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SUPADOG
14th June 2008, 05:50 PM
Hello everybody,just wondered if anyone gives paracetamol or infant calpol to there dog with sm for pain relief

Cathy Moon
14th June 2008, 05:54 PM
Hello everybody,just wondered if anyone gives paracetamol or infant calpol to there dog with sm for pain relief
Only medicines recommended by your vet should be given to your dog.

SUPADOG
14th June 2008, 05:57 PM
Hello cathy,yes he is taking it under supervision of our vet but wondered if anybody else had used it.

Karlin
14th June 2008, 08:57 PM
NEVER give paracetomol to a dog except under vet direction! It can be lethal -- as with ANY human medication, never ever use it without direct vet consultation first. This is especially true if a dog is already on any other medication. :thmbsup:

Paracetomol:


As little as one regular strength tablet (325 mg) can poison a cat to the degree that it can develop noticeable clinical signs of illness. Two extra-strength tablets are likely to kill a cat. Dogs (particularly small dogs) are also susceptible to significant tissue damage from as little as two regular strength Panadol or Paracetamol and repeated doses increase the risk significantly. Signs develop quickly and can include salivation, vomiting, weakness and abdominal pain. Due to the significant toxicity to pets in relatively minimal dosages, the recommendation is clear - Panadol, Paracetamol or any Analgesics should not be given to dogs or cats. Other,safer, drugs are available for pain relief; talk to your veterinarian about your own pet's specific needs.

http://www.doglistener.co.uk/medical/toxins.shtml

And:


Pill Ills
Dr Cam Day
The Australian Veterinary Association (AVA) is warning cat and dog owners that human painkillers are dangerous when given to pets.

Common pain killers such as aspirin, paracetamol and ibuprofen are toxic to pets and can be lethal.

Referring to recent concerns amongst the medical profession about products containing ibuprofen being available over-the-counter to humans, former AVA National President Dr Norm Blackman says that veterinarians have similar concerns about the administration of such products to pets.

"Ibuprofen works to block the chemicals in the body that cause pain, fever and inflammation," says Dr Blackman.

"This drug is found in many anti-inflammatory products on the market and it can be potentially toxic to dogs, especially smaller breeds, and to cats. Giving even one tablet of Ibuprofen to pets can cause gastric ulceration."

The AVA has strong fears that the availability of this drug in supermarkets may increase the risk of toxicity if pet owners inadvertently administer these products to their pets thinking it will ease their pets’ aches and pains.

"If your pet is ill it's always best to seek veterinary advice rather than try and treat the symptoms yourself," says Dr Blackman.

"People don't seem to realise that animals have a different physiology to humans and that products which may be safe for us can be very harmful to our pets. There are drugs that are more appropriate for animals and that have been tested and approved by the relevant authorities."

Products that contain paracetamol and aspirin can also be toxic. This is especially so for cats.

These drugs are all too commonly given to cats by their owners. They are incorrectly used as a home remedy for many feline illnesses. This is an extremely dangerous practice and can result in the death of the pet.

Dogs are a little more tolerant of paracetamol and aspirin but there is very little margin for error and the preparations should not be given to your dog unless this is advised by your veterinarian.

Paracetamol causes extreme breathlessness by dangerously altering the red blood cells. It changes the red pigment of the blood (haemoglobin) into a compound known as methaemoglobin. This substance does not carry oxygen and results in the animal's gums and lips turning blue. Fluid-like swelling occurs around the face and the pet begins gasping for breath.

Aspirin is also a danger. It causes intense irritation of the intestines and a loss of appetite. Vomiting and depression also occur, especially with cats, and the cat is not able to balance or stand. Its head may be wobbling or swaying from side to side.

Other human medications that you should keep away from your cat include any containing phenylbutazone, indomethacin, naproxen, acetaminophen and codeine.

"Always follow the advice of your veterinarian and never think that what is safe for you is also safe for your pet. Keeping toxic materials away from your pets is one way of making sure that your veterinary bills are small," says Dr Blackman.

From: http://www.petalia.com.au/templates/StoryTemplate_Process.cfm?specie=1&Story_No=1947

There is apparently only ONE form of paracetamol acceptable for dogs and it is ONLY for large breeds.

SUPADOG
15th June 2008, 02:42 AM
Hello Karlin and thanks for the reply,maybe i should explain a little,i'll try and keep it brief.
We have a 5 1/2 year old blenheim cav called polo who last june was sent to chestergates referal hospital where he was full body mri scanned and diagnosed with severe syrinxes extending all the way down his spine,the neurologist there said he was lucky to be walking so well with the extent of his sm.She eventually over the next few weeks balanced his tablets till he was on 3x 100mg gabapentin daily,1/4 (2.5mg) ferusemide twice daily,and one and a half prednisolone (7.5mg i think)every other day.this worked marvellous for him most of the time and if he showed any sign of discomfort or pain we had to give him an extra pred and or we could give him a dose of calpol (a 2 1/2ml spoonfull is 60mg of paracetamol).He responded really well to the tablets, only now and again did he need an extra pred but we didn't need to give him any calpol and everything hunky dory till 3 weeks ago.It was about 7.30 in the evening he followed lesley into the kitchen and gave out a loud and painful yelp lifted his front leg and then limped of into a corner.We gave him his extra pred and expected him to be recovering as usual in about an hour,not so,by 11pm we called the emmergency vet out and he had to have a pethadine injection,this left him (and me) sat up panting till 4am whereby i gave him 2 and a half ml of calpol. At 4.50am he finally moved out from behind the chair and laid down and fell asleep (relief).The day after we took him to our usual vet who gave him another injection but with a sedative in as well so as to relax him,this did the trick and he slept most of the day.After consulting the neurologist that treated him in the first place she altered his water tablet to a half twice daily and his pred to one and a half twice daily just for three days with some antepsin for 10 days for his stomarch as well.After three days the vet reduced his pred to one and a half every day and to see how he does over the next week or so.Well he seemed to be slowly recovering but then had a setback as when he had a drink of water,he coughed and was clearly in pain again,gave him calpol as directed by the vet and he recovered after about an hour.For the next day or so i gave him the calpol as well and he seemed to be recovering so stopped the calpol.Well, he became so ill last weekend we were contemplating uthanasia,he couldn't walk, couldn't drink and had a pained expression in his eyes it looked like we were going to have to say goodbye as he really was suffering,we were both in tears.So again i gave him some calpol(21/2ml) three times a day with his other medication and he's done marvellous since tuesday with no relapses (so far), no limping, no coughing no pained expression quite his old self(touchwood).We are waiting for our vet to contact us regarding painkilling without us having to call the emmergency vets out of hours, but, as she's been off all week so dosn't yet know he's been so poorly which brings me to the reason for this post.I just wondered if anybody else had been prescibed paracetamol by their vet and if so had it helped with pain control as i'm not sure it is.It may just be his medication settling it down but thought here was a good place to ask as i am going to stop the calpol and see what happens now.Please understand that i don't want to give him anything that will harm him in any way but if this eases his pain and gives us a bit longer with him what do i do regards Peter.

Cathy Moon
15th June 2008, 03:09 AM
Oh, I am so sorry for what you're going through. I have been there myself, and we had to give our little Charlie his wings last January.

In the US we have a veterinary pain medication called Tramadol. That is what our neurologist and veterinarian prescribed for Charlie when he was in pain. He was taking Gabapentin and two other meds, but the Tramadol gave him extra relief when needed. It was very effective, and mostly he relaxed and slept when we gave it to him.

Here is information about Tramadol. You might want to ask your vet for this until you are ready to let Polo go. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tramadol

We do not regret having Charlie put to sleep. It was finally the only way to give him relief. There are times when I do regret not having done it sooner. :(

Once again, my heart goes out to you and your family.

Cathy Moon
15th June 2008, 03:32 AM
Tramadol for veterinary use:

Animal treatment

Tramadol for animals is one of the most reliable and useful active principles available to veterinarians for treating animals in pain. It has a dual mode of action: mu agonism and monoamine reuptake inhibition, which produces mild anti-anxiety results. Tramadol may be utilized for relieving pain in cats and dogs. This is an advantage because the use of some non-steroidal anti-inflammatory substances in these animals may be dangerous.

When animals are administered tramadol, adverse reactions can occur. The most common are: constipation, upset stomach, decreased heart rate. In case of overdose, mental alteration, pinpoint pupils and seizures may appear. In such case, veterinarians should evaluate the correct treatment for these events. Some contraindications have been noted in treated animals taking certain other drugs. Tramadol should not be co-administered with Deprenyl or any other psychoactive ingredient such as: serotonin reuptake inhibitors, tricyclic antidepressants, or monoamine oxidase inhibitors. In animals, tramadol is removed from the body via liver and kidney excretion. Animals suffering from diseases in these systems should be monitored by a veterinarian, as it may be necessary to adjust the dose.

Dosage and administration of tramadol for animals: in dogs a starting dosage of 1-2 mg/kg twice a day will be useful for pain management. Cats are administered 2-4 mg/kg twice a day.

We used to give Charlie a fish oil capsule with his food to help combat constipation, which was the only side effect he had from Tramadol.

Karlin
15th June 2008, 11:42 AM
I'm really sorry to hear what you are going through. Dealing with this condition is very frustrating and often very discouraging and watching a dog in pain is very hard.

However you do not want to introduce new, severe problems, and I'd still be very concerned at the amount of Calpol your dog is getting if it isn;t under direct vet advice for that higher amount daily (a single dose seems to be what had been recommended but you'd be giving three times that amount?) and whether this is an appropriate or safe approach. This drug can cause stomiach bleeding and make a dog, especially a small dog, very seriously ill. If you are giving Calpol three or four times a day you really must OK this with Chestergates.

I would wonder whether it would not be better to simply increase the gabapentin dose? many of us give a considerably higher dose that that. It sounds like you have a seriously affected cavalier and I am sure you know you are managing pain on a short term prognosis as none of these medications will actually halt or improve the actual condition, they just help with the pain.

If you want a second opinion on possibilities, I'd recommend talking to Clare Rusbridge in Wimbledon or Nick Jeffries in Cambridge to see if your dog would be a surgical candidate, if you want to consider this approach. I have great respect for Chestergates as my own dogs were MTId there, but they take quite a different approach than most other neurologists and you might want to try a different approach -- which would likely be increasing gabapentin and considering the decompression surgery.

SUPADOG
15th June 2008, 12:49 PM
Hello karlin,
Thanks to you and cathy for replies,your right we don't want to create any other problems and the dose we are giving has been ok'd with the vet. At the moment we are waiting for a reply back from chestergates as to whether he would be suitable for surgery and what other type of pain control he can have.I will mention about higher dose gabapentin and tramadol when the vet calls.We know it's only a matter of time and we definately won't have him in severe pain but at this moment he seems happy and pain free,but it can change in the next five minutes. It seems that all these drugs have nasty side effects and it's probably a fine line as to what is the least damaging to other internal organs, when the time comes we won't let him linger on, it may be next week or next year depending how it advances but thanks to this marvellous site for information and knowledge and knowing we're not the only ones with an affected dog with this potentionally devastating desease.regards peter

SUPADOG
16th June 2008, 02:02 PM
Update,
Vet called today and asked how polo is doing,she is still waiting for some answers from chestergates and will call again later this week, mentioned concerns about giving him calpol but she said dose he was on was allright 3 times daily.I had only give one dose yesterday morning and missed out the afternoon dose and guess what happened last night at 10pm,he was rubbing his face on the floor and yelped and then sat in a corner and didn't want to move.I gave him a dose of calpol and as expected 45mins later he was back to his old self and able to be taken out for a short walk.Its not a clinical test i know but it seems to help him, Peter.