Need some advice....new here

Hi everyone
I just found this site and love it. I am the proud owner of a 3 mo old Cavalier King Charles and need your help. Ok, first off, I bought him from Petland (please don't get mad) on May 25th. He was in the Animal Clinic from May 27th-May30th with Kennel cough and pneumonia. He is better now though and this is the first full week I have had him. He is the sweetest puppy ever. I just had a few questions about getting him neutered. What are the advantages to this??? Also, I have been reading up on this breed and what are his chances of getting some of these diseases this breed is prone to like heart murmur's. I want to take care of him to the best of my knowledge and need some advice. He goes back for his recheck to his vet next Saturday. Is there anything I should ask her to check him out for? Ever since he was hospitalized he is making me really nervous. It's almost like I am scared to own him because of what happened in the first few days. Can anyone help me with this??? Thanks

I'd carefully read your contract with Petland and I'd certainly work to have them cover your vet costs. They should have sold him with a health clearance and obviously he was very sick. Unfortunately health issues are far more common in puppies from petshops, because they come from puppy mills (regardless of what they say -- this is quite well documented by many investigations over many years). You do need to understand that health issues may be more common in your cavalier because he will have come from totally indifferent, mass breeders who do not follow the basic health protocols that good breeders do, such as the MVD (mitral valve disease) protocol to reduce the incidence of early onset heart murmurs. These are not people who health test for anything and their breeding animals do not come from health-focused breeders either. This doesn't mean you should love your dog or enjoy him any the less -- but i do think you must understand this very basic fact, that you are already in a position to have more health problems. This may never be a major factor, but there is a much higher likelihood.

On health issues: this breed has several and MVD will affect almost all cavaliers eventually. Half of cavaliers have murmurs by age 5 and almost 100% by age 10. Thus you do need to be informed on the condition as well as other key health issues like syringomyelia, dry eye, luxating patellas, hip dysplasia. There is plenty of info on all of these in the Library section of the site.

A pet quality male should be neutered IMHO and most vets will always recommend neutering. This has health benefits and behaviour benefits for males. If you use the search function and also check the Library section you will find lots of information and discussions of neutering.

The thing that is really frustrating is that the petshops sell poor quality, and very often sickly puppies for the same price and often far ore than a puppy from an excellent background and excellent breeder would cost. They rely totally on impulse buying. One of the reasons this board exists is to help people do the research before buying or to offer some support after buying through these unfortunate means, so that you are well armed with information (and can perhaps help others avoid a similar situation too).

I don't know if any of the experiences of these many people who have posted complaints on this consumer affairs website might be of help but Petland IMHO should be forced out of the business of selling puppies: http://www.consumeraffairs.com/pets/petland.htm

This might also be of help, a post on what to do if you buy a sickly puppy: http://board.cavaliertalk.com/showthread.php?t=8744

Hi Karlin I want to thank you for your reply first off. I couldn't resist this puppy and it wasn't planned, it was a spur of the moment thing. He was fine when I bought him on Sunday but took a turn on Monday. Well, I won't say fine but not bad. I couldn't tell he was sick. All of his vet bills are totally covered by Petland and they reassure me that he is not from a puppy mill. ????? I have gotten on the net and read and read and don't like what I read but I can't change it now. I love him and will deal with anything that comes my way. With petland, you have to take the puppy for a final vet check within four days of buying him, which mine wasn't even that. She really hasn't checked him out other than treating his condition. What can I have her check for when I go back? Anything in particular? So, if he does get the murmur, how will I know and what will it do to him? What I am saying is, is there anything I can have the vet check that would make the petstore responsible for this on this next visit. I have talked to the store many times since this, so much that they probably know me by my voice. LOL They have done all this reassuring me that the puppies come from Hunte Corp with responsible breeders. ??? I want to believe this about my puppy just because I don't want to be scared to death to even pick him up for getting him sick. I am really terrified now more than ever.........

I'm not Karlin and she is definitely the expert and will give you the best advice regarding your pup's health. You've definitely come to the right place for information and support regarding your new pup. I've learned so much from this board.

I'm so sorry your puppy has been so sick, but it sounds like he's on the upswing now. I'm glad Petland is going to reimburse your expenses--they definitely ought to.

Just wanted to encourage you to not be afraid of your puppy's potential health issues, but rather equip yourself to deal with them should they come. Knowledge is power, as they say. Read, read, read...it'll help put your fears into perspective and you'll be a better owner to your pup.

Like Karlin said, your puppy may be more prone to some health issues because of where he came from, but then again, you may get lucky and not have to deal with some of the more severe health problems for a very long time.

There are others who, like you, got their puppy from a puppy mill or pet store before they knew better. You're not alone...

Enjoy your puppy and have fun with him. Puppies/dogs can sense when we're stressed or fearful and it makes them uneasy as well. Try to relax and focus on getting your puppy healthy and strong.

It sounds like you're going to be a great puppy parent since you took the time to find this place!

Good luck--and sorry this is sooooo long.

Hunte Corp uses puppy mills, plain and simple. This is very well documented all across the net. Petland is well known for saying they don't use puppy mills but the fact is that mass breeding repeatedly from dogs kept permanently in small cages -- hundred and hundreds of dogs in a single 'farm' of multiple breeds -- is called a mill, regrdles of whether it is nice and clean inside or one of the truly horrific places. If we cannot imagine our own dogs spending their lives in tiny cages being bred and bred, with no human interaction or proper life, that who would want to see dogs anywhere else held like this simply to make profits for others? No reputable breeder would ever, ever sell their puppies to a petshop or to Hunte Corp to truck them halfway across the country to go on sale to buyers the breeder can never personally speak to and advise. The more this message gets out, the better.

Heart murmurs (MVD) are progressive so it is very unusual for them to appear before age 3 or so for very early onset cases. Unfortunately most of the things the breed can get come later, not within 4 days of buying a puppy, and they aren't young puppy problems. Patellas for example tend to show up between 5-12 months or so, and syringomyelia at older ages too. The other thing is that Petland use their own vets in their own pay -- this has also been an issue for people who have had Petland vets clear their dog that then gets sick.


The best thing you can do is get insurance even though all the initial problems will be excluded. I'd go with Petplan or one of the others that cover hereditary problems (very few do). Also you need to read up on the breed and its health, personality and behaviour. We have tons of info here in the library and in past posts.

Oh, good luck to you. I am so glad that little innocent puppy has you to love and take care of him......judy and dixie

You may want to read up on the Hunte Corporation, but wondering why you think a corporation would have anything to do with caring breeders? They are a massive puppy broker that sells 1500-2000 puppies a week to pet stores. Their trucks have no windows and a couple of them have caught fire, one incident killing 60 puppies in 2006. That being said, I hope for the best for your puppy, but probably the only thing they can determine is patella problems at this age, other problems , if any , wouldn't usually show up right away. So if someone tells you how cute your puppy is, tell them to go to a responsible breeder please :xctly:

I just met a very nice lady in my neighborhood who bought her cavalier from Petland. Very similar story to yours, but she bought her puppy 6 months ago. Her dog had very bad respiratory problems and some other issues. They ended up spending a lot of time and money at the vet right away. I have no idea if she was reimbursed by Petland or not. Also, her puppy is very timid, which is not at all characteristic of a cavalier. She is a very smart lady, but she, like you, bought her dog on impulse from Petland. She said she knew intellectually at the time that it was not a great idea, but in the heat of the moment with that puppy giving you kisses, all that stuff kind of takes a back burner. Believe me, I know how hard it is to leave the store and not take a puppy with me. I can't go in there for that very reason. (Plus, I've vowed not to support them in any way.)

It seems like lots of Petland's puppies start off sick, which should tell people all they need to know about that place. I know another person who bought a Japanese Chin there, and her puppy's sister was quarantined in the back of the store because she was so sick. It's not normal for puppies to be sick with these problems, so that tells you what kind of places they come from. And I have to agree that Hunte Corp certainly does not sound like a caring breeder, just by its name. Sounds like a broker who probably buys from many different puppy millers on a very large scale.

I hope your puppy is healthy, and maybe you can gently spread the word about buying puppies at pet stores, now that you are more informed. I'm sure you'll be a good doggy mom, and your puppy is lucky that someone like you bought her! As Karlin said, it's not that she'll definitely have health issues, but her chances are much higher, given her breeding and probable sad start in life. It's not so much the puppies that suffer, it's the parents back at the mill.

It's not so much the puppies that suffer, it's the parents back at the mill.

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You said it!! I get so frustrated when I hear about people buying their pets at a pet store but don't feel there's anything wrong with it. It's one thing if you buy your dog at a pet store and then learn that what you did was not okay. It's not so much the puppy you bought as where that puppy came from. It's mom is probably suffering in a tiny cramped cage with no love or attention cranking out puppy after puppy.....and much much worse. I heard a story just recently about a mill producer who had an infection on her leg, so they amputated her leg and continued to produce puppies off of her. I want to hand people a picture of a puppy mill mom and ask them "does it not bother you that your sweet puppy came from a sweet dog who lived in these kinds of conditions?"

I hope your puppy is healthy, and maybe you can gently spread the word about buying puppies at pet stores, now that you are more informed.

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Thank you so much for adding these words. I, too, hope your puppy is healthy and fine. I wouldn't want to wish sickness on any dog no matter where it came from. But I also hope you can "gently" spread the word. That's why I can't stand in front of or go into a store that sells dogs....I can't get the "gently" part down

I think a lot of people genuinely do not know too much about dogs and the dog world when they buy fro Petland, going by the posts on the consumeraffairs site. It is one thing to impulse buy a puppy -- but I am really surprised (shocked atually) how many state they bought there because the wanted a dog to show at AKC shows and to breed. Maybe some good will come of an initial bad experience for such folks if they then spend some time researching and discover this really isn't the way to get into showing or breeding. There seems to be a disconnect that the same type of dogs that produced their poorly puppy would not be good stock to base a show or breeding line generally -- you need to get involved with the breed, get to know show breeders, and buy the best possible dogs from great healthy lines to establish a good kennel and reputation. Some of the people really come across as more annoyed that their breeding plans are ruined, than that they are furious their puppy has suffered.

I know how seductive the idea of buying online or from a store can be -- it seems like it will be nice and easy and many people like the supposed 'health guarantees' the stores and the online breeders offer. The consumer site makes clear that the guarantees are usually pretty worthless from the shops and we all know they often are from the online breeders, too. Buying a pedigree puppy or kitten is such a Buyer Beware zone as there are so many people only interested in making a buck off their animals and not remotely interested in the long term effects on breed health (or the health of the puppies/kittens they produce and sell).

Thanks for all your replies. I totally get that it was wrong for me to buy from there because you feel that I am supporting them. I feel more sorry for the puppy than the need to support them. I think they already have plenty of supporters and don't need me. BUT I kind of feel like I rescued him from whatever may have been if he had stayed there. I guess the only reason I didn't look at Hunte Corp as a puppy mill is because maybe these breeders just didn't want to mess with trying to find indivual homes and they just sold them all at once??? I know that there are sooo many individual breeders that do the same thing, just to make money, and yeah maybe they do care about the puppies but most just get their first shots and send them on their way so I don't see them any different, I actually view them worse. They do not care who they sell to and are much cheaper and if you're puppy gets sick they will not pay for the vet bill. BELIEVE ME, I DO NOT AGREE WITH PUPPY MILLS AND MAKING THE MOTHERS SUFFER!!! IT BREAKS MY HEART TO KNOW ALL THIS STUFF!! I feel that there are soooo many breeders out there that are just like them. I just kind of feel like I am getting bashed by a few for buying him. I am trying to look at it as I helped him even though I could not help his mom. I just want to take care of this puppy the best I can and provide him with the best life possible, it's not his fault. I understand all your frustrations and wish I could do more to help this problem but I feel like it's everywhere, probably even my neighbor!! I guess the main thing I am terriffied about now is the health issues that he may encounter. I am sorry but a few of the posts have just scared me to death. I kind of feel like I done a good thing by rescuing him but a bad thing for helping him. I am just really confused....

Harley1 said:

I just kind of feel like I am getting bashed by a few for buying him. I am trying to look at it as I helped him even though I could not help his mom.

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I don't think anyone means to bash you--puppy mills are a very sore spot around here because of the abusive nature of the industry, as well as the damage they have done to to the breed itself by breeding and re-breeding sickly dogs who go on to breed more sickly dogs, etc. All in the name of money...it's incredibly sad and maddening. It's obvious you weren't aware of all of this and your heart was in the right place.

Please do take Karlin's advice to get health insurance for your pup--it's SO important. Petplan does have the best rates and coverage that I've ever come across.

Just keep hanging around here and you'll learn alot and it'll put alot of your fears and confusion to rest. There's no need to fear things that may or may not happen. Soooo, take a deep breath and enjoy your new puppy.

We would love to see some pictures of your puppy when you have a chance to post some. :snap: What's his name, by the way--Harley?

HI Denise
Thank you so much for your encouraging reply. It's just been a real bumpy road since the day I got him and I guess I was more worried about his health and not expecting to have to defend myself about having him. Please don't take that the wrong way cause I am definately not taking up for Petland but just didn't expect the reaction I got. WOW!! I guess I just took it personal. I know I shouldn't though, I do understand completely where everyone is coming from. So, how do I look into getting this insurance? Is there a website for Petcare? Thanks again for ALL replies, I appreciate your support......

Oh sorry, I will post some pics and his name is Harley. So, is it Petcare or Petplan?

I'm so sorry that you feel that people are bashing you on here! Im certain that its not their intention. It is just that they feel so passionate about this subject.

In terms of feeling like you rescued him... that is how they make money from those that even DO know about puppy mills. In their minds, there are people out there willing to keep paying good money to 'rescue' these dogs... they are playing with peoples emotions. They see it like there is a 'demand' for these puppies, so they stay in 'business'. Does that make sense?

The main thing is that ALL your time goes in to this little pup. You will need to keep an eye on him ALL the time. A good thing to do to housetrain as well is to attach him to your jeans by his lead... so he has to follow you around the house all the time. You'll get to know him better and realise when he 'needs' to go. You'll need to be taking him out for the toilet every 45 or so at the moment anyway.
I know/hope that you will do well by him now, and I hope that, although you feel you rescued him, you can understand why people feel so passionate about this topic. Its a two way street!

If you think the Hunte Corp is better than someone's home, then you really do need to read about them more. I can understand how you feel bashed but if you continue to espouse those sentiments, how are you helping future dogs? If you really want to feel like you resued a dog, I suggest you contribute your energy to Cavalier rescue groups. You are a welcomed member on this board or any other, but I personally get upset with this notion that buying a puppy is rescue. Buying a puppy, and by the way, the pet store probably got most of the money when buying wholesale puppies like they were groceries, just contributes to the problem. When the store keeps making money , they just replace yours with another. If they hadn't sold your puppy , or had to sell it so low that they lost money, then the cycle is broken. I only wish you well with your puppy, really, and try Petcare insurance, they are one of the few that cover hereditary conditions. There is also Trupanion, just started here, that only insures puppies , throughout their lives.

Harley1, the link to Petplan Insurance in the U.S. is:

http://gopetplan.com/

They have cheaper rates and better coverage than PetCare Insurance (unless there's been a rate change since I last checked) which is what I have for my Golden. I still have him on PetCare because of some pre-existing conditions.

You'll really be glad you got the coverage.

Dogs are all bred by individuals--

A commercial puppy mill (farm ) produces a product for purchase. They keep costs down and profits up. Little veterinary care, no health testing, most of these places smell so badly -- not a fit place for anything.

A back yard breeder (byb)is usually someone who is breeding their pet for the experience or for extra money. Usually the "pets" are decently cared for. No health testing is usually done.

A hobby breeder is someone who breeds for their own purpose-- to improve the breed and to prove improvements by showing in different venues. Health, temperament and conformation are the cornerstones of good breeding.

BYB are usually the cheapest and they home pups asap. Again, not in the best interest of the breed.

Hi Denise, Thank you for the info. I will check that out. So you think Petplan is the better one to go with? I will definately check it out. I truly hope everyone on here understands that I want what's best for this puppy. So, have you had any problems with your2 yr old so far? I stayed up til 1:30 last night reading all the horror stories on what could could happen to him and anyone else who owns one, not just from a pet store. It's depressing!!