PDA

View Full Version : Need some help: Texas and Minnesota Breeders



isabelephant
22nd April 2008, 07:51 PM
Hey everyone! I am on the puppy hunt! I need some help from you guys who have experience with Texas breeders. I live in Texas but have found that some breeders in Minnesota are offereing a 5 year MVD garantee--is that legit? I would have to ship but any experience with these breeders would also be appreciated. I have looked on the appropriate lists (the clubs with reputable breeders following AKC guidelines) and made calls/emails but I just have trust issues and nomatter how much I like someone, since I am afraid I am going to be mislead. I guess it's just a stage I am going through since I have been too trusting and naive in the past and am now paronoid...Anyways I'd rather have a PM from a non-invested third party to give me the inside scoop. If you guys could PM me with info on the breeder and the health and temperment of your puppy/dog etc--the whole experience that would be awesome! I would appreciate any info you have on breeders to AVOID as well. Also I've found that price is an issue with the best breeders. I've done my research and understand why it is so high but $2000 is my limit this time around. (I have a husband to deal with;) )I have read all of the info in the library here and more on how to find a breeder, I just really want to hear from people's actual experiences whether they were good, bad or questionable. Oh, and remember not to post it here as it will be deleted! :)Thanks!

WoodHaven
22nd April 2008, 08:36 PM
1st of all, you can't guarantee that any dog, especially a cavalier won't get a murmur by age 5. What are they guaranteeing -- will they give you your money back? or do they expect you to give them your dog (that you've had for years) and they'll give you another? I would want to know EXACTLY what they are backing and what they'll do with that guarantee.

I can state this here-- it is generic enough.

Bruce H
22nd April 2008, 09:04 PM
I've seen a couple of those contracts with the 5 year guarantee. All I can say is get a copy of that gaurantee and read it VERY, VERY carefully. Then imagine what you have to do for the gaurantee to be honored. From what I've heard, if you miss even one small, insignificant step, the guarantee is void even if you thought you could return your dog for another. They count on that.

isabelephant
22nd April 2008, 09:26 PM
oh, when I said don't post here I meant if you were naming names. I didn't want someone to go through all the trouble and have it deleted--maybe I shouldn't have said that :) Yeah, that's my thinking too about the garantee...I mean, who would want to give up their dog after they have it for years, even months! I guess I didn't know if it was just sales tactic or a statement of goodwill saying "we are confident because we have been doing this for years and our dogs are long-living" I don't think I would be able to give my dog up, I was just wondering if you guys have heard of this and if these people are reputable or not. I know there are no garantees, I like everybody here probably just wish there were...

Nancy
22nd April 2008, 10:32 PM
so what DOES the guarantee say? Also, where did you find the breeder? The fact they will ship a small puppy is a red flag. Although there are a handful of "good" breeders that will, to me , it's like putting an infant child in a carseat in a box and entrusting strangers to make sure they arrive safely and aren't traumatized.

hbmama
22nd April 2008, 11:27 PM
I'm with Nancy regarding shipping. Most good breeders will not put their pups in cargo to ship to just anyone ESPECIALLY without ever having met them face to face and seeing who their precious pup is going to live with. Not to mention it could be very very traumatic to a puppy. That said, as previously stated, NO breeder could ever GUARANTEE that all their pups will not develop MVD in 5 years. If you contact reputable breeders in your area I think you will find that they will be able to show you health certificates from the parents and the previous generations on the pedigree, but will never make such a claim. Anything can happen with health, good breeding just increases the odds that you will get a healthy puppy.

Fly by night breeders are always trying to come up with catch phrases to reel in customers for a quick sale. They KNOW that buyers wouldn't anymore give their beloved animal back to "trade" for another:( if the dogs health failed within that 5 year period, assuming they are still in business under the same kennel name.

I am sure you can do some research and find a great breeder somewhere withing a days driving distance so when the time comes, you can meet each other, and see how the dogs are kept. Please don't get over anxious. Take this time to do your homework. You might also go to area dog shows. Introduce yourself to Cavalier breeders and be patient. We waited 13 months for our girl. If you aren't picky about color or sex, it could be much sooner.

Good luck in your search!!!

isabelephant
23rd April 2008, 07:13 PM
I think there are reputable breeders out there who ship (I may fly in anyway) but I am worried about the gaurantee thing and the fact that the price is lower by about $800 (two good things but almost seem too good to be true!)Does the fact that both the parents are akc champions and they do the yearly testing/certifications specialists and have references mean they are reputable? okay, so what about houston area. Anybody with experience with/knowlege of any of these breeders I'd love a PM!:)

frecklesmom
23rd April 2008, 07:43 PM
The first place I would start with inquiries is the Houston CKCS club and their website is

http://www.cavaliersofhouston.org

Bridam
23rd April 2008, 08:42 PM
The first place I would start with inquiries is the Houston CKCS club and their website is

http://www.cavaliersofhouston.org


I bought both my cavs from breeders on that website. One of my girls has sm really bad and other issues and the response I got from the breeder when I kindly informed her shocked me. The other breeder I would highly recommend. If anyone wants to pm me, I can share my experiences. My friend's aunt in San Antonio is also a breeder of champion cavs--I can get that info to anyone as well.

CavyMom
23rd April 2008, 09:07 PM
I think there are reputable breeders out there who ship (I may fly in anyway) but I am worried about the gaurantee thing and the fact that the price is lower by about $800 (two good things but almost seem too good to be true!)Does the fact that both the parents are akc champions and they do the yearly testing/certifications specialists and have references mean they are reputable? okay, so what about houston area. Anybody with experience with/knowlege of any of these breeders I'd love a PM!:)
I agree with you, there probably are BUT not without extensive screening, and at least several phone conversations - I know as a breeder and a rescuer, I'm very selective where my dogs go, and while occasionally I will allow someone out of area adopt on of my "kids", if I do, I have several conversations on the phone with them before hand, and I still won't allow shipping - If someone can't physically drive to pick up the dog, I'll have them make arrangements to either fly in and pick the dog up and take it back in the cabin with them, or pay for a plane ticket for me, and I'll fly with the dog to them. Shipping can be tramatic for the dog - But especially when you're talking a puppy that hasn't been completly vaccinated - Despite health certificates, you have no control over what your dog is placed next to, and who's to say some unethical vet didn't just sign a paper without even seeing the dog, or someone forged a health certificate, and the dog in the crate next door is haboring distemper, or parvo, or who knows what? Plus who knows how some of these air line companies will handle the puppy, those are the reasons I personally choose NEVER, even if I know the person getting the dog, to EVER fly a dog in cargo.

As for AKC CH, yearly health testing, and references - Those definatly give the breeder a leg up BUT make SURE it's accurate - I know some breeders who will claim health testing, but can't actually provide any documentation to support claims (sadly, I'd had several breeders fall under that catigory that I've checked into :( ), and some will only give references of the most satisfied buyers, so while those are definatly some good things to look for, don't just take their word for it - Really make sure they can support the claims they make!!!!

Karlin
24th April 2008, 01:43 AM
To be fair, no one currently knows exactly how to avoid SM. It is on all evidence extremely widespread in the breed and probably affects up to 70% of cavaliers. Completely asymptomatic parents can produce badly affected offspring. Breeders are only just beginning to look at screening programs. There are very few breeders I would actually blame for producing SM-affected pups -- sadly they tend to be the ones who HAVE screened or know enough to know they have bred dogs producing affected offspring yet are the ones who have knowingly allowed their SM-affected studs or bitches to be bred (and sadly, I know of such people).

Personally, I would not now consider breeders that are not MRI-screening breeding dogs, that cannot produce certificates for the grades on their dogs. There's good initial evidence that having at least one A-grade parent significantly lowers the risk of symptomatic puppies and I'd be looking for this as a minimum (having one and probably, two dogs with symptomatic SM). For more info see: http://sm.cavaliertalk.com/breeding/breeding/puppies.html


but I am worried about the gaurantee thing and the fact that the price is lower by about $800

Serious RED FLAGS as far as I am concerned. I would want these people to have strong recommendations from REPUTABLE show breeders, and to be active members of either CKCSC or ACKCSC... and I bet you will find they are not active in either.

I'd really recommend only going with breeders from one of the club sites as a *bare minimum*. AKC is just too vague. You want ACKCSC or CKCSC as the initial starting point.