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nubus
6th June 2008, 12:22 PM
hi i was wondering if any of you out there has experienced bladder stones in your dogs yesterday my ruby was trying to pee all day and feeling very low she was really straining then she vomited three times this went on all day i thought she might be just feeling unwell from something shes maybe ate while i wasnt looking while where out so i made sure she had plenty of water and kept her warm the emergency vet told me to keep an eye on her and alert him to any changes in behaviour then about 11 o clock at night she suddenly started trying to jump on my knee in a frenzy she ran around and she let out a yelp and she passed two quite large creamy coloured stones and a very big wee after after cleaning her up she seemed somewhat relieved and snuggled up and went to sleep i kept any eye on her all night and rang the vets this morning he said they where bladder stones and that females do usually pass them with no no probs but she will have to be put on a food to dissolve them as not to cause a dislodge from larger ones hes recommended hill sp but ive heared this can sometimes make it worse ive been given another food by a lady called lifes abundance she says will be better for her before i go ahead i was just wondering if anyone has advise out there as its all new to me shes at the vets monday so any help would be great before then

Karlin
6th June 2008, 12:28 PM
Ohh, poor Ruby -- any person who has had stones can confirm this is hideously painful to have them and pass them -- many women say the pain is FAR worse than labour!!! You do not ever want your dog to go through this again.

Given how much pain she was in, I wouldn't be taking advice from *anyone* but a vet on how to treat this. She may need to be on a special diet the rest of her life. Maybe try and view it from a human perspective: I am sure if this were you or a child having the stones you wouldn't ignore your doctor's prescription in order to do what a non-medical person recommended.

If you have any concerns about the foods, just ask your vet about the other food. But please do not self-medicate your dog based on what non-medical people who have not diagnosed your dog, say to do. Lots of well intentioned people have opinions on what to do, especially feeding. But this is a serious medical condition and you need to talk to your vet. Why would a vet prescribe something that would make the situation worse? Have you actually gone to see a vet now over this quite serious condition or are you still going by the phone conversation? You really must go see a vet right away if you haven't done so yet.

Karlin
6th June 2008, 01:11 PM
Ok, I checked Life's Abundance -- it just a normal dog food and will NOT dissolve existing stones -- you need a special prescription diet to try to actually dissolve the stones.

You also must get her to a vet -- diet alone will not always dissolve the stones and sometimes surgery is required. If she hadn't passed those stones, she could easily have died -- your vet needs to check for any others. Causes of the stones can be fairly simple but could be due to a tumour or other problems so it is just crucial that she be examined and be under direct vet care. Your vet needs to help you figure out why the stones are forming and how severe they are. I'd bring the stones in with you that she passed.

More information:

http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?articleid=400http://www.vetsurgerycentral.com/bladderstones.htm

nubus
6th June 2008, 05:48 PM
thanks for your concern karlin:luv: i too though she should be seen but he said as long as she has passed them and is peeing ok now she should be ok till her appointment on monday she seems much better today but be assured if this happens again ill take her straight to the emergency vets he told me to bring the stones with me for them to be analised and will tell me what she should be eating just want to make everything better for her i hope its nothing to serious and can get it sorted as i hate to see her in such discomfort :(again i never slept a wink last night:o

Cathy Moon
7th June 2008, 09:26 PM
I'm just catching up on your thread. I hope Ruby feels lots better and that you get lots of information at your vet appointment on Monday - soon you'll be a pro on this subject. :flwr:

My India used to get urinary tract infections that caused her urine to become too alkaline, which caused crystals to form, which our vet told us could lead to struvite bladder stones. We had to have her urine monitored, and she was on a special diet and medication to make her urine a little more acidic. Fortunately we were able to prevent any bladder stone from forming.

There are other types of stones called oxalate, which form when underlying problems cause the urine to be too acidic.

Usually if a dog has passed stones, the vet will want to x-ray to check for more stones. Some stones cannot be passed or dissolved, and require surgical removal.

Then the vet will want to focus on prevention, and I personally would go along with the diet the vet prescribes, because of the risks associated with further stones forming and the possibility of needing surgery.

Here are some informational links my vets' website provides for their clients:
http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&S=0&C=0&A=460&EVetID=3001496

http://www.northviewvet.com/site/view/49523_PetLibrary.pml
Just select 'Dogs' and key in 'bladder stones' as the topic. There is additional information about oxalate stones, etc.

Good luck at the vets and please keep us updated! :xfngr::flwr:

nubus
7th June 2008, 10:49 PM
thankyou so much for posts:luv: yes she doing fine now will see what the vet says on monday and let you all no how she gets on :xfngr: ive checked them out on the internet:*bay: and they look like the struvite stones you mentioned that can be dissovled so hopefully we will be given some dissolving medication or food and all will be well again maybe she too as a problem with her alkaline and this can be sorted out so no more painfull wee wees:eek:

Cathy Moon
7th June 2008, 11:27 PM
If your vet finds that Ruby's urine alkalinity is caused by UTI (urinary tract infection), I would like to share this info: we discovered India's UTIs were easily prevented by simply taking her to a professional groomer regularly and having a 'sanitary trim' of the hair on her private areas. She has been free of this problem for months now. :flwr:

nubus
9th June 2008, 12:42 AM
thanks cathy for the info:luv: ive just recently had her groomed and had her all cleaned up underneath keeps her very clean i must say:D ill know more tomorrow when ive been to the vets so ill keep you posted :blabla:

casshon
9th June 2008, 09:23 AM
Honey had bladder stones and had an operation to have them removed. She was on a special food for the rest of her life but other than that she was perfectly fine after the op. Hope Ruby is feeling better :flwr:.

nubus
9th June 2008, 10:00 PM
hi all been to the vets today rubys been checked over and all seems well the vet said what i carnt understand is he never asked to check her urine or to check the stones just said to put her on the hills sp plan for a while to see if they dissolve but how will he know if hes hasnt xrayed her to see if she has anymore:confused: i know there were very busy today but i felt a bit fobbed of he never seemed to care much as she looked in great condition as he said:rolleyes: i think im gonna get a second opinion as im not to sure if i liked his attitude to my concerns today:mad: can i ask casshon what diet was honey put on for life as he never mentioned that she would have to change her diet after the hills sp

casshon
9th June 2008, 10:29 PM
She was on Hills Science Plan CD. Once Honey had the stones removed and remained on the special food she didn't have more problems with bladder stones. If you are not happy I would definitely get a second opinion.

nubus
9th June 2008, 10:48 PM
yes im gonna do that i dont mind her being on a special diet as long as it helps her but i need to surely know they are dissolving and i carnt see how he would know if they havent looked to see if she has anymore im no vet but is just putting her on the diet surely enough without monitoring the stones to see if the foods helping or maybe need surgical removing :confused: can i also ask you was it the hills sp diet that she was on for life as he said she would need it for three months then to come of it has its high in fat and not very palatable and this should be only used for a short time

casshon
10th June 2008, 09:36 AM
This is what it says on the Hills website:
For the nutritional management of pets with urinary tract disease associated with struvite in dogs.Urinary tract disease is associated with the build-up of crystals and stones in the urinary tract. These can cause painful and bloody urine and potential blockage of the urinary tract. One type of crystal that forms in a dog’s urinary tract is called struvite. Prescription Diet c/d* was formulated specifically to help reduce recurrence of struvite-related urinary tract disease. Struvite may form when the urine is saturated with magnesium, ammonium and phosphorus, and has an alkaline (basic) urinary pH (6.5).
http://www.hillspet.com/zSkin_2/products/product_details_eu.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=8455244 41760471&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=1408474395183417&bmUID=1213083051161&bmLocale=en_GB

Honey had a major problem with the stones - her bladder was really full of them so our vet recommended that she stay on this food. It is apparantely very bland but Honey had no problem eating it - she loved her food :lotsaluv:. I really trust our vet and followed his advice so I would definitely find a vet that you like and trust as soon as you can so that can get Ruby better.

Cathy Moon
10th June 2008, 12:31 PM
I would definitely get a second opinion, because you don't have all the information needed to make sure she'll be fine.

First, the vet should be looking at the stones she passed and her urine to determine if it is struvite or oxalate. One type of stone can be dissolved, while the other cannot, but both types require a special diet. Then the vet should determine whether there are additional stones in her bladder as well as monitor her urine.

There are other prescription diets besides Hills, for example Royal Canin has a line of prescription foods.

nubus
10th June 2008, 06:30 PM
yes i would of thought that he did take them from me but never said what he was going to do with them and never checked her urine ive made a new appointment with another vet for friday so lets see how that goes this time ill be more forward with the questions:xfngr:

Karlin
10th June 2008, 07:29 PM
First, I'd ask if he has checked for the type of stone, since he took them.

Also: On one of the links I gave you I recall that it says that dogs should only stay short term on special diets for dissolving the stones because they are not nutritionally complete over the long term. It said it takes about three months to dissolve stones so your vet would have been completely correct on all those points.

I'm surprised they wouldn't do a urine test or maybe an ultrasound to scan for the presence of other stones (this is what they did for one of my cats), though I am told most vets can feel if there are any there in dogs. Regardless I'd guess most vets would put a dog on a special diet to dissolve any existing stones if possible. After that you probably would need a special diet lower in magnesium etc.

molly
10th June 2008, 07:36 PM
Our dalmatian had kidney stones (the breed is prone to them) and had surgery to remove what turned out to be hundreds of them. He was on a low protein diet for life and had urine tests done routinely for the rest of his life. There are different reasons that the stones can form and I am glad you are going for a second opinion so that you can pursue eliminating or at least reducing the sources of the stones.

There is an excellent web group for kidney info. They are extremely knowledgeable and helpful. Tons of helpful info in their files sections too. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/K9KidneyDiet/

I hope your pup is OK going forward.

Karlin
10th June 2008, 07:56 PM
what turned out to be hundreds of them
:eek: Oh my word, poor dog. I know this is a serious problem for the breed -- it is the MVD of dalmations, very widespread though as with cavaliers and early onset MVD, careful health focused breeding by committed breeders has really reduced the incidence.

molly
10th June 2008, 10:32 PM
Yes, stones and deafness are the most common physical conditions for dalmatians. Most of the stones he had were sand like but some larger ones had caused a urinary blockage. Ours died at age 14 over 4 yrs. ago and back 18 yrs. ago when he was born, not as much was known about the genetics of the issues. Since then breeders have made alot of strides in producing healthier dogs. Hopefully, the good breeders of today will help eradicate MVD, SM and some of the other conditions the cavalier breed is facing today.
Click here: Dalmatian Club of America - Urinary Stone-Forming in Dalmatians and Other Dogs (http://www.thedca.org/dal_book.html)

nubus
13th June 2008, 10:34 PM
well been to the vets today very pleased with outcome:p ruby was checked for stones and she as quite a few:o i have the option to operate or try to dissolve with the food i of cause took the food option shes been put on royal canine urinary support dry and canned food bit exspensive but hopefully it will work and shes very much worth it if this dosent work she will of cause have to have them removed but fingers crossed :xfngr: he says at the moment she dosent have too many so hopefully they will dissolve :xfngr: shes being monitored to see if its doing the job shes also had a urine test all seems well at the moment but again she will be monitored on that as this could of cause change there is obviously some thing making this happen . i do feel much better now:rah: it seems we can go forward and no more sleepless nights id like to thank you all :luv:for your great advise and links it really has helped and can i say your dogs are all so lovely :thmbsup: