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View Full Version : House Training a second cavalier



shippers
10th March 2008, 09:45 PM
We are considering getting a second cavalier puppy as a companion for our 13 month old cavalier Sally. We met a local breeder at crufts who has recently mated two of her dogs and is waiting to see if the bitch has taken which she should know at the end of the month. It will likely be the very beginning of August before these pups are ready for their new home if it is to be. My concern is how easy is it to house train a second dog? I'm worried that Sally might go backwards if she witnesses the puppy having an accident in the house and that Sally might think its ok for her to do it :eek:. Sally is fully house trained now. What are other members experiences of getting a second dog as a puppy?

Cathryn
10th March 2008, 10:00 PM
Generally I find that the older dog actually helps to train the younger one through example, your girl will be of an age where she will find it pretty embarrassing to have an "accident" after being "clean" for so long and will in all probability be a good example for the new puppy. Just remember to not allow your new baby too much freedom initially and work on from there and you should have no problems at all!! HTH??

WoodHaven
10th March 2008, 10:27 PM
I have three pups I am trying to house train. The older dogs are providing all of the hands on demonstrations-- I am merely the cheering squad. So far we are doing about 50% outside-- but we are on day 4.

pippa
10th March 2008, 10:37 PM
I found that the older dog kind of teaches the younger one...My second dog learned a lot quicker with my help and the example of my older dog.

shippers
10th March 2008, 10:50 PM
This all sounds promising. What other problems has anyone encountered when getting another Cavalier? I'm trying to cover all questions before we go on our search for a new puppy. We have some time yet as it will be the middle of July to beginning of August at the earliest. I was also considering insurance. We already have Sally insured but do any companies do insurance deals for more than one dog?

Cathy T
11th March 2008, 12:07 AM
Shelby was super easy to housetrain...she did what Jake did. Thankfully she picked up on his good habits and none of his bad ;)

Bruce H
11th March 2008, 11:10 AM
I'll just agree with what others have said. In my experience, it's actually easier to housebreak a puppy if the puppy has an adult "role model" to watch.

Other problems? Obviously more vet bills, food, etc. As far as getting along, sometimes our adults get a little annoyed with a puppy's over-exuberance and may discipline the puppy. That's actually a good thing IMHO, it teaches the puppy doggy manners; we have never had a puppy hurt when it was disciplined by an adult, it always sounds worse than it really is.

Others may be able to speak on this as well, but we have never had a problem bringing a new dog into our house. After the initial get aquainted period (if you do a search, lots has been written about this), it's like they have been there forever. Our adults are so used to having visitors because we board dogs for our puppy people, that get aquainted period is usually less that a day. Others here have talked about it sometimes taking longer, but I don't recall anyone saying they had a long-term problem.

Don't know anything about insurance, maybe others can comment on that.

I'm sure others will comment on any problems they have had, but I truly believe the benefits far outweigh any problems. Even if I didn't breed, I couldn't have just one or two any more.

simonrickell
11th March 2008, 12:10 PM
I think that we have had mixed success with this. Following the leader sounds like it should work - and to some extent it did for us.

HOWEVER, Willow was fully trained with our Guinness. BUT when Bailey came along - we found that he was marking territory in the house. I think that he was a bit lost - did not quite know what was happening and wanted to demonstrate to this newcomer that he was important.

I found that I had to start knocking him down a peg, as Will was getting a bit too big for his boots. It didn't last too long , but when it is against four poster bed curtains, and long white curtains inthe dining room - it gets a bit tedious.

Phyllis
11th March 2008, 12:13 PM
Our Molly came to us at 3 1/2 years from the breeder after two litters as she developed uterine inertia the last time, had a caesarian and had to be spayed. She is an angel dog ( no bias here!). There were no pups available ar that time.
Of course, we just had to have another! Seven months later we got Cholmondeley ( Chum) and Molly accepted him as one of her own -she was used to puppies. She helped train him as the others have said and he followed her everywhere. I've heard it's best to get a pup of the opposite sex to the one you have but Cavaliers are so friendly in general that don't know if it really matters much.
He keeps her active as he wants to PLAY when she wants to snooze. He pulls her ears etc. until she will chase him - all in fun. What we didn't realize was the NOISY play that goes on with the older dog yipping to sort off say," Ouch!" and the little guy growling and racing around to make her chase him. Yours will be closer in age though.
Well, we love them both and don't regret our decision though a pup is much more energetic!!
Phyllis:)

shippers
11th March 2008, 01:43 PM
Thanks for all your good advice. The breeder has invited me to see the dogs she has so I will be calling in some time this week. I need to remember all the questions I need to ask. I was wondering when other members have asked the price of the puppies? I don't want the breeder to think I'm only worried about the price but then we don't want to get our hearts set on puppies that are way too expensive bearing in mind the parents have been placed at crufts.

Cathryn
11th March 2008, 07:55 PM
Hi!

Well speaking as a breeder I will tell you that the one thing that really annoys me is when the very first question is "How Much?" :swear:

I know that many folks have a budget or a pre-set upper price, and I appreciate that, but I really do prefer to be asked questions about the puppies and their parents, health checks etc, THEN when as much information as possible has been gleaned you can pop in the

"Oh, I almost forgot, how much are you asking for the puppies by the way?"

then if it is above your limit you can politely say so.

HTH??

shippers
11th March 2008, 07:59 PM
Yes I thought this was the case so we'll wait until we have as much information as possible and the breeder may even let us know without us having to ask. It just seems insensitive asking somehow.

ppotterfield
11th March 2008, 08:36 PM
I am not a breeder so this is from a little different perspective. If you have already had an initial conversation with the breeder and if you really do have a limit on what you can spend and perhaps have to travel to see the puppies, I think it would be okay to ask before you take up the breeders time and yours on something that may not be possible. When you call or e-mail to set a time for a visit, I would just say "I know this is a difficult subject for everyone, but at this point in our lives we do have some limit on what we feel we can pay for a puppy, and so that we do not take up your time interviewing us and we do not find a puppy we love and then not be able to even be considered for him or her, would you mind telling me how much your puppies are?" I think good breeders know the difference between this type of inquiry and one from someone who is just interested in price.

On the other hand, sometimes your upper limit on what you would consider paying may change once you see the puppies :p. Plus, I do not know about Great Britian, but in the United States while there is some variation in price based on how well the parents have done in shows, it really is not as great as you might image. Sometimes puppies from dogs who have been in the top ten in conformation are not any more and may be less than puppies from dogs who finished their championship but were never shown as specials. Lots of factors go into how the price is set. Breeders jump in and correct me if you think this is wrong.

JMHO

Cathryn
11th March 2008, 09:00 PM
I am not a breeder so this is from a little different perspective. If you have already had an initial conversation with the breeder and if you really do have a limit on what you can spend and perhaps have to travel to see the puppies, I think it would be okay to ask before you take up the breeders time and yours on something that may not be possible. When you call or e-mail to set a time for a visit, I would just say "I know this is a difficult subject for everyone, but at this point in our lives we do have some limit on what we feel we can pay for a puppy, and so that we do not take up your time interviewing us and we do not find a puppy we love and then not be able to even be considered for him or her, would you mind telling me how much your puppies are?" I think good breeders know the difference between this type of inquiry and one from someone who is just interested in price.

On the other hand, sometimes your upper limit on what you would consider paying may change once you see the puppies :p. Plus, I do not know about Great Britian, but in the United States while there is some variation in price based on how well the parents have done in shows, it really is not as great as you might image. Sometimes puppies from dogs who have been in the top ten in conformation are not any more and may be less than puppies from dogs who finished their championship but were never shown as specials. Lots of factors go into how the price is set. Breeders jump in and correct me if you think this is wrong.

JMHO

Very valid points!!

Personnally a litter can have the most incredible pedigree going and NONE of them will do anything in the ring, I once used a Crufts Best of Breed Winner at Stud and the resulting litter although initially very promising, just didn't "Do it" for me and were all sold as pets, on the other hand there have been some very influential stud dogs who never set foot in the ring!! One UK Breed Record Winner never "bred on" whilst a Champion half brother (Same Sire) went on to be a Top Stud Dog!!

Personnally, I ask the same for a "Pet" puppy as I would for a "Promising" puppy, you cannot make guarantee's as to how a puppy will eventually turn out as an Adult. If I have an enquiry where a lot of travelling is going to occur then I am happy to email pics etc.

Basically decide what you are prepared to spend, and be very clear what you want, be it pet etc. Also bear in mind that many breeders can improve on a bitch puppy with a few faults when they breed on with her so it is easier to buy dog puppies than bitches, also dogs in this breed are no more dominant than bitches, to be perfectly honest I prefer dogs to bitches!!

shippers
11th March 2008, 09:14 PM
We did consider getting a dog but a few weeks ago I went to a friends house and they have an unneutered male who is about 3years old. He wouldn't leave Sally alone and was continually trying to mount her. It got too much and Sally was fed up of it. However, Sally loves to play with Ellie who is owned by Ann on the forum. This is why we decided on a bitch although I doubt all males would act like my friends. Regarding showing I would like to take the puppy to classes and maybe some ringcraft classes and see how things go but the puppy would be a pet before anything else.

Cathryn
11th March 2008, 09:23 PM
Make sure that the breeder knows this so they can direct you towards a suitable puppy, some breeders will ask more for a "promising" puppy so be prepared for this as well.

With regards to the Dog thing, many young boys will be excited by a new bitch especially if they meet them in their (the dogs) own home! My parents have 1 boy and 2 girls, and for a very long time my in-laws had 1 of each too, OK the girls have all been spayed but they co-exist so well together once the initial "pecking order" is sorted out. Also a young male puppy would be better tolerated than an adult if you see what I mean?

Am glad to see you are thinking straight already re the puppy being a pet first and foremost, as all showdogs are pets for the rest of the time that they are not being shown too!! (Well mine are anyway!!)

shippers
11th March 2008, 09:30 PM
Thanks for the help and advice. We will let you know how we get on as we are calling at the breeders home tomorrow evening. We still don't know if the girl is pregnant yet but hopefully she will be :xfngr:. It will be difficult to get everything we are asking for. We don't mind the colour but we would like a girl. The pup will need to be ready to come home towards the end of July too.

Cathryn
11th March 2008, 09:38 PM
Thanks for the help and advice. We will let you know how we get on as we are calling at the breeders home tomorrow evening. We still don't know if the girl is pregnant yet but hopefully she will be :xfngr:. It will be difficult to get everything we are asking for. We don't mind the colour but we would like a girl. The pup will need to be ready to come home towards the end of July too.

:xfngr: that she is in pup for her breeder and for you too!! All in the laps of the gods right now eh?? Please keep me posted won't you? And feel free to get in touch via PM if you you need to as well OK?? :hug:

shippers
11th March 2008, 09:42 PM
Thankyou Cathryn for all your help. It's a great help as we want to get things right. We are wondering what are the chances of the bitch having puppies this time? Is it usually a success? I suppose it's very difficult to tell. Also how will the breeder know she is expecting?

Cathryn
11th March 2008, 10:03 PM
Hmm I will PM you with contact details as I know Karlin is not keen on breeding discussions and with good reason, hope this is OK??

shippers
11th March 2008, 10:33 PM
Apologies Karlin

Karlin
11th March 2008, 11:04 PM
Oh I am happy to have discussions about breeding generally and we all learn a lot from informational discussions about the process. What I don't want is for people to come here asking for advice and information about breeding *themselves*. :thmbsup:

That's why I was excited to have Bruce do his forum for his two litters as the whole complex and responsible process is documented. I feel that understanding what is involved with ethical, committed breeding allows us all to better appreciate the choices breeders make, the hard work and expense that goes into the process, the commitment to each individual dog and puppy, and the potential risk. I know many are very interested in the theory without wanting to engage in the practice! And that learning more is always good! It also helps us to better understand how to select a good breeder and a healthy puppy. Plus which of us doesn't love learning more about puppies? :lol:

And I hope frank theoretical discussions and forums like Bruce's help many who are wavering and thinking they'd like 'just one litter for fun' that this is a terrible idea and damages the breed. Also I hope a better understanding of the involved process makes people realise that 'price shopping' for cavaliers or any breed probably is not a good idea (which is to say that while there are some regional differences in the US, the general regional price should be very similar for well bred puppies. This is very true in the UK -- there should be almost no difference between good breeders just as there's very little in Ireland. People NEED to work with ethical health committed breeders and these are almost entirely show breeders or retired show breeders still active in the breed. You need to pay for the time and costs that go into breeding properly -- we have all seen the costs, financially and emotionally, that come to those who buy from indifferent breeders or brokers and encounter huge health bills or lose their loved dog at age 5 or 6 due to MVD. Support the people who support and cherish the breed -- the proper breeders who SHOULD have some champion dogs of their own or in their direct lineages -- not the cheaper seller who has no health clearances, doesn't breed cavaliers that even look like proper cavaliers, etc. The champions and show background are not a pricey extra, they should be the very basics of choosing a breeder. :)