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jeni
6th August 2008, 06:15 PM
Can anyone offer me some understanding on showing a cavalier with ticking (freckles) from what I read and can see, it is frowned upon? But most recently I attended a dog show where a gentleman had two younger cavaliers (8 months) that had heavy ticking.
Can the folks out there that show dogs please tell me how you feel about this, and if it should or should not be done?
Thank you-

Karlin
6th August 2008, 06:29 PM
I know breeders say markings are the least important aspect of a dog -- structure, temperament, soundness and movement are all more important. Many say the head and its markings are the most important. But heavy ticking generally would be felt to go against a dog. I think you'd need a pretty spectacular dog to have him/her not be marked down for being mismarked. Going on what has been said here in the past, I would think that ticking on the head would go more against a dog than ticking on the legs for example. You don't see many show dogs with ticking. You may see people who are showing dogs with ticking but the issue is whether they do well. :) I am sure our show hands will be more specific!

jeni
7th August 2008, 06:56 PM
Thanks for the advise Karlin- can any other show folks offer any input?

Nancy
7th August 2008, 07:19 PM
I'd never show a dog with heavy ticking or a multitude of freckles. One or two is ok, but you want clean markings, and clean white, even if markings not perfect.

WoodHaven
7th August 2008, 07:47 PM
http://www.woodhavencavaliers.com/

The picture to the right and down is Topper-- Topper is an AKC champion.

Topper had 5 freckles on his face. It didn't even slow him down. But I do have to say he is the right height, length, dark lovely eyes, well set ears etc...

Ticking and freckles that distract from the overall look of the cavalier will count heavily against a dog.

Daisy's Mom
7th August 2008, 08:59 PM
Wow, Topper is beautiful. Daisy has 5 equally spaced freckles around her nose. Hers are maybe a little more prominent than his, though, at least from what I can tell from the picture. In all the Cavalier shows I've been to, I've never seen very many freckles on the dogs.

Daisy's not a show dog, but she is perfect for us!

I tend to not like freckles, so I was kind of disappointed when I first saw our Daisy at the breeder's when we picked her up. But I'm OK with them now. Our neighbor's Cavalier has very heavy ticking all over his legs and elsewhere. They loved them and that's why they picked him!

Lozzy100
7th August 2008, 10:18 PM
I do show my dogs, and to be honest i have seen many cavvies that are very heavily mismarked get placed, it all depends on the judge on the day of the show...they mostly do go on colour, movement eyes and head etc etc, i would just say go for it and enjoy it, you may get somewhere and you may not, but just remember you will ALWAYS take home the BEST dog x have you got a pic of your dog, as i could tell you more from that x


Hugs Loz x

Daisy's Mom
8th August 2008, 01:26 AM
Your post made me remember a Cavalier I saw at a show last year. The little thing was almost completely white, she was so lightly marked. She barely had a mask and only had a couple of very small blenheim patches if I remember correctly. I remember shaking my head and saying "Poor thing -- she'll not do too well." Well, of course, she won her class! I couldn't believe it! She must have had qualities that were not obvious to me.

I'm pretty clueless about conformation, but if I were a judge, I know I would probably be crazy for dog's faces and beautiful markings. I just think Cavalier faces are so beautiful, and their markings are so showy.

Karlin
8th August 2008, 02:28 AM
and to be honest i have seen many cavvies that are very heavily mismarked get placed, it all depends on the judge on the day of the show..

What level of show are you talking about? I'd be really surprised if at club level shows, heavily mismarked cavaliers are regularly being placed? :eek: I don't know any UK show breeders of any repute who would show heavily mismarked dogs.

hbmama
8th August 2008, 05:45 AM
All the AKC shows that I have been at (as a drooling spectator) have had cavaliers that look like the ones in magazines. Very few had freckles and I would say none were obviously "heavily mismarked." Most blenheims had the spot on top of the head and clean white faces with lovely masks and flowing coats.

Show breeders place most of their offspring in loving pet homes as the true show quality dogs with the whole package don't come up that often. The ones that make it into the ring are usually gorgeous.

Bruce H
8th August 2008, 12:15 PM
Ticking is such a judgement call on the part of the judge. We don't show a dog with heavy ticking, but like Sandy said, a little ticking is generally acceptable. The trick is the definition of heavy ticking and that definition varies friom judge to judge. If you have a dog that is really good in other respects, then a little ticking probably won't matter in most cases. But if you have a dog that is just average, you may end up just being point fodder.

IMHO, coat should be the least important thing, but then I'm not a judge. Are you considering showing a dog with some ticking? Could you post a couple close pictures that a few of us who show could look at?

WoodHaven
8th August 2008, 01:26 PM
I agree with Bruce-- coat/markings have to take a back seat to how well made a dog is. The judges spend a considerable time running their hands over the dog- feeling for the angles of the joints, length and amount of bone- muscular definition etc... Then they watch how all that moves together (down and backs, front view, side view and rear view). Pigment, teeth-- the dog really is picked apart. Temperament, training, it all goes into the reasons a judge picks a winner.

jeni
8th August 2008, 04:45 PM
It has been a while since I posted a pic but I will try-
http://board.cavaliertalk.com/picture.php?albumid=74&pictureid=680

jeni
8th August 2008, 04:49 PM
I know that she is young now- and it is hard to judge. I really want to "learn" how to show dogs and the best way I know how to learn is to try it. I don't know where to begin. We have a dog show coming to town in October and my pup will be 1 week shy of 6 months. So I suspect I have some time to learn and some time to train her.

WoodHaven
8th August 2008, 05:05 PM
Ticking (freckles) tends to get worse until they are about a year. Topper had 3 freckles at age 8 months ( when we got him ). He got two more before he was full grown.

If you can find a handling class, the time spent training isn't time wasted, even if you don't show your pup. It is a great bonding experience.

jeni
8th August 2008, 05:07 PM
I will check into the class. I have purchased several books (which I haven't recieved yet) I feel she will train so easily when she is young. She is already brilliant with a leash, and learning new commands by the day. She is very smart. I figured just doing it is a better learning tool...

Lozzy100
8th August 2008, 07:57 PM
What level of show are you talking about? I'd be really surprised if at club level shows, heavily mismarked cavaliers are regularly being placed? :eek: I don't know any UK show breeders of any repute who would show heavily mismarked dogs.

When i shown my boy at the midland counties there was a few with no to little feathers, also heavy mismarked tris there, and yes they were getting placed....but after wards we were told that the ones that got threw knew the judge. how true that is i dont know, because i hve not been in the game all that long, but i know a mismarked cav when i see one. x

Karlin
8th August 2008, 09:25 PM
By mismarked, what do you mean? Heavily blanketed? For tris, this would not be that unusual for the dog to do well, if the dogs are otherwise very sound. Little feathering would depend on age. And at every show people say the ones that get through are the ones the judge knows. :lol: That is always said at shows, so it is hard to know whether it's true. :)

Karlin
8th August 2008, 09:33 PM
I'd go back to the original breeder perhaps to discuss the possibility of showing and is s/he thinks this is possible with the pup you have?

If you want to get involved in showing it makes most sense to get involved with your regional cavalier club first so that you can get to know the breed and what would be valued in a show ring, attend a lot of cavalier shows, and see if you can get a mentor to work with you. You might also be able to get someone in the club to give you an evaluation of the dog you are thinking of showing.

Rather than step straight into a serious show and maybe not having a very pleasant experience, it can be a good idea to do some fun shows where there's less pressure and to learn how to handle a dog, too :). Also do some handling classes and as noted, get involved with the cavalier clubs. Bruce has posted in the past about how this is a really good way to learn the breed, makes some connections and know what you are doing before stepping into a ring.

Bruce H
9th August 2008, 12:29 AM
OK, I looked at her picture Cute pup, BTW). Right now I would say she is kind of borderline for the ticking. The thing I would be concerned about is whether she gets more ticking as she gets older; they tend to do that sometimes. I think the suggestion someone had of talking to the breeder was an excellent one. The breeder will be able to tell you if she is showable. I know we sure get excited when one of our puppy people says they are interested in showing!

Just a basic question that occurred to me: I assume you bought her on open papers so you can show her.

Because she won't be old enough to show at your local show, I would go to the show and watch, not just the Cavaliers, but any breed they put on a table to examine. I think you will find that it really isn't very complicated. It helps to also buy a catalog and you can kind of follow along by watching the armband numbers as the various handlers and their dogs go in the ring. I think they also have handouts (or used to at least) at the Superintendent's table that explains the basics of how a show works. And finally, you can get a lot of information online at the AKC web site on the workings of a show.

Daisy's Mom
9th August 2008, 04:55 AM
Daisy's freckles definitely got larger and darker as she got older, until about a year and a half. I'd say they've stabilized since then. She's actually got a lot of them under her white fur, which you have to really look closely to see at all. Last summer, her hair got very thin for some reason, and you could see them through the white hair, which alarmed me. For some reason, this summer, although it's been very hot, she's kept most of her coat. She went through a bout with gastritis (or gastroentiritis) last summer, so maybe that contributed.

Your pup's a cutie, BTW. I've read or heard somewhere that if a freckle touches her black nose, it doesn't "count." That's probably one judge's opinion, I'm sure, but from looking at your puppy, it reminded me of that.

jeni
10th August 2008, 02:54 AM
Thanks everyone for the great advise. I will be joining a local Kennel club and for sure trying to find some of these fun shows. How do you find out about the location of these shows? Through the clubs?
I have learned how to look up the AKC shows but not the others...
Thank you again-

Bruce H
10th August 2008, 10:14 AM
I have always found out about the fun matches through the clubs.

Cathy Moon
10th August 2008, 06:53 PM
Thanks everyone for the great advise. I will be joining a local Kennel club and for sure trying to find some of these fun shows. How do you find out about the location of these shows? Through the clubs?
I have learned how to look up the AKC shows but not the others...
Thank you again-
If you scroll down on this link, it will show you the local AKC cavalier breed clubs: http://www.ackcsc.org/contacts.htm

If you scroll down on this link, it will show the regional CKCSC-USA breed clubs: http://www.ckcsc.org/ckcsc/ckcsc_inc.nsf/Founded-1954/regional.html

If there are no cavalier clubs near you, you could always join an AKC all breed kennel club (just select your state and nothing else and all clubs in your state will be listed): http://www.akc.org/clubs/search/index.cfm?action=conf&display=on

inca
23rd August 2008, 03:11 PM
When i shown my boy at the midland counties there was a few with no to little feathers, also heavy mismarked tris there, and yes they were getting placed....but after wards we were told that the ones that got threw knew the judge. how true that is i dont know, because i hve not been in the game all that long, but i know a mismarked cav when i see one. x

everyone showing knows the judge its a smal circle a heavily marked tri for example would get placed over a better broken colour if his-her confirmation was better some judges perfer a better mover than the coat .

jeni
25th August 2008, 07:18 PM
Okay- can someone suggest a good website or store where I can purchase some of the items I will need to get me started? Show leads and such???
Thank you-