View Full Version : BBC news - related to forthcoming docu...

19th August 2008, 01:40 PM

Not sure if this little video will work outside of the UK, due to copyright... but worth a try for those of you across the water!

19th August 2008, 02:31 PM
Video worked well. Thank you for posting.:p

19th August 2008, 02:52 PM
I've added a link to the video to my SM site as it has a good example of SM scratching.

19th August 2008, 03:23 PM
Yes I thought that too. The video footage was a good example. Poor wee soul!

19th August 2008, 05:53 PM
Just seen some clips on this (on tonight at 9pm BBC 1) it should be an interesting watch, but some of the clips look quite sad.

19th August 2008, 05:58 PM
Just seen some clips on this (on tonight at 9pm BBC 1) it should be an interesting watch, but some of the clips look quite sad.

Its not on until Friday for me... up in Scotland! :rolleyes: Everyone will be discussing it, and I wont have seen it yet!

19th August 2008, 07:02 PM
Here's another link... similar to the first but longer...


19th August 2008, 07:13 PM
Ashley, thankyou for posting that link for those of us in the States. It is heartbreaking, but awareness and breeding away from these genetic issues is the key to diminishing health problems in the breed.

19th August 2008, 07:28 PM
Ashley, thankyou for posting that link for those of us in the States. It is heartbreaking, but awareness and breeding away from these genetic issues is the key to diminishing health problems in the breed.

No problem. I'm just glad they worked! I'm sure the programme will be available online at some point as well, so you will be able to view it then. :xfngr:

19th August 2008, 08:58 PM
Just waiting for it to come on BBC1 now. Think it may be upsetting, but people need to know.

btw, Ashley, I've pm'd you on the Trust forum :)

19th August 2008, 09:20 PM
I've replied to you through this site, by pm! :D

Emma n Renco
19th August 2008, 10:10 PM
What a distressing documentary, why oh why would anyone knowingly put their dog and many other dogs through this. Utter negligance - the poor poor dogs. I watched that documentary as a viewer without knowledge of breeding standards and the kennel club etc as my cavs were just bought as pets.

Was this an accurate documentary in the portrayal of the kennel club and breeding standards? Is this really such a sad truth that is well known about? and one that is ignored in the strive for beauty and prizes?

Congratulations to all of those people that fight against the spread of this dreadful disease in this beautiful breed. (Not only the cavs of course) it's horrendous how this can happen in today's society.


19th August 2008, 10:17 PM
I can't believe the woman who has let her dog sire 26 litters since being diagnosed with sm (although she denies this claim)

Absolutely disgraceful!

And as for mother/son brother/sister matings - It makes you wonder what their "human" families are like:bang:

19th August 2008, 10:17 PM
I just watched it. I thought those people were a disgrace. I can't believe that woman bred her dog knowing he had SM.

I also don't believe that the woman who was campaigning for testing of SM is disliked amongst the Cavalier community like it was made out she was.

I really am appalled.

And poor little Danny winning best of show when he can barely breathe or walk :(

19th August 2008, 10:30 PM
I am also disgusted at the woman who knowingly bred from an affected dog!!!!:bang:

I think the breeders shown weren't the best examples as they seemed cold and just concerned with what their dogs looked like. I know that all responsible breeders will do all the testing they can to eradicate this awful disease but I agree that the KC should change their "blueprint" to ensure that dogs are just bred for "health" as opposed to "looks"

19th August 2008, 10:33 PM
And the way the other breeders reacted to the producer of the show outside the house of Lords BECAUSE the producer had the nerve to question that irresponsible woman who was breeding her "best in show" SM affected cavalier!!! I really wanted to run after them and clobber them over the head. Claire Rusbridge is so right. Those women who think they're these wonderful breeders, beyond questioning even, may as well be taking sticks to beat their dogs and their litters with.

19th August 2008, 10:51 PM
hat the woman who was campaigning for testing of SM

That's Carol Fowler; she is a member of the board. :)

I am proud to know many health-focused breeders as well. Sadly many of them are marginalised by the breeders-that-be.

Imagine though if the official attitude is what you saw, and that only 25% of CKCS puppies registered by the UK KC are club breeders, that the other 75% are even less likely to do a single health-related thing on behalf of their litters. And then there are all the casual bred and puppy farmed cavaliers.

Now weigh up the evidence and decide if you think cavaliers, with both SM and MVD, stand a chance in the medium to long term. :mad:

19th August 2008, 11:26 PM
what got to me was even tho she was obviously showing SM signs her tail was still wagging.

19th August 2008, 11:43 PM
That's Carol Fowler; she is a member of the board. :)

Good on you Carol :thmbsup: and Karlin for your SM site and all the advice. I don't know what we'd do without you.

19th August 2008, 11:50 PM
she is?! FAB!!

19th August 2008, 11:51 PM
Ah, if Carol Fowler is a member then that explains the subtle nod to CavalierTalk!

20th August 2008, 11:20 AM
my husband and i watched this programme last night, we couldn't believe the woman who bred from her dog, even though he has SM. Crazy. we also found it upsetting about the boxer dog who had epilepsy (clearly in pain) , and the woman who had the cavalier with SM and she was out taking it for a walk, i struggle to understand people who put their animals through this when they are clearly suffering, i think at some point you have to do what's best for the animal, not yourself.

it makes you wonder how many breeders put dogs to sleep if they are not "perfect", such as the ridgeback. nearly the whole programme was on cavaliers though, which shows how poorly these dogs can be.

20th August 2008, 12:08 PM
A friend of mine living close by has a young Cavalier, a Tri bitch, sired by that affected winning dog at Malvern...little Dixie has now been MRI scanned and found to be affected with SM :( she depends on her steroids daily to keep her comfortable.
The lady that owns her is elderly and has found this emotionally hard to cope with, sadly there is no insurance in place either causing some possible financial upset in the future....Dixie was showing signs at 8 months. There is a litter sister living close by as well, showing all signs of SM but as of today is still unscanned. Again living with an elderly owner that cannot afford the MRI.

Perhaps the owner of this stud dog might like to pick up some of the vet bills relating to SM? especially for those owners that have pups that were born after her dogs MRI scan...it's just disgusting and totally irresponsible behaviour to knowingly use your dog at stud when affected with SM don't you think?.

I mean 30+ stud fees at possibly £500 a time= £15.000! thats a lot of money.


Claire L
20th August 2008, 12:23 PM
Surely Alison, after last nights revelations :eek: that woman can be sued ???
She has to be held accountable for what she has done.

20th August 2008, 12:24 PM
. Again living with an elderly owner that cannot afford the MRI.

I was told by my vet today there is a research program near me, which offers MRI scans to dogs who qualify for free. I can't remember the name of the town but it's 45 mins from me and I'm in Essex near Southend. She said it's up the M25.

20th August 2008, 12:25 PM
What was the name of the dog who won that show and has SM?

20th August 2008, 12:49 PM
That's Carol Fowler; she is a member of the board. :)

I thought she was wonderful. You could just tell how much she loves Cavaliers. I loved the picture of her with her first dog who died when she was five from SM. Such a loving picture.

I was so mad at the woman who, when asked about SM, said "all dogs scratch" :mad:

20th August 2008, 01:10 PM
but lets not forget that as well as the terrible condition of SM, there is also "dry eye/curly coat" which is not very well known about by vets or most people. my daisy had this horrible condition and only lived for a year (15 September will be a year since we had her put to sleep). She couldn't eat properly, had eye infections, ear infections, and was on a lot of medication, had holes in her feet and her claws fell out making her unable to walk, and that is just a few of the symptoms. it makes me so angry that the breeder where we got her from is still advertising that she has puppies for sale. some days i want to go and stand outside her house and tell people not to buy from her. Our 2 cavaliers now (from a different breeder), Bluebell and Lottie are in good health but who knows for the future. i miss daisy every day and still get upset now, and in truth once i have lost Bluebell and Lottie i don't think we will get another cavalier again.

20th August 2008, 01:37 PM
Dry eye/curly coat is especially devastating as dogs rarely are able to live very long with it and it is so uncomfortable for the dog after a time. This is an entirely genetically induced disease associated only with cavaliers in this combination. And breeding dogs known to produce it spread those genes as well far and wide through the breed. *This is why pet owners should NOT be ever, ever breeding their dogs, even if they think they have a 'perfect specimen'*. That perfectly healthy cavalier could carry the genes for any of these conditions and can throw puppies with them -- knowing lines, doing the tests and understanding genetics thoroughly are the necessary combination for healthy breeding.

What amazes me is the continuous line from certain breeders (and last night, the head of the Kennel Club himself) that they pay no attention to the scientists on line breeding and genetic issues as they, the breeders, have all the expertise and know better. Yet look at the state of most breeds! Most only have the narrow vision of a generation of breeding; most think their breed is as it always 'traditionally' was. Yet look at any pictures of any breed going back a few decades, including cavaliers, and you can see changes. Breeding decisions today affect puppies that people will own 50 years from now. Sadly some poor genes were selected for in the cavalier hence we are burdened with MVD and SM in the breed. If EFS and Curly Coat become more common -- as it already seems they are -- how can this breed possibly survive?