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zenkar
8th July 2008, 07:57 PM
me and my wife are having trouble training gizmo.. Let me explain some things and maybe you can help us out with some advice and/or tips.

First off about going to the bathroom outside.. He has a little bell on the front door and he rings it when he wants to go out. Seems that he rings it even if he doesnt have to use the bathroom.. He likes to eat everything off the ground!! He rings the bell/barks to go out maybe 20+ times a day!!


He still goes to the bathroom inside as well.. He wont do it in his playpen where we leave him during work. we would love if he didnt use our dining room floor and living room carpet as a toilet bowl! any advice??

So my wife one day decided to give gizmo some meatloaf!!! ever since then he barks when we eat !! we gave up for a while and gave him some stuff but we have totally stopped and now going on the second week. he still at times begs/barks when we eat.. guessing he will get the point one day?

Might give in a get a trainer to come to the house but at $110/hour its expensive!!

littlelady
8th July 2008, 09:17 PM
How old is gizmo? for tips with going to toilet outside all i can suggest is putting gizmo outside when you come after food and water etc when he has gone to the toilet outside give a treat and make a big fuss, i have done this with ruby and she is brill at going out for the toilet, im sure someone will come along and give you more advice. good luck!

zenkar
8th July 2008, 09:33 PM
oh he gets treats when he gets back inside.. he runs right to them!! hes 7 months old

Shelli
8th July 2008, 09:39 PM
Hi, Before you get a trainer I'd recommend getting one of Ian Dunbars books. Offers really good advice on all aspects of training. I never leave Ollie, 13 wks old, out of my sight indoors. If I can't watch him then he goes in his crate. I bring him outside every hour and give him lots of praise and a treat if he goes to the toilet, if not he goes back in his crate and we try again a while later.
As for the begging at meal times, maybe give him a kong or something to amuse him while you eat. I've never had this problem so I cant offer much advice.
I'm sure someone will be along soon who knows what to do. Hope this helps :)

Karlin
9th July 2008, 01:48 AM
I am not sure I understand -- if he is in a pen during the day how is he then able to go inside? Is he being let out and allowed to wander out of sight where he has the ability to go? If so, then that's your problem: he is being given the freedom of a housetrained dog and isn;t yet housetrained. It is also a far longer process to housetrain a dog if people are at work during the day -- it means he doesn't get the consistent message that he is always taken outside (not simply left to ring bells) and he should be treated and rewarded utside at the time he finishes, not brought back inside first. He simply thinks he is rewarded for going inside from outside -- not rewarded for correct toiletting behaviour. You always must reward the wanted behaviour at the precise moment of the desired behaviour -- dogs will not make a connection to something they did several minutes or even 20 seconds earlier.

I'd suggest also getting Shirlee Kalstone's book on housetraining as it will carefully outline methods for doing this successfully. But really the answer is: 100% supervision, 100% of the time, unless he is safely in his pen; consistent rewards; no punishment; reasonable expectations (eg at 7 moths he is only like a 3 year old. he might sometimes get it right but he will also have mistakes and get it wrong. You need to be there to manage for the right behaviour and restrict his activity so he cant just roam around toiletting inside. The fact that he is able to go at all indicates there isn;t sufficient supervision and that this is now a habit that will take time and very focused training to resolve. eg you must now absolutely guarantee he has no opportunity for accidents. That in essence is what housetraining is about -- the owner taking the time to make sure the dog never has the opportunity to make mistakes. That's a thousand times more effective that trying to correct unwanted mistakes because lack of supervision allowed mistakes to happen regularly. :thmbsup:

Barking for food -- ignore it. Do not respond, don't scold, do not even look at the dog (all of this is positive reinforcement -- even scolding is *attention* and a reward). Dogs will eventually give up but as you have found, give in once and the reward for the behaviour has been established and it can take a long time for the dog to realise it will not be repeated. :lol: PS the behaviour will often become worse before it is fully extinguished.

Also: please read the thread pinned at the top of the forum: the one thing to read about your dog. Both those links there should be of help -- worth printing those pages for reference.

He is also well into the age at which you should actually take him to a rewards based training class rther then spending a lot of money to have a trainer come to your home (not one where they use leash 'corrections' or punishment or choke chains) -- plus all dogs benefit from a multi-dog environment, especially dogs that do not meet enough dogs outside the home. Obedience and the structure for self control this gives the dog will help all areas of behaviour enormously. And always remember to praise your dog when it is relaxed and doing what you want, even if that is just hanging out and watching activity calmly. Praised and rewarded behaviour tends to be repeated. Dogs spend too much of their lives hearing 'no' and too little being rewarded for general good behaviour. :) Well behaved dogs are those that can easily recall the behaviours their owners like -- eg hanging out calmly.

mhabca
9th July 2008, 04:38 AM
When we first got our poochie bells, Mika rang them all the time too. I think she was about 4 months old or so. I think she liked the idea that she could control me so well! I took her out every time though, since she was still housetraining and I didn't want to miss the times she really had to go. She has not had a single accident since we got the bells, so I think all those trips were worth it.

Now that the newness of the bells has worn off and she is housetrained, she only rings them when she actually has to go, so in our case anyway, it does get better.

zenkar
9th July 2008, 05:33 PM
I am not sure I understand -- if he is in a pen during the day how is he then able to go inside? Is he being let out and allowed to wander out of sight where he has the ability to go? If so, then that's your problem: he is being given the freedom of a housetrained dog and isn;t yet housetrained. It is also a far longer process to housetrain a dog if people are at work during the day -- it means he doesn't get the consistent message that he is always taken outside (not simply left to ring bells) and he should be treated and rewarded utside at the time he finishes, not brought back inside first. He simply thinks he is rewarded for going inside from outside -- not rewarded for correct toiletting behaviour. You always must reward the wanted behaviour at the precise moment of the desired behaviour -- dogs will not make a connection to something they did several minutes or even 20 seconds earlier.

I'd suggest also getting Shirlee Kalstone's book on housetraining as it will carefully outline methods for doing this successfully. But really the answer is: 100% supervision, 100% of the time, unless he is safely in his pen; consistent rewards; no punishment; reasonable expectations (eg at 7 moths he is only like a 3 year old. he might sometimes get it right but he will also have mistakes and get it wrong. You need to be there to manage for the right behaviour and restrict his activity so he cant just roam around toiletting inside. The fact that he is able to go at all indicates there isn;t sufficient supervision and that this is now a habit that will take time and very focused training to resolve. eg you must now absolutely guarantee he has no opportunity for accidents. That in essence is what housetraining is about -- the owner taking the time to make sure the dog never has the opportunity to make mistakes. That's a thousand times more effective that trying to correct unwanted mistakes because lack of supervision allowed mistakes to happen regularly. :thmbsup:

Barking for food -- ignore it. Do not respond, don't scold, do not even look at the dog (all of this is positive reinforcement -- even scolding is *attention* and a reward). Dogs will eventually give up but as you have found, give in once and the reward for the behaviour has been established and it can take a long time for the dog to realise it will not be repeated. :lol: PS the behaviour will often become worse before it is fully extinguished.

Also: please read the thread pinned at the top of the forum: the one thing to read about your dog. Both those links there should be of help -- worth printing those pages for reference.

He is also well into the age at which you should actually take him to a rewards based training class rther then spending a lot of money to have a trainer come to your home (not one where they use leash 'corrections' or punishment or choke chains) -- plus all dogs benefit from a multi-dog environment, especially dogs that do not meet enough dogs outside the home. Obedience and the structure for self control this gives the dog will help all areas of behaviour enormously. And always remember to praise your dog when it is relaxed and doing what you want, even if that is just hanging out and watching activity calmly. Praised and rewarded behaviour tends to be repeated. Dogs spend too much of their lives hearing 'no' and too little being rewarded for general good behaviour. :) Well behaved dogs are those that can easily recall the behaviours their owners like -- eg hanging out calmly.


thanks!! and thanks to everyone else.. I am starting today 100% supervision or the pen he goes! :)

Rosewoodsteel
9th July 2008, 08:11 PM
We let Charlie go out, on his line, anytime he wants.
I've found, however, he sometimes goes out but does not attend to business. This isn't the case when he goes for a walk, so we make it a habit to walk him frequently.
I don't know if it's unique to Charlie, or Cavaliers in general, but they sometimes need to "loosen up" a bit before they are motivated. :paw:

Karlin
9th July 2008, 11:27 PM
Now that the newness of the bells has worn off and she is housetrained, she only rings them when she actually has to go, so in our case anyway, it does get better.

Yes, this is very common. Most of the training material for training to bells or buzzers etc says this -- they go through a short phase of trying them all the time then settle down. :)

nicola
11th July 2008, 03:16 AM
What kind of bells do you use?