, so you might want to try yogurt or a probiotic.

When Butter had a nasty bout of some kind of bad bacteria in his gut last fall (eating treasures in the field left by the wildlife), he had severe diarrhea and vomiting. Apparently the toxins produced by the bacteria affected his neurological system because he couldn't get off his bed or walk very well until it passed. The yogurt did help him and the whole incident put numerous gray hairs on my head.

Hope your little one is feeling better soon.