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Tamisunnyfla
3rd April 2008, 08:02 PM
Friday on Oprah they will have a behind the scenes look at puppy mills. I know that it will be hard for any animal lover to watch....but please do so!!! She will list ways to get involved so that we can put a stop to this horrible problem. My husband and I have a 2 1/2 yr old tri that we ignorantly purchased from one of these places. Wrigley has had 3 surgeries in his short little life and although has recovered nicely....he should not have had to go through what he has. It has been very exspensive and time consuming. We are lucky that a.) we could afford to handle his care and b.) that I did not work and had the time to devote to him for his recovery. We would not trade him for the world, and would not have it any other way. It breaks my heart to think what would have happened to him if he were placed with people who could not offer him the same. The number of cavs going to foster care and rescues is growing because of the mills. Please watch and do what you can!!!!:paw:

WoodHaven
3rd April 2008, 10:40 PM
I think many of us will be watching

Cathy T
3rd April 2008, 11:20 PM
Am going to tape it, put my two puppies and our little visitor on the bed with me so I can hug them while I cry. I know this will be difficult to watch...but so necessary for the general public to see what goes on behind the scenes of that cute little puppy in the petshop. :(

jld
4th April 2008, 12:41 AM
I think it would just make me so depressed that my weekend would be ruined, but I am soooooooo glad that she is making the public aware of this horrible crises~~~~~judy and dixie

cavlover
4th April 2008, 08:51 PM
I think it would just make me so depressed that my weekend would be ruined, but I am soooooooo glad that she is making the public aware of this horrible crises~~~~~judy and dixie


I am the same as you I want to watch it but I would not be able to get the images out of my head. I do know it is very important to see it so everyone knows just what goes on in those horrid puppy mills, but just the previews made me cry. judy

CVFlagg
5th April 2008, 12:08 AM
My boss is out today, so I took a break and watched it on the TV in her office, I was a hysterical mess. Our office manager even said it would be okay if I needed to go home.

It was such a sad show (especially for me since 2 of mine were puppy mill rescues) but I really think Oprah brought to light a lot of things people were unaware of and she spent half of the show crying herself.

Fingers are crossed that a lot of people were educated today and that change is in the near future!

frecklesmom
5th April 2008, 12:30 AM
No 60 min. show will cover any topic perfectly but I think Oprah's show today made a great attempt to get the facts out re: puppymills and pet stores. It's hard to be completely objective re: how the show was balanced when you have a puppymill fellow of your own. Oprah's tears at the beginning regarding her sweet Cocker did set the stage for sadness.

chloe'sdee
5th April 2008, 12:36 AM
Although the show brought many tears I'm sure,
I'm very happy she did it. Thank You to Oprah
and Lisa Ling for taking the time to raise awareness.
Just by her saying that she will, from now on, only
rescue from a shelter, will change many views on adopting.
People will think twice next time they have the urge to
walk through or shop from a pet store that sells puppies.
An easy thing to do is not shop from pet stores that sell puppies
AT ALL!!! If everyone just did that, what a difference it would make.
There are plenty of businesses to buy pet supplies from.

I'm sure that everyone was able to learn something today.
Very enlightening to our dog loving world.

frecklesmom
5th April 2008, 12:51 AM
Don't think it would hurt at all to email 'thank you's" to Oprah and her staff for this show and to Main Line Rescue for getting this show started. And if anyone has time,email the pet shops and tell them to quit selling puppies-if only one quits it's a victory. Never hurts to turn up the heat esp. since the fire is burning brightly.

BostonGirl
5th April 2008, 01:03 AM
I just got done watching the show from my TiVo and of course cried the whole time. The segment on the shelter in Texas that euthanizes an average of 40 dogs a day seriously actually made me almost throw up. I can't believe how many hopeless dogs lose their lives everyday. It just makes me sick that we as humans actually let it get this bad. As heartbreaking as the show was I hope it was watched by a lot of people and will change some minds forever.

Lynn
5th April 2008, 02:57 AM
I just got done watching the show from my TiVo and of course cried the whole time. The segment on the shelter in Texas that euthanizes an average of 40 dogs a day seriously actually made me almost throw up. I can't believe how many hopeless dogs lose their lives everyday. It just makes me sick that we as humans actually let it get this bad. As heartbreaking as the show was I hope it was watched by a lot of people and will change some minds forever.


I had the same experience....the Texas shelter horrified me...seeing those faces of those dogs going to be pts...could hardly breathe I was crying so hard. I have it on tape and asked hubby if he wanted to watch and he refused! Said he couldn't handle it. I think it's good to see what is going on out in the world and getting angry about it will make you act...

I hope this show will help to bring change. I feel like I need to find a way to help......

hbmama
5th April 2008, 03:24 AM
I too just watched the DVR playback. Oprah has such a wide audience and her realm of influence is unsurpassed. I am sure that there will be an impact here. Puppyfarms have been a horrid, dirty secret for so long!:mad: The time has come for people to stand up and take action by refusing to enter or buy any merchandise at pet stores that sell puppies. This is the only way to put them out of business.

Unfortunately, cash crop breeders are also taking full advantage of selling off the internet, and also brokering/selling purebred puppies under the guise of phoney "rescue" groups. When you see alot of young, purebred puppies, predominately male, coming up for "an adoption fee" listed by obscure "rescue" groups on sites such as petfinder, assume the worst.

I was pleased that they ran the comment from AKC about the good, responsible breeders out there, and that those breeders love their dogs and care about where they are placed. Oprah also emphasized that there are of course many, many dogs waiting for loving homes while in shelters or legitimate rescues.

Tough to watch, but thankful that the message is out. Thanks Oprah!

chloe92us
5th April 2008, 05:36 PM
Okay, this seems a little odd to me....After watching the Oprah show yesterday, of course now I am parusing Petfinder.com for any Cavaliers. So I found this "rescue" group that does admit that their dogs have been rescued from puppy mills, but check out their listings! All the dogs are posing on silky blankets just like in a pet store. And I find it interested that most of the dogs adoption fee is $375 (pretty high anyway for a rescue), but there is a dog they are claiming is a full-bred Cavalier (although it is black and white?) and the dogs adoption fee is $650!!!!

This disgusts me. I think it is a pet store or breeder disguised as a rescue group!

Please Note: moderator removed the link to the site because it is potentially libellous:

People are welcome to make a post and ask any interested members to contact them PRIVATELY for further information on an individual or a kennel or a suspicious circumstance or a website.

People are not ever permitted to make a post naming individuals or kennels publicly in a post to the board that raises questions about or makes allegations against the individual or kennel. Nor can you post a website address and make a negative implication.

niki
5th April 2008, 05:47 PM
This disgusts me. I think it is a pet store or breeder disguised as a rescue group!


There is an article in a UK magazine this month 'Dog's Today' about this type of thing - rescues that are charging people large fees for dogs apparently rescued from elsewhere, unvaccinated, not neutered, and no return or after sales advice provided. They are saying that some of these places are actually getting dogs to order and people who wholeheartedly believe they are doing a good turn by taking on a rescue dog are unwittingly purchasing from a shop or mill. It certainly made for interesting reading :mad:

shippers
5th April 2008, 06:38 PM
Does anyone know where I could possibly watch Oprah's show on the internet? I'm in UK and as far as I can see this was screened in the US. I was hoping I could get it online. Thanks

chloe92us
5th April 2008, 06:54 PM
It's not the video, but a very good summary article...

http://www2.oprah.com/tows/pastshows/200804/tows_past_20080404.jhtml?promocode=HP41

Below the picture of the labs, the story starts...you can read the summary of the show and it really highlights the most important parts pretty thoroughly. Maybe check YouTube as well.

Cathy Moon
5th April 2008, 07:47 PM
Does anyone know where I could possibly watch Oprah's show on the internet? I'm in UK and as far as I can see this was screened in the US. I was hoping I could get it online. Thanks
Here is a transcript of the show:
http://www2.oprah.com/world/global/slide/200804/global_20080404_101.jhtml

We recorded the show on our VCR yesterday, and I'm planning to watch it later this weekend.

Wow, when I googled 'Oprah puppy mills' just now, you wouldn't believe the chatter!!!! Everyone's talking about it - thank you Oprah!!!

shippers
5th April 2008, 07:53 PM
Thanks for the links I have had a look at the trailer. Good on Oprah for highlighting this cruelty to innocent animals. Hopefully it'll go someway to getting these places closed down.

Karlin
6th April 2008, 12:41 AM
Thanks for the various links to the transcripts etc.

Death rates are very high in most shelters -- on average in the US, 70% of dogs and cats are put down. In Ireland, some pounds have a 95%+ pts rate and do not allow rescues to help rehome dogs! :eek:

For more info on the Irish situation, here is pound info from lobby group ANVIL: http://www.anvilireland.ie/fulcrum.html?ep=36

Here's a table for some destruction rates -- note that Limerick Pound destroyed 100% of dogs that came in in 1995!! And over 95% in previous years. This is truly nauseating.


This table shows the scandal of the situation we are in. Limerick City leads the way in the destruction stakes with a 97% destruction rate! They are closely followed by Mayo 96%, Tipperary South 95%, Tipperary North 90%, Galway County 89%, and Kerry on 88%. What this means, in the case of Limerick City is, almost every dog that comes through the pound door, does not make it out alive.

On Petfinder rescues -- there are definitely some rescue that are merely fronts for mills and sell off excess puppies as 'rescues'.

That said, there are legit rescues and $350-650 is NOT an excessive amount for a rescue to charge for a rescue cavalier that may have needed considerable vet care before it is rehomed. Lucky Star charges at least around $600-700 per cavalier, last I checked. And why shouldn't a rescue raise its operating costs be rehoming purebred dogs at close to the going 'market' rate? I would really like to change the perception that a rescue is a bargain bin pet (because often, that dog will be seen as disposable in future as it didn't cost much to begin with :( ). I charge on average, €200 for a cavalier -- which is around $350 -- and I still operate at a loss (which comes out of my pocket) -- and that's a lot more than many other Irish rescues and UK rescues charge, but I don't get state funding or many donations outside of board members and homing fees are what enable me to do rescue at all (journalists are not particularly well paid! :lol:). My costs on Sam, currently in foster, are over $600 for his basic vet check, a complicated neuter to remove his retained, cancerous testicle, a lab biopsy to determine if it was cancerous, etc. In other words, I will lose $400-500 when he is homed as a new home will not be likely to offer to cover his full expenses. The choice was to pay, or to have him put down. Rescue costs money, usually more than is taken in in grants or donations. I charge the regular price on cavaliers that don't cost me as much to give vet care to, so that I can offset costs for a needy cavalier like Sam. This would be the norm for rescue.

hbmama
6th April 2008, 01:03 AM
I agree that the adoption fees from legitimate rescues are essential to help defray the costs involved in transportation, housing, vet visits, meds, food...the list goes on and on. These fees don't begin to cover everything and most rescuers take the hit for expenses.

Another very important reason to charge a fee is to weed out those who would portray themselves as good, forever homes for these dogs, and then turn around and sell them off or give them away because they have no investment to worry about. Also, if you can't afford the rescue fee (which is in my mind beyond reasonable) you certainly cannot afford to properly feed and vet the dog in question.

Karlin
6th April 2008, 01:11 AM
Also, if you can't afford the rescue fee (which is in my mind beyond reasonable) you certainly cannot afford to properly feed and vet the dog in question.

I regularly get people applying for a rescue 'because they are too expensive to buy' and over here you can get them in the small ads for the same that I charge for rescues. :sl*p: Given that a couple of vet visits will equal the homing fee, that kind of home always worries me -- it is like they think they are buying a statue that will sit on a shelf, not a dog that IS going to have vet costs.

In between food, vet visits, grooming costs, toys, accessories; the average cost for keeping a dog easily will hit close to $1000 a year -- and of course the 'toys and accessories' category may have no limits... :)

I wish shelters and pounds would require payment for a neuter and chip before homing though rather than hoping a new home will do these two things.

Cathy T
6th April 2008, 02:02 AM
I finished watching the show this afternoon. Kudos to Lisa Ling and Oprah for doing an excellent job!! I love that they did not portray breeders as horrible people and suggested that if people do choose to go to a breeder that they research them carefully. They also pointed out that they don't get breeders (I'll say reputable breeders here ;)) dog in shelters because reputable breeders will take their dogs back 6 or 7 years later. And that's the way it should be. A responsible breeder is responsible for the puppies they produce no matter what the circumstances.

Rescue fees. I've not placed a Cavalier through rescue for under $400. The money exchanged for a rescue goes into a rescue fund. It's not lining anyone's pockets. That fund is then used for future rescues. The number one thing I see with rescues is dental issues...and those aren't cheap.

I get extremely frustrated with people who write inquiring about getting a rescue because "the price from a breeder is ridiculous" and am very blunt with them. I tell them explicitly and directly that if they think they are going to save money by getting a Cavalier through rescue they couldn't be more mistaken. Dogs come into rescue for a reason.....normally emotional or physical reasons. I did get the inquiry from a woman who said she just couldn't see paying $2,000 for a Cavalier from a breeder. When I questioned her on it she said she'd much rather spend that kind of money rescuing a Cavalier. Needless to say....that moved her to the top of my list. :luv: Good answer!!

arasara
6th April 2008, 04:02 AM
I loved Oprah's show and I hope it really reaches a lot of people.

I have seen lots of rescue cavaliers on petfinder for anywhere up to $750. The way I understand it is that Cavaliers are a very loved breed and will generally get adopted very quickly. Lots of rescue groups will bump up the cost to offset costs for their other dogs (such as large black dogs) that don't get adopted out as easily... it either helps for that, or it's put back, as Cathy said, for dogs who come in with more serious issues (remember, some of these dogs need lots of vet work before being able to be adopted out). I have no problem "paying" $750 for a dog ~ afterall, it's a tax deductible donation :) .. hopefully the extra cash will help another dog to find a forever home ;)

chloe92us
6th April 2008, 05:12 AM
The point of my comment about the adoption fees FROM THE PLACE I WAS TALKING ABOUT was that all of the fees were $375 EXCEPT the one for the Cavalier which was $650. Point being, that group did not appear to be a true rescue group, but appeared to be in it for the $$, and not only because of the fee structure but mainly because of the marketing on the website.

There is no question that rescue dogs cost a lot of money to care for medically and while in foster care. IF I were to rescue a dog, of course I would expect to pay an adoption fee, and I would understand if the fee for the dog were based on the medical treatment it had received.

However, since I have not rescued a dog and really have never paid much attention to the adoption fees until now, it looked as if the average adoption fees ran between $250-350, so comparatively $375 & $650 seemed high to me.

I admire and respect anyone involved in rescue. I believe the majority of people who do adopt dogs ILO buying one from a breeder also have the best of intentions. The reality is, though, that most people would not choose to adopt a dog that would require hundreds to thousands of dollars in medical care. That is the reason rescue groups exist! That is why the donations and outside funding are so important!

If all dogs were $500+ there would be many fewer dog owners in the world. That's just a reality. We (on this board) are not the average dog owner. Most of us have spent thousands of dollars on the PURCHASE of our dogs. Add to that a Puppia for every season, premium dog food, treats, designer beds & collars, and basic medical care...and eventually and often...above-basic medical care.

My overall point is that, yes, there should be an adoption fee for rescues...but it should not be $600+ (IMHO) or else there will be fewer people to rescue them.

JeanKC
6th April 2008, 06:14 AM
Jean and I watched the Oprah show this afternoon. :(

I was a bit disappointed that Oprah didn't drop a check for a million or so on the rescue guy... but I suspect he'll see some donations rolling in.