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shippers
4th April 2008, 02:19 PM
I have heard that crates are the best way forward with housetraining but I'm just wondering what you did during the night? I could not imagine a 10-12 week old pup managing to hold on to go the toilet in a crate during the night. With our 12 month old we didn't use a crate and she went in the kitchen overnight. When she first came home at 12 weeks she did have a few accidents on the floor for a few weeks but then it soon stopped. What would it be like in a crate this second time round?

Karlin
4th April 2008, 03:01 PM
Well, the normal approach is not to let puppies go inside anywhere inside at night, ever -- for the first week or few weeks the advice is always to get up and take the puppy out around 3am or so. By allowing them to go inside, it just prolongs the whole housetraining process and sets the example that it is fine to go inside. To then expect them to grasp the concept that they can't go inside in the day but only at night; then that they can;t go inside at all, obviously is extra confusing for the dog.

By 12 weeks the vast majority puppies don't need to go out at night anyway, mainly because they have been well since started on housetraining. Many don't need a nighttime break even at 8 or 9 weeks. Good breeders tend to already have puppies well past the need to go outside at night phase by 12 weeks... so I'd talk to your breeder as I can;t imagine this would still be necessary at such an age.

Basically the rule is to take your puppy out in the wee hours anyway for the first few nights while they adjust to new surroundings. And keep the crate where you can hear your puppy -- eg next to the bed -- so that if the pup does need to go out, it will wake you and you can take him/her out. :thmbsup:

Brian M
4th April 2008, 03:17 PM
Hi
Exactly as Karlin says my three have all slept in individual crates since they all came to live with me from the age of 8 weeks and never had a problem with any,they all treat their own crates as their own little secure doggy house, but occasionally they swop about or all in one to have a snooze but at night time they all go into their own private house.

Daisy's Mom
4th April 2008, 04:07 PM
We got Daisy at 11 weeks. For the first few months, we had her crate right beside our bed so we could hear her if she needed to go out (whimpering or scratching). Actually, it was only about the first 1-2 weeks or so (if I'm remembering correctly) that she "asked" to go out in the middle of the night. After that, she slept through. She was such a good little pup in that way. She's always been happy in her crate at night.

I thought the first night would be bad, because she was away from her doggy family for the first time, but a couple of little whimpers during the night was it. Each time she did it, I took her outside and loved on her. If I absolutely knew she didn't need to go out (like if she whimpered 5 minutes after I put her in her crate), I would put my fingers through the crate, stroke her and gently say "no." That seemed to work just fine. She would settle back down then and go to sleep. Poor baby probably just wanted to know she wasn't alone.

ruby2
4th April 2008, 04:34 PM
well now i have no crate!!! I asked a while ago about training ruby and the site said to get a crate etc and train to each room. I have been holding off on the crate for the moment, i went to the vet and they didnt agree but thats beside the point.
What i wanted to say was that ruby wasnt great but as a pup yes we had the old fashioned paper down and she did her wee and poo on it like they used to do years ago in my mothers time and i cleaned up after her and it got smaller and smaller by the weeks going on. She is now nearly 5 months and for the last two weeks she has been dry every night. She is in the downstairs bathroom with the gate up at the door and i have been bringing her outside before i go to bed and she will do wee and poo for me where i want her to do it and she will then get her treat and come in and be dry for the night.
Thats just a different light on it! I know some people wont agree with not using the crate but years ago there was no crate and dogs were trained fine then. A friend of mine is a very well known breeder and has no crates. As i said its just another light on the subject. And she has been in the house in the kitchen for hours at a time in the last few days just lying in a bed and not wee inside.:oops: Sorry to disagree with other people but no harm to have different opinion im sure you will all agree. Ruby is very loved just has no crate. She goes to the school with me in the car etc. She is doing great.:)

Bobby
4th April 2008, 04:41 PM
I bought Bobby a crate last week to break his bad toilet habits. While he loves sleeping in it when the door is open, he is not at all happy with the crate closed. He whines and whines until he gets out. I think he feels like he is being punished. We definitely can't leave the door closed at night. If you were to keep him enclosed in the crate all night though, how does he get a drink if he wants to? Do you place water in the crate as well?

Daisy's Mom
4th April 2008, 05:14 PM
I have a clip-on water bowl for Daisy's crate. For some dogs, though, that may make it harder for them to hold "it" all night if they drink too much. At night, when she was younger, I would put a barely little bit of water in it, as I didn't want her drinking a lot and then have to go outside during the night. Now, I don't worry about how much and keep it generally pretty full.

shippers
4th April 2008, 05:18 PM
Thanks to everyone for your advice. The breeder has all her dogs crated at night but I haven't yet asked about the toileting. I know all the dogs she had went out together when we were there and the puppies followed. It just concerns me that if I start getting up to the puppy with every little whimper she will learn that if she is noisy we will get up and give her attention. I have no problem with waking to take her out if need be but will this continue forever as this is what the pup will have learned to do? At the moment Sally is silent through the night and never ever has an accident. We let her out at 10-11pm and she does her business then we don't here from her until we get up about 7am or even later. I think perhaps the best thing is for me to discuss with the breeder and see what training will already be established. I want to do the best for both Sally and the new puppy but I also want to think long term and not make any mistakes.

TillyTommy
4th April 2008, 05:21 PM
Ian Dunbar has a fantastic book out called "Before & After Getting Your Puppy" worth a read I think:)

Moviedust
5th April 2008, 03:16 AM
I have no problem with waking to take her out if need be but will this continue forever as this is what the pup will have learned to do?

If you use appropriate responses to the night time outings, you shouldn't have a problem. As the pup gets older, its bladder grows and it develops stronger control over elimination muscles. Generally, a well exercised dog will want to sleep through the night.

Generally, if the pup whines to go out, you take the pup out. If the pup eliminates, you treat/praise. Personally, I would praise gently and calmly; I would pick the pup up and cuddle it, whereas during the day I would jump and be all crazy. The gentler praise helps to keep the pup from getting all wound up. I'd bring the pup in and put it back into the crate, and the pup would calm down and go back to sleep.

If the pup does NOT eliminate after a reasonable amount of time, I would not talk to it AT ALL. The pup would be immediately returned to the kennel. There should be NO interaction between you and the pup, so the dog learns that there's nothing to gain from pretending to need to go out.

Caraline
5th April 2008, 04:42 AM
Yep what most everybody else said. I got to bed pretty late, so a new puppy gets taken out to the toilet last thing before I go to bed & then then I take him out again in the small hours of the morning.


He whines and whines until he gets out. I think he feels like he is being punished. We definitely can't leave the door closed at night. If you were to keep him enclosed in the crate all night though, how does he get a drink if he wants to? Do you place water in the crate as well?

Bobby have you tried covering your boy's crate at night? This may help. You've got to be strong with the whining. If you ignore him for a night or two, the problem will go away.

Re water: I have always left water in the crates at night (in a dispenser bottle) for my dogs, but I know some people do like to take water away sometime in the night.

Seraphine
5th April 2008, 08:11 AM
I've never left water in my dog's crate over the night, or the day for that matter since he doesn't have to stay in it for long during daytime. When he's in the crate, he's supposed to sleep, and he knows that. He even sleeps the few hours he has to be in it at daytime. He's slept every night in his crate since I took him home from the breeder's and it was only the first two nights that he whined for maybe 10 minutes before falling asleep. I took him out once a night for three weeks and after that he's slept through the night with only a few exceptions that were related to teething issues and not enough exercise before bedtime. Overall I love the crate, it's by far the best thing I've ever bought for him.

Cathryn
5th April 2008, 12:45 PM
Already some sound advice given, and Yes, covering a crate with a nice heavy blanket does indeed work wonders! As for leaving water in a crate at night, they basically are asleep all night so shouldn't need a drink, plus with a puppy there is a possibilty of them knocking the water all over the bedding too, as long as they can have a drink when they get up in the morning it isn't a problem!