View Full Version : A good breeder - impossible to find?
16th September 2008, 11:24 AM
Hi all, I'm new here. I have an 8 year old cav who is slowly dying of heart disease. I would love to get more cav puppies in the future as I just love the breed. However, I just cannot find a responsible breeder? All the top ones say things like 'she has great markings'; I couldn't care less about that, I want to know that the parents are over 3, both with clear hearts and are MRI scanned for SM, and preferably see the grandparents' heart certs too. Is this humanely possible? Is there any kind of list out there of breeders who can supply this info? I don't care if I have to travel a long distance or pay more to get a healthy dog. Often on the phone breeders will say they have both parent dogs to view and heart certs etc but on arrival they only let you see the Mother or something. Unless I can get the info I need I will not buy another cavalier, which is such a shame. My dog has cost me thousands so far with her heart and eye problems ... I'd be interested to know if there any cav owners out there whose dogs have died of 'old age' with NO hereditary problems? And if so, could you email me details of where you got them from please!! :flwr:
16th September 2008, 01:50 PM
So sorry about your Cavalier and i so agree with you about our Cavaliers and i am sure some of our very experienced members will guide you in the right direction in your search for a new family member .
Brian, Poppy,Daisy and Rosie:thmbsup:
16th September 2008, 01:51 PM
Where do you live?
16th September 2008, 02:19 PM
sounds like your talking to the wrong breeders there are some good breeders around where do you live ?
you say "all the top ones" talk about their markings rather than health ? did they say they were the top ones ?
i'm sorry to hear about your older cavalier but don't give up there are still many people working hard to improve health .
16th September 2008, 02:34 PM
Is there any kind of list out there of breeders who can supply this info?
Not at this time but something is in the works. :)
Let us know where you are based. Based on that, I will PM you. I have a few contacts for breeders that have heart and SM-aware breeding programs and both cardiac and MRI test. Most of these folks have waiting lists for puppies however so it is well worth getting in and talking to them to find someone who suits.
16th September 2008, 03:20 PM
I am so glad to read those words regarding a breeders list "Not at this time but there is something in the works" especially as i am so new to belonging to a Cavalier and therefore not possessing the knowledge of where to go to find the right one .As of now and with thanks to all the experts i am fully armed with the right questions to ask when i finally commit to a fourth but i am so uneducated about who to ask unless i trawl all the Cav club sites or just Google it but i have always thought that it is so better to go on peoples expert recommendations rather than uneducated guesswork and then possibly risk lining the pockets of unscrupulous/unethical breeders. Three times over the summer whilst on walks with the girls people have asked me "Where did you get them from and what breeder" and each time rather than name the girls breeders directly i have tried to guide them to this forum and the information it contains . Hence the reason while i think some sort of good recommended list from the experts is far better than doing a blind search and possibly ending up with heartbreak further on .
16th September 2008, 04:06 PM
Jennifer I totally understand what you are saying it is so difficult. I rang a breeder and she said to me 'why don't your breed your girl now and then it'll be half the price too'!!! I was disgusted and told her that Sally is spayed and doesn't have health certificates and I am definitely not a breeder! I hung up in disgust! I also would like this list of health focused breeders for the future. Good luck in you search
16th September 2008, 05:46 PM
Thanks so much for all your replies. I am based in the new forest near Bournemouth, but would travel anywhere really for a healthy pup! Obviously the nearer the better though. That list in the works sounds amazing! Thanks for any further advice. I would be more than happy to join a waiting list.
19th September 2008, 02:15 PM
How are you getting on in your search ,pls keep us posted.
and the Girls
19th September 2008, 06:05 PM
I just wanted to say good luck with your search - I'm also finding it difficult to find a breeder online (afterall, they are hardly going to post negative comments on their own websites!) so I'm now trying through word of mouth.
If anyone knows of a reputable breeder (or preferably breederS so I can visit a few) in North Yorkshire, please PM me :D
22nd September 2008, 04:56 PM
I have had 1 PM (thanks!) regarding a breeder near me, but they haven't contacted me back yet. I hope to hear something from them. Their website doesn't give any info on their breeding but the person who PM'd me advised that they did MRI scans and heart tests etc. Apart from that, I have heard nothing. I would like the name of just 1 responsible breeder in the whole of the England or Wales who can give me all the things stated in this thread:
If you are looking for a cavalier puppy! (http://board.cavaliertalk.com/showthread.php?t=26676)
People say there are good breeders out there, but where? I'd like just 1 name so I can join a waiting list, as I am guessing the waiting lists are long ones!!
22nd September 2008, 07:02 PM
I agree, a list like that would be tremendous. I am in a similar situation Jen - my old bloke is 8 -9 and has MVD ... but for now he is very well on meds.
I can relate to exactly how you feel. I am a cavalier owner through and through now, but i don't want to line the pockets of unscrupulous breeders through my ignorance.
If this list gets compiled, i would very much like a copy :xfngr:
24th September 2008, 07:23 PM
At the CKCS Club, UK website there is a list of members (on left side of page after you click on Members pages) and there are a few members showing MRI scanning on their website front pages :) Such as this one:
holds current clear health certificates for Heart, Eyes,
and SM - MRI Grade A. This gives a place to start looking for a healthy breeding :xfngr:
28th September 2008, 11:15 AM
Thanks very much for your advice about the members pages. I take it the one you quoted was in America? I have contacted a lot of the UK ones; out of the ones that did reply, they all said they couldn't afford MRI scans or didn't need them as there was no history of it in their dogs? I have noticed that the American breeders are very good, a lot of them MRI scanning regularly and also taking steps to ensure the puppies they sell are not used for breeding.
28th September 2008, 07:33 PM
Sorry, no, that was at CKCS Club UK. There aren't many listed but possible they can help you along the path.
1st October 2008, 02:45 PM
Any luck yet in your search for a puppy.?
4th October 2008, 04:26 PM
Still haven't found one that ticks all the boxes ... the best is one who says she has the grandparents, and the grandmother is still heart clear at an old age which is brilliant, and the parents are clear of course. But they don't have any history of SM so aren't MRi scanning as too expensive.
Is this reliable by the way ... if the breeders have no history of SM in their puppies, and no symptoms in the breeding dogs, is a scan necessary still? (Can SM show up randomly or is it always inherited from the parents?).
Also, alot of the breeders who have SM tested and heart tested, haven't eye tested. Not sure how important that is but I know cavs do suffer with eye problems. Mine has 'dry eye syndrome' caused by a problem with the immune system, which has been costing me a fortune, (until I discovered www.buyoptimmune.co.uk (http://www.buyoptimmune.co.uk), over half the price of the vets!).
4th October 2008, 05:17 PM
[QUOTE=JenniferP;289898]Still haven't found one that ticks all the boxes ... the best is one who says she has the grandparents, and the grandmother is still heart clear at an old age which is brilliant, and the parents are clear of course. But they don't have any history of SM so aren't MRi scanning as too expensive.
The way I think of it mri scanning is £200 ? thats just £50 extra per pup on a litter of 4 & the scan is paid for
4th October 2008, 05:18 PM
Here is a link that should help answer some of your questions:
Just to add, we all know MRI scanning is expensive for everyone, including puppy owners. The UK breeders actually get the lowest price for scanning.
SM can be present in an asymptomatic cavalier who later may become symptomatic. It is important that cavaliers being used for breeding are scanned and graded, and the SM protocol is followed. There is no excuse for a breeder to say it's too expensive.
4th October 2008, 07:02 PM
Not wishing to be gloomy, I think you will for a while find it difficult to find a breeder that can "tick all the boxes". Those that can will have waiting lists as long as your arm. More are trying to acheive good results but it is not easy and will take time ,though I am confident things will improve.
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