View Full Version : Fluoride in water
11th March 2008, 04:21 PM
On a recent trip to the dentist, we were given a fluoride gel to put on the kids teeth after they brushed to aide in cavity prevention. Anyway, I started doing research on fluoride and it has opened so many questions and debates!
My question is this, do you give your dog tap water that has the fluoride in it? I have been reading that it can cause all kinds of problems (bone brittleness, cancer, excema (don't think I spelled that right)) in humans AND SMALL DOGS. I also read that Fluoride has been banned in many of the European countries already but the good ol US is stubbornly hanging on to this archaic practice of fluoridating our public water.
We are getting our pup from the breeder in a few weeks and I want to start her out right. Not to mention the kids drinking it, but Isabella will be so little at first. I am now thinking of adding a filter to take out the fluoride. We already use filters to take out the chlorine from our drinking and bathing water.
Am I worrying too much here?:confused:
11th March 2008, 04:53 PM
I am also interested in this issue and is mineral water ok or better for dogs?
11th March 2008, 11:08 PM
This is a good question. We give Dottie bottled water on the recommendation of our breeder, but never really thought about the impact of flouridated water if we ever switched to tap. I think we will stick with what we are doing until I am convinced it is safe. Looking forward to some input also!
12th March 2008, 02:21 AM
From what I understand, the problem with fluoride is that it stays in our systems. Our body (especially small children and animals) tissue retains it. Appearantly the CDC just issued a warning to mothers not to use fluoridated water to mix formula. So I'm thinking Isabella will be smaller than a newborn so it can't be good for her. FYI - From what I've read on the internet, if a company wants to dispose of fluoride (it's a byproduct of fertilizer production) it has to be labeled as TOXIC WASTE and disposed of as such!!:eek: Yikes! I'm going to the health food store tomorrow to see what else I can find out.
12th March 2008, 04:34 AM
I give the dogs what I have been drinking myself for decades: tap water. With flouride.
Have you gone and read why the CDC issued this caution? It actually has nothing at all to do with the retention of fluoride in body tissues. It has to do with some mild discolouration of the teeth that might be caused by the use of fluoride in a minority of children. The main concern is for infants fed nothing BUT formula mixed with water. From the CDC website:
Background: Infant Formula and the Risk for Enamel Fluorosis
The proper amount of fluoride from infancy through old age helps prevent and control tooth decay. In a minority of children, fluoride exposure during the ages when teeth are forming (from birth through age 8 ) also can result in a range of changes within the outer surface of the tooth called enamel fluorosis. Recent evidence suggests that mixing powdered or liquid infant formula concentrate with fluoridated water on a regular basis may increase the chance of a child developing the faint white markings of very mild or mild enamel fluorosis. This occurs on baby and permanent teeth while they are forming under the gums. Once the teeth come into the mouth, they are no longer able to develop this condition. Typically, very mild or mild fluorosis is barely noticeable, if noticed at all. Studies have not shown that teeth are likely to develop more esthetically noticeable forms of fluorosis, even with regular mixing of formula with fluoridated water.
In children younger than 8 years of age, combined fluoride exposure from all sources—water, food, toothpaste, mouth rinse, or other products—contributes to enamel fluorosis. Currently one-third (33%) of children aged 12 to 15 years in the United States have very mild to mild forms of this condition. It is important to understand that some fluoride exposure to developing teeth also plays a long-term role in preventing tooth decay. Parents and health providers should weigh the balance between a child’s risk for very mild or mild enamel fluorosis and the benefit of fluoride for preventing tooth decay and the need for dental fillings.
So basically the CDC is warning about *an aesthetic issue* not a health risk. It is really important to go to the source and find out what is being said on any type of health warning. There are people who think that flouridated water is a health issue. There's very little evidence to support this in my opinion, from reading the medical research out there, but for those interested, there's lots of info out there on the topic. But 1) it has nothing to do with this CDC caution and 2) given the type of stuff anyone can say on the internet, it is wise to actually go read both sides and not rely on whatever anyone ever says on an internet discussion board, this one included. :thmbsup: And it is incorrect that Europe no longer uses flouride. On the contrary, MOST European countries use fluoridation. Many of those which discontinued (4 countries, that I can find) did so in 1971. Some countries or regions these days do not use it because almost all toothpastes contain it anyway. Also many water systems naturally contain fluouride and therefore many water schemes may choose therefore not to add it as it isn't needed. Often it occurs in far higher quantities *naturally* than in the levels added to water by municipal water schemes.
A lot of things have to be labelled toxic in large quantities, and that includes the nitrites used to preserve every type of sandwich meat, sausage and bacon we buy in the supermarket and eat without a thought -- and many substances which are used to IMPROVE health but in large quantities are dangerous. Iodine -- which is routinely added to salt -- also is labelled toxic in large quantities. Yet it is an essential additive for disease prevention especially for those who do not live near coasts and eat a lot of seafood to supply this mineral. So simply because something is labelled toxic when it comes in large bags, means little.
And let's consider what isn't labelled toxic, but can be. Chocolate is toxic to dogs, yet people regularly give it to them anyway even when they are TOLD it is retained for dangerously long periods by dogs and can cause liver failure. This is medical FACT, not a rumour or an exaggeration or a guess. Even small amounts of milk chocolate can cause accelerated heartbeat and effects not dissimilar to heavy cocaine use in humans! And STILL people regularly give their dogs 'just a little', a chocolate cookie or digestive or whatever, arguing 'it has never done them any harm' (but of course they are not able to look at a dog and measure the harm the dog suffers from eating chocolate -- they are internal changes). :sl*p:
Just some different perspective. As much as I love the internet as a powerful tool, I also always say: don't believe everything you read on the internet. And be careful about how information is being presented. And look for both sides of every issue, being cautious of hearsay and vague claims, and weigh them up yourself, especially on health issues.
12th March 2008, 11:24 AM
We give our dogs tap water, the same thing we drink at home. I take bottled water to work, because I'm not sure of the water there.
If you buy bottled water, make sure it says 'reverse osmosis' or some other form of purification on the label. Otherwise it is just tap water here in the US, which could be of lesser quality than what comes out of your faucet!! Well water isn't always safe, either, and should be tested regularly.
12th March 2008, 09:17 PM
I have acutally read and researched both sides. I think there is major cause for concern anytime things are added to our food or water that are in effect unnecessary. Studies have shown that the decrease in cavities has little to do with fluoride in the water and more to do with improved dental hygeine and access to healthcare (as shown by the stats that show the same amount of cavities in areas with AND without fluoride). Fluoride has a toxicity level higher that lead. Lead is not allowed in our water. Don't accept something as safe just because it's always been done that way. If it is so very safe, why are you not supposed to swallow the toothpase? In the U.S. Children's (toddlers) toothpaste routinely comes without fluoride until they are old enough to learn not to swallow it. If your child, or dog for that matter, eats a tube of toothpaste you are supposed to call Poison Control immediately (says so on the tube). The purpose of the CDC announcement was to avoid fluoride poisoning in infants as their acceptable daily dose of the substance is quite low.
Also, please check out floridealert.org for a lengthy list of European countries that DO NOT FLUORIDATE their water. Some never have and others have banned it in recent years. My statement was indeed correct.
FYI, we use Sea Salt to avoid the iodine. We try not to eat the meat with the nitrites and we eat alot of fresh fruits and veggies. You'll be surprised how much better you feel when you don't let this garbage into your system. Once again, just because it's in your food doesn't make it nutritous or even necessary. In our quest for convenience we have made many foods very bad for us.
The point of my question was my concern over the size of a puppy and the quantity that they drink (i.e. the ratio that they drink to their weight). Just trying to make a good decision.
Also, I am an intelligent, well educated person capable of researching a topic of interest from both sides. To imply otherwise is a tad insulting. I will attribute it to the fact that we are of differing opinions on this matter. We should not act as sheep being led to the slaughter but should be free to question that which we don't fully understand. It is only then that true education can really occur.
Absolutely no hard feelings as we can agree to disagree.
15th March 2008, 01:25 AM
Here in Australia we have had flouridated water for decades, probably over 40 years. I have never head of any adverse effects here and the cavity rate in the teeth of the generations that got that water has diminished. We didn't have it when I was growing up and by the time I was in my teens, I had a mouth full of fillings, despite meticulous dental hygiene & access to dental checks every 6 months. However my boys, now in their 30s do not have a single filling between them.
Oh and yes, the dogs drink the flouridated water.
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