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frecklesmom
19th August 2008, 01:38 AM
After reading this article, my head is spinning. Wish the film showed over here.

http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/tv_and_radio/article4561098.ece

Cathy T
19th August 2008, 02:40 AM
There's a discussion going on in the SM/MVD forum on this film. I wish we were getting here in the States.



The club spokesman said that “90 per cent of all pure-breed dogs were healthy”


I find this statement incredibly difficult to believe.

Arlene
19th August 2008, 03:10 AM
I just noticed that statement too, and quickly did the math. Even if this is true, with 3/4's of 70 million dogs being pedigree in the UK, and only 90% healthy, almost 5 million are not.

Hmmmm. Should we really be satisfied with 90% healthy? I ask because I really don't know what to feel about that statement. Does anyone know if there is a reference to this number somewhere, or is it from thin air?

Arlene and her three: JP - Alaskan Husky, Missie - Cavalier x Tibetan Spaniel mix, Rocky - All Sporty Cavalier.

Cathy T
19th August 2008, 03:49 AM
The statement was in the article. Made by a spokeman for the Kennel Club.

Arlene
19th August 2008, 04:44 AM
Oh Cathy. I hope I wasn't misunderstood. I know the statement was made by the Kennel Club spokesperson. I just don't know where they came up with that 90% figure, and I was curious.

I tend to be science/math oriented and I do try to keep up with dog - breed - longevity surveys and statistics and as well as keep an overview of health problems in the more common breeds. I don't know where this number could have come from for him to put out there. I'm curious about that.

Arlene and her three: JP - Alaskan Husky, Missie - Cavalier x Tibetan Spaniel mix, Rocky - All Sporty Cavalier.

Cathy Moon
19th August 2008, 05:14 AM
Oh Cathy. I hope I wasn't misunderstood. I know the statement was made by the Kennel Club spokesperson. I just don't know where they came up with that 90% figure, and I was curious.

I tend to be science/math oriented and I do try to keep up with dog - breed - longevity surveys and statistics and as well as keep an overview of health problems in the more common breeds. I don't know where this number could have come from for him to put out there. I'm curious about that.
Arlene, I'm curious about that too. It may be their definition of 'health' that we're wondering about. :confused:

FranklinFreckles
19th August 2008, 08:31 AM
This is one of the reasons that I have never bought into the claim that you *must* buy your pet from a show breeder. I am sure that some show breeders are excellent and produce puppies that are not only beautiful but healthy and strong and sound and with the perfect personalities.

I understand the goal of preserving and improving upon the breed. But seriously, when you are showing and being competitive over superficial structural and visual qualities, sometimes health and temperament get overlooked. Inbreeding and linebreeding are primarily done for looks, are they not? I would trust a breeder who breeds for health and temperment first and foremost and looks as an afterthought. Kennel blindness is much better than all of these breed specific problems that pop up in pure bred dogs bred to look a certain way.

Karlin
19th August 2008, 11:59 AM
The issue is not that you must buy from a show breeder, but that you really MUST buy from a show breeder that you take the time to research to know that they breed for health.

One thing I can absolutely guarantee -- anyone who is not formally involved with dogs, which generally means showing but can mean other dog sports and competition -- is DEFINITELY NOT breeding for health. First off no reputable breeder with healthy dogs would sell to the pet market breeder or leave their dogs on open registration to allow them to breed. Second they will not spend the time or money to do the testing, use the health tested studs, and breed properly.

I can tell you that in Ireland, where few breeders test and there is a HUGE pet market of casual breeders with IKC registered dogs, the breed is devastated by MVD. At least half my rescue dogs, almost NONE of which have come from show breeders (I believe only two did) have early onset murmurs (before age 5). By contrast, the three dogs I own from reputable show breeders known for good heart lines remain heart clear (at five) or have a very low grade murmur that appeared at age 8.

The issue in this film is NOT just show breeders but *ALL breeders that do not breed for health or have bred dogs with appearances that compromise health*. Many would feel that the CKCS now fits into the latter category because of the flat nose and skull shape that is too small for the brain (as Clare Rusbridge says, it is like a size 10 foot squeezing into a size 7 shoe).

I am absolutely sick of casual breeders and pet market breeders for pedigree dogs because these more than anything decimate a breed because they pass around ALL the health issues. MVD is as prominent as it is in good part because the CKCS became hugely popular after a 1970s BIS Crufts win and the BYBs and mass breeders and BYBs got into the business.

The bottom line for puppy buyers:

DO YOUR RESEARCH, ASK FOR THE HEALTH CERTS, SUPPORT GOOD HEALTH FOCUSED BREEDERS, DON'T BUY FROM CASUAL BREEDERS OR YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM.

hbmama
19th August 2008, 08:38 PM
Karlin, all I can say is, AMEN, AMEN, AMEN!

A REPUTABLE show breeder WILL follow the Club Code of Ethics, with HEALTH clearances generations back, and watch that the dog has a TEMPERAMENT that is consistant with the breed standard. These things come BEFORE beauty and gait in the ring.

This is why the great majority of puppys from show breeders are placed on spay/neuter contracts to approved homes. Very few are show quality, but thankfully for us, (the pet owners) the odds of having a myriad of inherited health issues is somewhat decreased or at least staved off until the dog has lived a longer life.

There are still no clear answers on SM/CM but now that studies are being initiated, these conditions may be reduced in future years with responsible breeding and MRI screening.