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sallymum
15th June 2008, 09:25 PM
Bonnie the cav i took on awhile ago with a grade 5 murmer is now doing very bad. She is coughing the whole time and nothing seems to ease it. Poor thing is sounding so distressed the whole time. Am bringing her to vets in the morning but is there anything i can do to ease things. I know i went through this with Sam but he didnt have this constant cough. Poor mite cant even get of the sofa without a coughing fit. Would Bonnie be as distressed as it sounds.

Claire L
15th June 2008, 10:22 PM
Sorry to hear that Bonnie is so poorly. Is she on any medication?? Usually Lasic is prescribed for the fluid build up that causes the cough. My Rudee was on lasic 1/2 tab twice daily but she only ever coughed once first thing in the morning.
I'm sure the Vet will prescribe something to give her relief. It must be very distressing for you watch her discomfort. :xfngr: you get some good help from the Vet.

sallymum
15th June 2008, 10:38 PM
Bonnie is on Lasic and vetmedin. Last time i was there about 2 weeks ago with the cough he said we were running out of options.

Claire L
15th June 2008, 10:50 PM
Mary, I'm sorry that I can't be of any help as I don't have great experience with coughing in Cavaliers but I found this link on a previous post http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/MVDincavaliers/ you might get some better info there.

frecklesmom
16th June 2008, 12:12 AM
Some little things to help would be a small fan, a pillow to lift (elevate) her head while resting, decrease walking time if you can carry her and soft food so that eating doesn't require a lot of energy -hard to eat and breathe at the same time- and you might set her bowls up higher so she keeps her lungs expanded as she drinks or eats. Keeping her cool will stress her less and help with being comfortable. No cures just comfort measures and I hope there are more to come.

Cleo's Person
16th June 2008, 11:56 AM
Sallymum, I'm so sorry that Bonnie isn't doing well. I have no advice but just wanted to let you know I'm thinking of you. :hug: :hug:

Karlin
16th June 2008, 12:06 PM
The Yahoo MVD list may well have some suggestions. Unfortunately though, by the time they are on these good medications but also still showing serious symptoms then mainly you are just giving palliative care and importantly: making sure your dog doesn't suffer unnecessarily or in a prolonged way, by making the difficult choices at a responsible time. It is always a heart-wrenching time for an owner and I'd consult very closely with your vet as to what your dog is experiencing and whether she is now in serious distress as s/he is the person who can best advise. Generally if she seems to be struggling and having a hard time, she is, and you need to make decisions about the quality of her life in consultation with your vet. :flwr:

sallymum
16th June 2008, 12:29 PM
Ur totally right Karlin. I know this is what the vet is going to say when i bring her down. I know i will have to make this decision prob today and i knew when i took her on a couple of months ago what would happen as was there last yr with Sam. Still glad i took her though as she has gave us lots of great times ,such an affectionate lady.
The hard thing about it is that she has, apart from this horrible cough, which she has nearly 24 hrs aday ,came on leaps and bounds. When we got her first she was a very poor eater sometimes going 2 days without eating and this wasnt been fussy. Now, even this morning, she loves her food she will eat twice aday. She still loves to be cuddled and if she could would still go on walks which is now impossible as god love her she will cough the whole way there and back, the walk we used to do is only up and down my street which crawling only takes 3-4 mins.

Claire L
16th June 2008, 01:37 PM
Mary, my thoughts and prayers are with you and Bonnie today :hug::hug:

ann
16th June 2008, 03:55 PM
I know just how you are feeling, I had to make a decision a couple of years ago with my 15 year old Yorki. We had the vet come to the house to let Toby slip away peacefully :(...and our cat died 'peacefully' just two months before Toby. They are buried at the bottom of our garden..
:hug: You are in my thoughts :(

Mary
16th June 2008, 04:53 PM
You are in my thoughts and prayers. Bonnie is so blessed to have you in her life and you are just as blessed to have been touched by this sweet lady. Thoughts are with you today as you may have to make some difficult decisions.

Barbara Nixon
16th June 2008, 05:34 PM
Bonnie is on Lasic and vetmedin. Last time i was there about 2 weeks ago with the cough he said we were running out of options.

Heard that of Izzy, who went on for 18 more months. His cough, brought on by exertion, didn't really bother him and his most obvious problem was rapid breathing, but except for two flare ups during hot weather , when he got Vetmedin, then more Vetmedin, this didn't bother him either. I took him to the vet twice , expecting the worst and being given a second chancd, so I dearly hope it's the same for you.

Monty's cough (more today, actually) is first thing, brief and doesn't bother him at all.

Monty is on Fortekor and Frusemide. Izzy was on Fortekor, then Fortekor with Vetmedin and eventually with Frusemide, as he had little fluid buildup, until his last months.

Monty has coughed a couple of extra times today, but I notice that the atmosphere has changed. A change whether good to bad or vice versa weather, always affected Izzy and a friend's poodle. When Izzy got to needing Frusemide, I used to increase his dose for a few days, if his symptoms lasted more than 24 hours. The vet said this was the thing to do, as he was taking a dose well below the safety level.

Claire L
18th June 2008, 10:47 PM
Just wondering how Bonnie is doing. Hope she got on well at the Vets :lotsaluv:

Elaine 2
18th June 2008, 10:57 PM
Thinking of you both

*Pauline*
18th June 2008, 11:13 PM
Thinking of you Mary, lots of love :hug: :hug:

Cathy Moon
19th June 2008, 02:19 AM
Thinking of you. Sending positive vibes across the ocean. :flwr:

chloe92us
19th June 2008, 02:38 AM
My poodle, Chloe (my screen name is after her) is my only pet to have ever gone to the bridge naturally. She had this same cough you're talking about for about 6 months before she passed. One night, we took all three of the dogs for a walk and she was in her carrier (she could no longer walk any distance) but loved to go. When we got back home, I set her carrier on the porch and held her while my hubby and I rocked and watched the world go by. Suddenly she let out a scream and had a heart attack right there on my lap. It was crazy, but I was so glad I didn't have to put her down I don't think I could have done it. She was my *special* one. I feel for you- this is never easy....it's so hard to be the judge of when the right time is. Good luck. I'm thinking about you.

TriTitch
19th June 2008, 03:31 AM
Sallysmum - Your situation brought tears to my eyes especially when you spoke of her progress :(
Best wishes to both/all of you how upsetting.
Chloe92us - Oh my goodness,how awful.

sallymum
19th June 2008, 08:34 PM
The vet has put bonnie now on Frusemide as well as the others. Also was givin a injection of Frusemide as well to help get rid of the Fluid. Hopefully things will settle down for awhile at least.
Anyone any ideas to make givin these tablets to Bonnie easier, she can be very sneaky and always seems to now when the tablets are hidden and spits them out.
Also thanks to everyone for ur advise and good wishes for Bonnie. :flwr:

brid kenny
19th June 2008, 08:56 PM
I wrap tablets in ham and they gobble them up!!

sallymum
19th June 2008, 09:02 PM
Tried it she eats the ham and leaves the tablets most of the time.

Karlin
19th June 2008, 09:06 PM
Cream cheese, Laughing Cow cheese, peanut butter, meat paste -- those often work. Usually frusemide is a tiny pill and pretty easy for an animal to swallow.

sallymum
19th June 2008, 09:20 PM
Must try the cheese she loves it.

Claire L
19th June 2008, 09:26 PM
I found the best way to give pills was to have the pill wrapped in some cheese/ meat etc and also have another piece in my other hand so that she could see it. She gobbled down the first piece (with the pill) in order to get the second piece :-p

Hope the Frusemide gives Bonnie a new lease of life.

Karlin
19th June 2008, 09:27 PM
I'd also maybe try crushing the tablet a bit so there's nothing specific to spit out, if the cheese doesn't work.

The frusemide may well give her quite a bit of time yet as it sounds like the coughing is mostly due to the excess water and that should clear it up.

sallymum
19th June 2008, 11:51 PM
Thanks everyone, the cheese spread works brill ,she didnt know it was there and just gobbled it down. Got the tab in her before but sometimes could take for ever.

Karlin
20th June 2008, 12:18 AM
I use Laughing Cow for Leo's pills and they vanish without a trace. :)

Love my Cavaliers
20th June 2008, 12:28 AM
Cream cheese also works great. Messy on your fingers though.
Bev

sallymum
22nd June 2008, 09:23 PM
Bonnies cough has nearly stopped altogether now the prob she has now is that the meds has made her incontinent(sp). The poor thing even pees while she is asleep which seems to upset her. Also yesterday eve while she was asleep on my young lads knee she suddenly jumped up in a state the poor thing had peed while sitting on his knee. I think Bonnie was more shocked than my son.

Claire L
22nd June 2008, 10:13 PM
:rah: I'm delighted the new meds are working for Bonnie. Sorry to hear about the incontinence though. I wonder if it is just a short term thing because of the dieuretics?? I certainly hope so.

Karlin
22nd June 2008, 10:23 PM
It takes them a while to adjust to frusemide. In general take them out several times after they've had the pill, for the first 90 minutes. Definitely get them out 30 minutes after the pill. Never give the pill less than several hours before bedtime so that again, you can take them out and their bladder is very empty overnight. I'd also only give it when you will be around for the next 90 minutes or so.

Leo was on frusemide for SM and it took him a week or two to realise he had a very full bladder right after. Sometimes he'd wet himself at night too. Leo could eventually last about 60 minutes before he had to go out but I wouldn't wait that long with an elderly dog and would get her out several times. She may not learn to go out on her own as they don;t expect to suddenly get such a full bladder. Frusemide is a diuretic -- like drinking a few cups of coffee for us. That is why it gets rid of the fluid that causes the cough. You just need to plan around the fact that she is going to need to go out a few times in that first 60-90 minutes after the pill.

Barbara Nixon
22nd June 2008, 10:48 PM
Monty's on 40mg of Frusemide and doesn't seem to wee any more than usual, but being a boy, he's used to marking all round the garden boundary. He has his second half in his dinner, so i always make sure he goes ot as soon as he finishes.

I'm using the remnants of a tub of primula cheeese for Monty's and teddy's meds, at the moment. I hate it because it's messy and monty finds it sticks to the roof of his mouth. They ,and I, much prefer pate.

sallymum
23rd June 2008, 12:25 AM
Bringing bonnie out every 30 mins for the first 2 hrs and then as much as i think she needs to go. Its just sometimes when she is asleep she is going which isnt like her. Im giving her the tablet which is 20 mg in the morning about 9 am.
I really dont mind as i think its a small price to pay. Im sure she will get used to the sensation of a full bladder and if she doesnt so what, its just she looks so suprised and shocked when she goes.
any tips for freshing her up when she has accidents as she can get a bit smelly and i dont want to keep bathing her,

Cathy Moon
24th June 2008, 03:09 AM
Bonnies cough has nearly stopped altogether now the prob she has now is that the meds has made her incontinent(sp). The poor thing even pees while she is asleep which seems to upset her. Also yesterday eve while she was asleep on my young lads knee she suddenly jumped up in a state the poor thing had peed while sitting on his knee. I think Bonnie was more shocked than my son.
That's wonderful her cough is going away. :flwr: She may have a bladder infection. If she seems uncomfortable, I would take a urine specimen in to the vet. My vet says that being on Lasix can make their urine so dilute that they become susceptible to infection. (I just found out this evening that Geordie has a bladder infection after being on Lasix for only 5 days. Now he's taking an antibiotic.)

Karlin
24th June 2008, 11:18 AM
You can rinse her legs with some warm water; you don't need to bathe her each time. Also -- it is common for them to go while sleeping like this, but it will probably settle down. After the first week or so it became very rare for Leo to go but it still sometimes happened.