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AussieCav
11th May 2008, 05:50 AM
Hi everyone i'm having a bit of trouble toilet training Bomber my cavalier king charles spaniel, My sisters chihuahuas were easier then Bomber. We caan't have him runing around the living area at all the little bugger pees while walking or runing so he doesn't get told NO and put outside. His fine when his locked up in a baby cot will not make any messes and lets me know when he needs to go. When his allowed to run around the living area with supervision he will not let me know if he needs to go and doesn't show any signs of wanting to go eg like sniffing,walking around,He could be playing with his toys or the cats and pee while still playing, We don't even know his done it until its to late. He knows he has to go outside to do his buisness but his to lazy to go outside. He could be a warm night and he will still do it inside, It looks like i have to keep him locked up in the baby cot his whole life as he will not learn. My parents arre getting sick and tired of him doing this and said if he hasn't stoped by time his 6 months old he is to stay outside 24/7. He won't use a kitty litter box with newspaper put in, or just newspaper on the ground. Everytime he is caught doing a pee inside we tell him NO in a firm voice and take him outside then clean the mess up while his outside. I take him outside every 10-15minutes throughout the day specially after his awaken from a nap,after food and playtime, Bomber gets put to bed at 11pm and sleeps till 8am without needing to go to the toilet. My parents said they have never seen a dog pee so much i don't think he has UTI. His on antibiotics now for his bottom as it is sore. i'm at a loss of whatt to do when his locked up he will let us know when he needs to go outside but let him have any run in the house he will just pee standing up,walking,runing or playing where ever he likes.

cy1266
11th May 2008, 07:41 AM
I'm not sure how old Bomber is, but housebreaking takes a lot of time and patience. There are a ton of threads on the board that you can read that should help...there's also a great book that is always recommended, "How to Housebreak Your Dog in 7 Days" (?) by Shirely Kalstone (sp?). Good luck, he'll eventually learn! :thmbsup:

AussieCav
11th May 2008, 08:17 AM
Bomber is 14 weeks old.

TillyTommy
11th May 2008, 10:14 AM
He is still a baby. I think your parents expectations are way out. You really should get the book suggested and have a read and more importantly make sure your parents read it too.
It really is early days - he needs more time

Caraline
11th May 2008, 11:34 AM
Hi AussieCav, welcome to the forum.

Ok, I am going to shoot straight from the hip here. There are a whole heap of misconceptions floating around the AussieCav household! So lets work thorough this post. :)

At only 14 weeks, Bomber is still a baby. At this age he still doesn't have great bladder control, he can't possibly know all that is expected of him, he has a short attention span & from the way you describe his antics in the house, it doesn't sound like his toilet training is particularly well focused. Though you think he is telling you when he is in his pen that he needs to go to the toilet, in fact you are simply reading the signs. What is happening when he is playing outside of his pen is that you are unable to read the signs, and that is understandable.


He knows he has to go outside to do his buisness but his to lazy to go outside.

No he doesn't. People think that dogs know things because they look chastened when they are scolded, but the reality is that the dog is just reacting to an angry voice.

If your parents are serious about making Bomber live outside all the time, then I would seriously consider finding him a new home, as a CKCS is not a dog for outdoor living, not even in mild Australia. Unlike many other breeds they were bred as a lap-dog. The backyard is no place for them. If they think he will be completely toilet trained by 6 months, they they are likely going to be disappointed, because accidents can happen all through a dogs life.

First up, I would get Bomber thoroughly checked over by a vet.

Then you have a heap of reading to do from this link here http://board.cavaliertalk.com/showthread.php?t=11857 Karlin has put together a wealth of information & sources regarding toilet training.

I really hope you can work through this, because it would be a very sad little dog that would be eventually living in your backyard if he is banished from the house.

AussieCav
11th May 2008, 12:37 PM
thank you everyone i have printed out alot of them fact sheets on housebreaking and will sit down and read them when i have time.

wildandcrazyguys
12th May 2008, 05:32 AM
My 2 cents : Like they said, he's still a baby...would you expect a 14 week old baby to go potty in a toilet? that's how i've had to explain to my family when my boys have had accidents. We have 2 boys (almost 8 months old) and just yesterday they were playing and one of them pooped in the living room..it was my fault, I was in the middle of doing something and didn't realize that it was time for him to go out. Their accidents have gotten a lot fewer but that's why we took up the carpet in the house we just bought..just in case. I hope all of the info helps!

Ashley
12th May 2008, 11:45 AM
We got Holly when she was 14 weeks old and although she was on her way to being fully housetrained, she was probably 'thrown-off' a little as we actually live in a flat. I thought it would be a major problem, but it wasnt at all. We made sure that we took her out for a wee walk every hour and a half. We walked her EVERYTIME she woke up from a sleep, and EVERYTIME we let her out the crate (I often put her in her crate if I was going to shower, and John-David was not home).
You could try setting a wee alarm on your phone or watch or cooker that will go off every hour or so and you can pop him outside.
When he pees you could try saying something like "pee" or some other word and he'll then see it as a command... think someone already mentioned that.

It does take a lot of time and patience and just remember not to scold him, and remind your parents not to either if he has a wee accident in the house. If that happens he will go and do it somewhere hidden from you guys!:cool::)

Holly is 9 months now and hasnt had an accident in the house for a long time yet. :D

Chloe Meister
28th May 2008, 04:01 PM
I have read many posts on this forum about training Cavaliers but I still do not understand why our dog is so difficult to house train. I have purchased, read, and practiced the methods in Shirley Kalstone's book. Just yesterday we had Chloe outside and she did both of her business requirements quite promptly. We brought her back into the room that she is allowed to be in and within 5 minutes she peed when we turned our back for several seconds. It was not a large pee like she couldn't hold it and we have had her vet checked and she is fine.

She is now 8 months old, is one of the most lovable, intelligent dogs I have ever owned but is simply not trustworthy in the house. Our methods of training our previous dogs, 2 scnauzers, poodle, Bichon were very similar to what Shirley describes, crate training, lots of praise, etc. with great results so we are experienced. I would be lying if I said that this problem has not made my wife and I pretty dismayed over our breed choice for our new dog. Will she ever get it??? I am honestly starting to wonder ???

Karlin
28th May 2008, 06:47 PM
The answer is in your post. :)


We brought her back into the room that she is allowed to be in and within 5 minutes she peed when we turned our back for several seconds.

I think probably there have been other times when a back was turned, Chloe was allowed to run around unwatched for a few moments or more, and she has had an accident. As far as she is concerned, she doesn't know this is an accident because someone has not made absolutely sure she consistently never, ever, ever has the opportunity to make a mistake like this. Every single mistake is a step backwards because it says to her once more that it's OK to go inside. Indeed if the inside mistakes haven't been thoroughly cleaned with enzymatic cleaner, she very likely simply smells the spots where she has gone before and goes inside again at the same spots.

Generally, effective housetraining (especially with a more difficult dog) requires 100% supervision 100% of the time until you KNOW the dog 'has it'. Dogs like children are all different and learn at different paces. Eight months is actually not that old and I had regular accidents from my dogs at that age. And you know when they happened? You guessed it -- every single time *I* took my eye off the ball (or rather, Jaspar or Leo! :lol:) and made the mistake of assuming I had a housetrained dog. It is a common problem and just takes focus to resolve -- but focus on the owner's part so the dog truly learns the message you are trying to get through. If you routinely (or even just occasionally!) look away and turn your back on her or let her wander around she probably has gone many, many times inside when you haven't noticed, making it very difficult for her to figure out why sometimes you want her to go out, and sometimes let (yes, she is being allowed!) to go inside.

It is very important that you go back to step one (as Kalstone says) and make absolutely sure that she is never, ever, ever given the opportunity to make a mistake again. Don't bring her in and turn your back. If need be, bring her in and crate her, put her in a puppy pen, on your lap or tethered to you with you *watching* her so that she can be carried outside at the first inkling that she might go again.

Also if she was checked weeks or months ago by the vet it is worth having her checked again for a UTI. Little pees like that, right after going, are very typical fo a UTI and if she has had a low level infection for some time, she will be consistently having such small accidents. Vets also sometimes miss an infection.

So: some very focused vigilance shoudl help this problem very quickly. :) If you are feeling she was a mistake though, and are truly feeling so aggravated by her that you are considering another dog, and feel she isn't the dog for you, please talk to club breed rescue so that she can be placed elsewhere. :thmbsup: This can be a source of real frustration and for anyone who feels it is no longer manageable, let rescue make sure she will be homed where someone is fully aware that housetraining is a problem, so she doen.t get passed along or handed in to a shelter, as sometimes happens. :flwr:

Chloe Meister
28th May 2008, 10:11 PM
Carlin, Thanks for your thoughts. First, we would never give up Chloe. We love her dearly except for the house training issue. From my own experience and from talking to others it really seems to me that in many cases CKCS are more difficult to house train than most other breeds. It is just very puzzling that she is so smart in so many ways except in this area. Please assure me that she will get it some day!! LOL

chloe92us
29th May 2008, 06:23 PM
I would have to agree that CKCS are, in my experience, more difficult to housetrain than other breeds (I have two, and my first took a good year to train and we're still working on #2 and he is almost 9 months!).

However, it is most likely that my life situation is different now than it was when I had other puppies (I now have a child!) :lotsaluv: and therefore have less time to properly manage and train a puppy. I've just learned that I have to get over the guilt of crating him when I can't watch him and know that it is not a punishment, but a training tool.

jgponder
26th February 2009, 10:13 PM
I have a 3yr old foster from a mill that has spent all of her life in a cage. I have been unable to put a leash on her and she just goes nuts and refuses to budge. I have been able to put it on and let you just walk with it dragging but once I pick it up she stops and will not go. Food is not a motivator. Second problem is the potty training. I have read the articles here and elsewhere and most are written for puppies, not older dogs who have very bad habits to break. Are they handled the same as the puppies and you just forget about their last 3yrs and were confined to a cage? I do take her out on a regular schedule and she will go each time, but sometimes comes right back in and goes again, so no regular schedule and drinks very little water & food. I will get the book How to train in 7 days if you think it will work with this type of dog and break old habits. I just need to know I am doing this right and we just need a lot of patience. Would welcome any suggestions.

Jane

SuzRN
28th February 2009, 06:51 AM
I downloaded an ebook on "How to train my puppy, fasttrack" read parts of it, tried parts of it, and here is what I have found is working for Vivi. I use the bell on the door, took her to the door every 30-45 min told her go out to piddle first couple of days kicked the bell myslef, then picked up her paw and hit the bell with it. Tried taking her out on a lesh but she would just sit there, so either walk her out or carry her to where i want her to go. Tell her to go, kind of hurry her, when she goes praise her tons and give her a treat outside then let her in. In about 6 days she rang it on her own.(at 13 weeks) If she misses and I ketch her in the act I use the uh-uh to try to startle he a little.

Now we are about 80-90 %successful, whenever she rings the bell I let her out, still tell piddle poop, reward her when she does, if she plays around I shut the door and come back in 5 min. the book says to bring her in and confine for 15 min then try agian (bell or not). I think food was the magic part of the training. I would rather get up every 15 min then clean a mess every hour.

Hope you find something that works, there are lots of good ideas and I agree that Cavs seem to be hard to house train. Just have lots of patents:thmbsup:. Suzanne

MadPip
4th March 2009, 05:12 PM
I would have to agree that CKCS are, in my experience, more difficult to housetrain than other breeds (I have two, and my first took a good year to train and we're still working on #2 and he is almost 9 months!).

However, it is most likely that my life situation is different now than it was when I had other puppies (I now have a child!) :lotsaluv: and therefore have less time to properly manage and train a puppy. I've just learned that I have to get over the guilt of crating him when I can't watch him and know that it is not a punishment, but a training tool.

It's strange how we all have different experiences and perceptions, isn't it? Because if anyone asked me I'd have to say the 3 CKCS I've owned (2 curled up with me now, one many many years ago) have been the easiest dogs I've ever had regarding house training. The worst dog I had was a little long-haired daschund type, Carrie, that I found abandoned aged 3 wks (approx). She was a second dog (the other, Trudy a mongrel aged 1yr was fully house trained) and in all her long life I never managed to get her completely house trained.:confused: Complete failure in fact, she just never "got it" . My other difficult one was a collie cross rescue, who had been a stray and then in kennels, approx 5yrs old, so she took quite some time to learn. But we got there in the end. :thmbsup:

I think perseverance is the main thing. I think most dogs, if given consistent training, will get there in the end.