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View Full Version : UK Kennel Club issues statement 9/9/08



frecklesmom
9th September 2008, 11:22 PM
This is a very long statement under title Kennel Club Vows to get Tough
and there is some positive response to the Pedigree Dogs Exposed program.
You'll find the statement here at Dog World

http://www.dogworld.co.uk/News/37-KC

Jan Bell
10th September 2008, 09:29 AM
I think this looks like good news. No one is arguing that the Kennel Club has done good work into research, but now it looks like they are going to act on it.

I would love to see another programme in a few years which can genuinely pat the Kennel Club on the back for the measure they have taken and the improvements that have been made since the airing of Pedigree Dogs Exposed.

Cathy Moon
10th September 2008, 01:02 PM
“Some breed organisations, especially any which may have been unwilling to co-operate with KC demands benefiting the health of the breed, can expect us to be tougher on them and to take unilateral action to enforce its demands if necessary.
“There are already plans under way for members of the Breed Health and Welfare Strategy Group, to deal with issues regarding the following breeds over the next few weeks and months: German Shepherd Dogs, Basset Hounds, Bloodhounds, Neapolitan Mastiffs, Dogues De Bordeaux and a joint meeting of representatives of a number of brachicephalic breeds such as the Pug and the French Bulldog.
“A special meeting will be held to deal with issues regarding the Pekingese breed Standard. It will also look at the possibility of other measures, in the event of breeders or judges refusing to accede to KC requests.
I wish Cavalier King Charles Spaniels were listed here. The club can pay for all kinds of research, but if breeders treat the MVD guidelines as optional and ignore SM how will anyone benefit? My dogs are from some of the top UK show lines, and Geordie has advancing MVD and SM which started at well under 5 years of age.

Karlin
11th September 2008, 12:38 AM
Well -- let's look at what they are actually doing in the meantime.


the accredited breeder scheme they keep going on about basically only requires you to pay a bit more to be listed. That is it. There isn't any health requirements element of being on their accredited list that anyone goes and verifies (ie you don't need to be cardiologist testing or scanning). As a member noted here already, one breeder who kept her dogs in horrendous conditions -- little more than a small puppy farm -- was on the accredited breeders list and it was very hard to get them to finally remove her! I am glad they state they will 'review' the programme but as they already have insisted they currently have no ability to even link puppy registration to any form of health testing what can they make an accredited breeder do?

the KC is insisting on its website that responds specifically to the programme that the incidence of SM in cavaliers is 2%, based on their breed survey which they themselves notes must be inaccurate and only represents the information they received back (interestingly, they have failed to highlight that the same survey had 37% of respondents noting their pedigree dog had at least one health condition). I don't even think the more skeptical breeders possibly believe the level is anywhere near this low. It is extraordinary that given the heart problems and now SM in the breed that it is not on their list of breeds being reviewed! Quite frankly I'd much rather have a dog bred to wobble around on its legs than die at age 7 from early onset heart disease, or trying to live with he pain of syringomyelia. I am sorry, but bassetts having arthritis also does not seem more worrisome to me than having two of my four dogs living with brains that are being shoved into their spinal cord because their skulls are too small!

Given that this is the world's original kennel club and they have one hopes, been actually looking at what their breeders breed for over 100 years, and given that they have staged Crufts, the world's most famous dog show, and had vets on their advisory panels, it is amazing that only following this single on-hour long TV programme has it come to their attention that shepherds can barely stand, short legged breeds have joint problems, and most bulldogs have to have Caesareans. I guess they still haven't noticed the heart problems in cavaliers though the club's own cardiologist noted there had been no improvement in this serious disease in a decade, on the same programme. If they want some sense of SM incidence, why don't they go talk to Geoff Skerritt, who has now MRId over 1000 of them?Maybe he could only give the percentage affected of breeder's dogs alone so the sample isn't 'tainted' by people bringing in the dogs they think have SM and which are there for diagnostic purposes.

I'd like to se them actually act on lots of the things they mention but given that they are ignoring all the independent research done on cavaliers for SM incidence and instead citing a breed health survey they themselves fill with disclaimers regarding accuracy, I don't hold out a lot of hope.

sins
11th September 2008, 01:00 AM
If they want some sense of SM incidence, why don't they go talk to Geoff Skerritt, who has now MRId over 1000 of them?

Because of the influence of individuals and groups who dismiss the findings of Skerritt and Rusbridge.
Without naming names we have the eminent breeder who was seen briefly on the BBC documentary who "personally does not subscribe to scanning but when DNA evidence becomes available would be more than happy to go down that avenue".
The breeder of the malvern Dog who says that "MRI is not he answer to everything and I don't think SM is the epidemic they are trying to make out it is."
and finally the Gifted rheumatologist who claims that "the evidence does not support the propaganda and I refute a lot of what has been projected in the Uk both academically and in the media"(without performing any scans himself or undertaking and epidemiological or research studies)

In spite of this though what is encouraging is the list of scanned dogs that continues to grow andw ell done to margaret carter for her efforts.

Jan Bell
11th September 2008, 09:42 AM
OK, I am more discouraged now. I naively thought that the Kennel Club statement was a postive thing.

Cathy Moon
11th September 2008, 11:06 AM
It might be a good thing for:

German Shepherd Dogs, Basset Hounds, Bloodhounds, Neapolitan Mastiffs, Dogues De Bordeaux and a joint meeting of representatives of a number of brachicephalic breeds such as the Pug and the French Bulldog.

Karlin
11th September 2008, 11:46 AM
I think it is a positive move forward and better than what they were doing til now -- denying there were any significant problems. I think they have engaged a media company to advise them as their responses have suddenly shifted -- not doubt as they realised the mass of public opinion was against them and the way they tried initially to dismiss all the evidence in the show.

The proof as they say is in the pudding -- I'd like to see some concrete action taken on some of these issues. Additionally the CKCS breed club does not even state a support of or encouragement to follow the MVD protocol in its own ethics guidelines -- a very basic level of health support! -- as now the only age related guideline is recommending bitches not be bred before 16 months. That is more than a YEAR under the MVD protocol age :yikes , and there are no guidelines at all for males! The US clubs are far better in at least supporting the MVD protocol directly in their ethics guidelines. You'd think the MVD protocol had never existed, from reading the UK Club guidelines. :bang:

Jan Bell
11th September 2008, 01:33 PM
Cathy, Karlin,

If you don't mind, I am going crib some of your above two posts to write another letter to the CKCS club.

Until now my involvement in the club has only been receiving the Year Book and newsletters. To be honest, I only joined as the breeder of Toby said it was nice to keep up to date with Cavalier news and so proposed me, with a friend as a second. I am only a Cavalier owner, so never really bothered much with all the regulations of the club.

Since the Pedigree Dogs Exposed programme I have realised how little I know, and how little effort I have made to understand the breed problems so I am trying to catch up and do what I can - mainly writing letters. Wish I could do more, but it's better than nothing.

Cathy Moon
11th September 2008, 01:36 PM
Jan,
I will PM you my post. I had posted it on the wrong thread, and I saved it to a document for posting later on the BBC discussion thread.

Edited to add: Jan, I have PM'd it to you. I have to go to work now, but feel free to PM me if you didn't receive it, etc. I will respond this evening.

Jan Bell
11th September 2008, 02:09 PM
Thanks Cathy, I have got it.

Margaret C
11th September 2008, 06:06 PM
Cathy, Karlin,

If you don't mind, I am going crib some of your above two posts to write another letter to the CKCS club.

Until now my involvement in the club has only been receiving the Year Book and newsletters. To be honest, I only joined as the breeder of Toby said it was nice to keep up to date with Cavalier news and so proposed me, with a friend as a second. I am only a Cavalier owner, so never really bothered much with all the regulations of the club.

Since the Pedigree Dogs Exposed programme I have realised how little I know, and how little effort I have made to understand the breed problems so I am trying to catch up and do what I can - mainly writing letters. Wish I could do more, but it's better than nothing.

Jan,

Please do write, and there is something else everyone that is a member of the Cavalier Club can do, if this meeting goes ahead.

Please come to the meeting if at all possible and make your opinion count.
Talk to anybody else that you know who is a Cavalier Club member.

Only members who are actually there will be able to take part in the secret ballot, and I hear that the organisers of the petition are arranging coaches to bring in their friends.

There is going to be a lot of media interest in what is happening. It would be good if the many decent people in the Club managed to make their voice heard, both by those that run the Club, and by those that are looking on.

Just consider what happens if these people win. They will be able to continue to ignore all recommendations, guidelines, and protocols on health. They will continue to just breed for beauty while selling most of their puppies as family pets.

After what has happened to me health testing in Cavaliers will not stand a chance. Nobody, but nobody, will dare try to bring up the subject again.

The people who organised the petition will need two thirds of the votes to get rid of me, the person who administered the Cavalier Cub Lub Dub Fund ( for MVD ) & then, for the last five years, has worked to get SM recognised as a serious threat.

If enough people will give up their day & make the journey we could send a different, more caring, message about cavalier breeders, club members and owners to the watching world.

Margaret C

sins
11th September 2008, 06:17 PM
Margaret,
If I'm correct you are being charged with breaching confidentiality by revealing the contents of Ms Costello's dog's scan?
Ms Costello herself has stated on Dogworld

Mrs Carter spoke about Beverley Costello’s champion dog who won BIS at a breed club championship show. She said she had seen the dog’s scan which showed it had SM. This was denied by Ms Costello, who told DW that the scan had never left her house.
But on Monday Ms Costello once again denied that Mrs Carter had seen the scan."The only person I showed it to was a rheumatologist"


This begs the question if Ms Costello says you never saw the scan then how can a charge of breach confidentiality be upheld?????
Sins