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bimmerguy288
23rd August 2008, 01:45 AM
Hi all,

First a little bit of recent history: We picked up our Mickey from our dog sitter’s home on July 25th when we returned from our vacation. In the following week, I noticed that he had loose stools, not really watery, but loose. He pooped twice or three times a day, which was normal. On Aug 1st I took him to the vet and was told he picked up some bacteria. He was given antibiotics (Metronidazole). The vet also suggested that we switch to Royal Canin Veterinary Diet for that period. There was no improvement four or five days later so the vet doubled the antibiotics dosage for another four or five days, and gave him Panacur Suspension (a kind of dewormer?). After the treatment Mickey had solid stools for two or three days, then he had real bad diarrhea for one day. I called the vet on Aug 16th and took him to the vet’s office to be looked at. This time I was told he had some kind of spiral bacteria. The vet gave him a different kind of antibiotics for 10 days. It’s has been a week but still no improvement.

Here is the strange thing: We have been feeding him in his crate since we got him in Jan. He is now 10 months old. In the past, he would gobble his kibbles right away as soon as we put the bowl in the crate. But in the last week he didn’t seem to want his kibbles, he would eat a bit then left or didn’t eat them at all for hours. But he liked our chicken and turkey (just little bits and pieces), of which we have been giving him for many months. Today I took the kibbles from his blow in the crate and put them in my hand to feed him, he ate every bit of it but he would not eat from the bowl! I thought maybe he didn’t like the bowl anymore but when I put bits of chicken in the bowl, he ate them right the way. Other than that, he behaves pretty normal. What gives?

TIA. Sorry for the long post.

Bimmerguy

Cathy Moon
23rd August 2008, 03:03 AM
It sounds like he's getting picky about eating. But he needs to get over the loose stools.

If he is still having diarrhea, try this:

Cook some white rice (not brown rice!)
Get lean ground beef (I get ground sirloin) put it in the frying pan with water and boil it. After it's fully cooked, pour off the water, the fat will go with it.

For his meals, mix 50-50 white rice and boiled beef. Serve at room temperature, warm it up after removing from fridge. If you serve it cold it will cause his digestive system to have spasms leading to more diarrhea.

You can also buy the following supplements at Pet Supplies Plus:
Nutrical Puppy - vitamins to keep his diet balanced
Bene Bac - beneficial bacteria for his intestines, antibiotics can kill off the beneficial bacteria along with the bad.

Feed him this until his stools are firm, then slowly phase in his kibble over a week's time.

Hope this helps! :flwr:

Karlin
23rd August 2008, 11:53 AM
And read this:

http://board.cavaliertalk.com/showthread.php?t=24168

Do NOT start hand feeding or let him transfer his interest only to the meat! he needs a balanced diet, he needs to eat normally without being cajoled or this leads to more problems and gets worse and worse, and he needs to know he has 10 minutes to eat his food then it leaves the crate and doesn't return, with NO snacks in between, until his next scheduled feeding time.

Cathy gave some good advice on the diet side :thmbsups: but do not let an illness enable him to also manipulate the situation so that mealtime turns into attention time.

*Pauline*
23rd August 2008, 12:04 PM
Very good advice there. I've had the same problem with Dylan in the past. I have to say sometimes the special food from the vet upsets their tummies too, I found that with Royal Canin intestinal canned food.

I make the same meal as Cathy if Dylan has an upset tummy but I boil my rice with chicken breast in the same pan and the stock flavours the rice. Not much fat in chicken breast. Then make up 50/50 rice and meat.

bimmerguy288
23rd August 2008, 10:28 PM
Thank you all!

*Pauline*
23rd August 2008, 10:35 PM
How is Mickey now? :)

littlelady
23rd August 2008, 10:44 PM
Ruby gets upset stomach very often, I do boiled rice and chicken and it clears up fast! I fed ruby on royal canin dried food and it really upset her stomach, I think each dog is different,I Hope Mickey is better.

Cathy Moon
23rd August 2008, 11:47 PM
I hope Mickey is better too. :xfngr::xfngr::paw::paw::paw:

I used to boil lamb when I could get it, but now I have to use beef (both Geordie and India cannot handle chicken). Lamb is usually very fatty though, at our market.

bimmerguy288
24th August 2008, 01:10 AM
How is Mickey now? :)

He didn't eat his dinner (the kibbles). We listened to Karlin and didn't not hand feed him. It was hard with those begging eyes! We will cook chicken and rice tomorrow to see how it will go. He has two more days of antibiotics. He looks and acts fine (other than the loose stool and newly developed eating habit).

His stools are not really that loose now. It has "form", for lack of better words, but when I picked it up with a plastic bag, it felt very soft and moist :eek:.

He is our first dog so there is a great deal for us to learn. Lucky I found this great forum.:thmbsup:

Scouty girl
24th August 2008, 01:28 AM
Hi, I hope Mickey feels better soon. There must be something going around. My Newf, Breeze, had diarrhea last week and this week both my Mom and Aunt's dogs both have it. All required trips to the vet with boiled ground chuck and rice. Breeze is better, but the other two dogs are still working their way thru. Poor dears.

Cathy Moon
24th August 2008, 02:10 AM
That's good his stools are getting formed.:flwr:

Geordie caught it too, and Colin took him to the vet on Friday. It was an overgrowth of clostridium, which seems to happen every August.:confused: He's taking Flagyl now, but also required an injection. So I'm boiling rice and beef again.

India had it a little bit, but we fed her raw nature's variety for a few days and it cleared up on its own.

bimmerguy288
24th August 2008, 03:10 AM
Ruby gets upset stomach very often, I do boiled rice and chicken and it clears up fast! I fed ruby on royal canin dried food and it really upset her stomach, I think each dog is different,I Hope Mickey is better.

The Royal Canin dried kibbles look a lot greasier than the Bil Jac kibbles which has been his regular diet for several months. But the vet said it's made specially for upset tummies.

I know he is OK not eating a meal or two but my heart hurts knowing he must be hungry. I am wondering what he is thinking now. Those melting eyes...:(

Cathy Moon
24th August 2008, 03:35 AM
If one of mine stopped eating entirely for two meals, I would definitely want to talk to my vet.

Alison_Leighfield
24th August 2008, 06:59 AM
Was he OK at the dog sitters? have any other dogs staying there had this since being there? perhaps another dog brought something in or he has eaten something there that has started the upset....just a thought.

Alison.

bimmerguy288
24th August 2008, 12:24 PM
Was he OK at the dog sitters? have any other dogs staying there had this since being there? perhaps another dog brought something in or he has eaten something there that has started the upset....just a thought.

Alison.

I didn't really ask our dog sitter. She has six Cavaliers herself and occasionally dog sits one or two other Cavaliers. She has a fenced backyard where the dogs play and relieve themsleves. Mickey had a great time playing with them but he might have picked up something there. It could happen anywhere. I forgot if Mickey's stools were loose or not the following day or two after he came home.

Anyway, I hope he will get over this soon, I don't want him to take so much antibiotics.

Thanks.

Brian M
24th August 2008, 02:31 PM
Hi

I posted the other day about Daisy having diarrhea and Rosies been affected also and even Poppys stools have gone sloppy.The vet prescribed for Daisy only SALAZOPYRIN 1/2 tablet twice daily ,have also been giving all of them 5 ml of Suspension kaogel and a tablet of Probiozyme and feeding Daisy egg white and white turkey meat with Poppy and Rosie their normal feed ,mainly Burns dry.They are all acting normally with no sign of any illness apart from sloppy poops ,shall i continue till they firm up ,Daisy has 1 1/2 days supply of tablets left.

Daisy's Mom
24th August 2008, 02:35 PM
Cathy -- Your post that your dog seems to go through something like this every August intrigued me because Daisy showed some signs this morning that she may be entering a period of upset tummy, too. (She wouldn't even sniff her breakfast, and she kept wanting to go outside and eat grass.) This was exactly what she did last July and we had multiple vet visits, ultrasound, barium series, etc. trying to find what was going on. It was so bad that she didn't eat for so long that the vet said we might have to tube feed her. We never figured out what was wrong and he eventually said it was gastritis or gastroenteritis for lack of a more specific diagnosis. I eventually got her eating again using the Satin balls, and then over several weeks I got her back on dog food.

Now, I'm wondering if Daisy may have what Geordie had, given the timing and symptoms. How did your vet test for clostridium? Was it a blood test? Would adding probiotics help?

Thanks!

Cathy Moon
24th August 2008, 04:13 PM
Cathy -- Your post that your dog seems to go through something like this every August intrigued me because Daisy showed some signs this morning that she may be entering a period of upset tummy, too. (She wouldn't even sniff her breakfast, and she kept wanting to go outside and eat grass.) This was exactly what she did last July and we had multiple vet visits, ultrasound, barium series, etc. trying to find what was going on. It was so bad that she didn't eat for so long that the vet said we might have to tube feed her. We never figured out what was wrong and he eventually said it was gastritis or gastroenteritis for lack of a more specific diagnosis. I eventually got her eating again using the Satin balls, and then over several weeks I got her back on dog food.

Now, I'm wondering if Daisy may have what Geordie had, given the timing and symptoms. How did your vet test for clostridium? Was it a blood test? Would adding probiotics help?

Thanks!
From what I understand about clostridium, it is usually present in the bowel in small amounts, but something (I don't know what) can trigger overgrowth. Once there is an overgrowth to a certain degree, it doesn't seem that anything helps except veterinary intervention. I've tried probiotics to no avail. I think it is found in a 'gram stain' test on the dog's stool sample. If you don't request a gram stain test, they may only look for worms according to what our vets' receptionist told me.

When my dogs first caught clostridium years ago, the vet said it was from eating wild animal poo in the backyard (birds, squirrels, rabbits are what we have).

At Geordie's recent appointment, the vet told Colin that Geordie probably picked it up eating rabbit poo, which we've caught them doing lately.

I caught India's early, and Nature's Variety frozen raw diet seemed to help her get back to normal before she reached the point of needing a vet.

During August when the weather is very hot, I usually get sickly and so do the dogs. I thought it also might be something to do with our tap water, as it smells more 'chemically' than usual every August. Just a theory though, and we've had some cool weather this August so I might be off base.

Oh, I almost forgot to add - overgrowth of Clostridium can become VERY serious if it is not treated. Some types of clostridium can actually start putting out toxins in the dog's intestines. When our pups had clostridium the first tme, they had to take Tylan powder for an entire month to overcome the disease.

bimmerguy288
28th August 2008, 07:41 PM
After weeks of antibiotics, special food from the vet's office, and a few days of chicken rice, I am happy to report that Mickey has had normal stools in the last two days.

He loves the chicken rice. Whenever he senses that he is getting it, he jumps in the crate and waits. Now we need to gradually phase out the chicken rice and put him back on his kibble diet. That can be hard. He will think: why don't you human eat my kibbles and let me eat your chicken?

Thanks everyone!