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Karlin
19th September 2008, 11:48 AM
I've just come across this site. I would imagine there is a similar one for every state of the union.

Just a WARNING.... that health focused, reputable club affiliated breeders do not generally have a clearing house website with an 800 number nor do they emphasise the SMALLNESS of puppies, take pictures of them next to objects to emphasise their smallness, etc ) setting aside that many of these pictured puppies are very young and will appear very small anyway at that age. This selling technique for cavaliers from breeders with a careful focus on health is a new one to me. :confused:

Every reputable breeder I know would not list puppies anonymously with no information on the breeder, kennel, health programme etc.

This is how they describe themselves:


About Us

We are a network of private Cavalier breeders throughout the US devoted to raising the best purebred Cavalier King Charles Spaniel puppies possible. CaliforniaCavalierPuppies.com was created so we could share our healthy, home-raised Cavalier King Charles Spaniel puppies with families across California and the US via one convenient web site...
[snip]
Not just anyone can post on CaliforniaCavalierPuppies.com; we hand-select only registered, experienced Cavalier breeders who meet our strict breeding standards to join us in providing the healthiest, happiest Cavalier King Charles Spaniel puppies possible to California homes.
Interestingly they do not clarify what breeders need to be doing to qualify -- do they have to submit cardiologist certs? OFA register test scores? MRI? icon_nwunsure

Please remember when buying a puppy that you personally need to get all the information you can by actually seeing certs. Do not trust what someone says -- ask for proof. Check that proof with the regional club and your vet.

Please read though how to find a good breeder in the Library sction and be sure to read this (http://board.cavaliertalk.com/showthread.php?p=284655#post284655).

There is not a single piece of health info on this site. But they do describe the breed like this:


More Cavalier Info

The Toy dog breed called the Cavalier King Charles Spaniel is known for its exceptional vision and impressive sense of smell. The Cavalier King Charles Spaniel is known for its lively personality and even temperament. The Cavalier breed is energetic and very loving and affectionate. Cavaliers are considered to be quite fearless. These small little dogs love to please everyone. The Cavalier King Charles Spaniel is known as an intelligent breed. The Cavalier has been known to be able to understand what you want from them and are easy to train.
Cavalier King Charles Spaniel puppies respond best to gentle and positive obedience training. These adorable little pups are very well behaved by nature and tend to get along well with all dog breeds and other house pets. The Cavalier King Charles Spaniel breed comes in a variety of colors. There are Blenheim Cavaliers which are a red and white coloring, Prince Charles Cavaliers which have a tricolor coloring to the coat, King Charles Cavaliers which have a black and tan coloring, and Ruby Cavaliers which have a rich mahogany red color.
Cavaliers have big beautiful dark colored eyes that stand out and have been known to touch your heart! The breed has adorable little button noses as well! Cavalier puppies act like little babies and love to be with the family and loved ones. They make wonderful house pets. They are smart and love to have the companionship of people and children. Cavalier King Charles Spaniel puppies need lots of extra love and kisses. These cute and cuddly little babies are known best for their long hair with beautiful colorings as well as for their beautiful markings.
The Cavalier breed is known for playing outdoors and playing around on the grass. Cavaliers like to go for walks and enjoy playing games such as fetch with a ball. The Ruby Red Cavaliers are stunning with their bright color. The Blenheim Cavalier is seen often and is known as the most popular type of Cavalier. The Cavalier dog breed is one that is most recognized for its loving and level temperament as well as its cute little form.
Cavalier King Charles Spaniel breeders are breeding now a day to better the bred. Today, these Cavalier breeders are known to breed for a good even, calm, temperament and a happy affectionate disposition. Some Cavalier breeders show their Cavalier puppies in Championship events and may win awards for best of the Toy group. Cavalier King Charles Spaniels that come from Champion bloodlines or pedigree will fit the required characteristics and features of the breed standard. The Cavalier is well known for its elegant ways, and for carrying a royal appearance. The Cavalier dog is a wonderful option for a pet. Cavalier King Charles as a dog breed is adorable, loving and very attentive. Cavalier King Charles Spaniel puppies love to be by your side. They are known as a true lap baby.



* All of the puppies listed on this website are from our nationwide network of breeders and are not necessarily located in California.
Note that final sentence. Also note they are mixing up King Charles spaniels (English toys) with CKCS. :sl*p: This must truly be a very special, elite group of cavalier breeders! And I am so glad they mention the real selling point of the breed -- the cute little button noses. :rolleyes:

And goodness -- the exact same website for other breeds...: http://www.californiapoodlepuppies.com/ca-puppies-for-sale/ . And the EXACT same list of testimonials!

Caveat emptor.

*Pauline*
19th September 2008, 12:46 PM
I'm no literary genius but "More Cavalier Info" sounds like it was written by a 5 year old.

Karlin
19th September 2008, 12:48 PM
I can't imagine where they got exceptional vision and sense of smell as the first points about the breed... :lol: Exceptional vision? :rolleyes:

brotymo
19th September 2008, 12:51 PM
swell....

but ignorance of the health problems of the breed and of puppy mills creates the market, and so the site will probably flourish unless it becomes illegal.

brotymo
19th September 2008, 12:59 PM
I had to take Bandit to the emergency vet late Monday night (scary incident with a rawhide/choking, then having to pass it...that I can't really talk about it right now and didn't post here because it very close to cost us Bandit, and I didn't want to relive it. Thankfully all is well now.)

Anyway, the middle aged (probably 50's) vet who attended to Bandit mentioned how nice the breed is, but the health problems they suffer. I told him how I was aware, and that we'd bought Bandit from a breeder who is very health focused and cardiologist tests, etc. First thing he said was he didn't know about the cardiologist testing! After I mentioned the problem backyard breeders and puppy mills were to the health of the breed he went on to say there wasn't anything wrong with backyard breeders. He even defined them as average people who have a couple of dogs and just want to breed them. He credited them for keeping breeds of dogs going!

I didn't even argue at that point, but was glad we were done with OUR treatment or I would have gotten the feeling Bandit might need a different vet. this all is at a teaching hospital! He was one of the head teaching vets!

Brian M
19th September 2008, 01:34 PM
Hi

That must have been so scary so glad Bandit is better ,we have within a few miles a vet college from the University of Liverpool called Leahurst and at my vets there are often students from there on release so i always ask which vet is on and naturally pick the experienced senior ones i know .I hope and do not mean to be disrespectful and understand we all have to learn but sorry i do not want them practicing on my girls and it must be so disheartening when your Cav is hurt or injured that you suddenly realise your knowledge is probably greater than your vets so i suppose with my practice having three senior partners i am a wee bit lucky in that respect.

Karlin
19th September 2008, 01:36 PM
Vets can be pretty clueless about dog breeding. A lot sadly still think a dog should have a single litter before being spayed even if the pups are pts!!

redhare
19th September 2008, 02:02 PM
Just looked at the site; in the "links" section they have sites for 28 different breeds (including mixes)! All have exact same testimonials, down to the dogs' names. I like how the first one says the dog arrived safe to California, when this is supposed to be a California-based company? ***OOPS! missed the nationwide network sentence***

And reading the "lifetime guarantee" states the owners have to feed premium food and some specific vitamin--and keep all of the receipts--for the life of the dog, or the guarantee is void!

So disheartening, it looks like any other puppies-R-us site.

CavyMom
19th September 2008, 03:03 PM
These types of sites always make me so sad :( I couldn't resist pulling it up - Between them selling puppies on known puppy mill registries, like the ACA, the possing of puppies on cute backgrounds to make them look more appealing (When I advertise puppies - I show them how they are!) and the obvious lack of knowledge, it just makes me sad :( The best attack is educating the public - The comment that makes me the sadest when I talk to people about puppies is when they say things like "oh, we didn't care about papers, we just wanted a pet" Well, that's all fine and dandy - But it's not REALLY about the registration papers, good breeders don't have unregistered litters or use puppy mill registries, and I've yet to hear of a breeder who doesn't register or uses registries other then AKC and/or UKC in the US, or the equivilant in other countries, who actually does ANY health testing at all!!!

hbmama
19th September 2008, 06:46 PM
Thanks Karlin for putting this information up. Cavaliers are getting more popular all the time here in California, and though they are still relatively a minority around here, I am noticing more and more of them advertised in the classified sections of the newspapers.:mad:

I ALWAYS go over the health issues in the breed with everyone who stops us when we are in public. There are also a few "high end" pet boutiques around here who have had Cav puppies in the past, and I let shoppers know of the pitfalls of impulse buying any purebred dog from questionable sources, not to mention the heartbreak suffered by the little victims of the puppy mill industry.:(

Unfortunately, with the internet boom, one can easily do their shopping from their home office. A site that states that their breeders are hand picked to be on their site might lure someone who is not knowledgeable into purchasing a brokered dog, or from an ignorant back yard breeder. OF COURSE a reputable breeder wouldn't need a "clearing house" to get rid of their puppies. SHEESH.:bang: The typical wait for a puppy from a breeder in California who follows the health breeding protocol can be up to a year or longer, assuming YOU pass their muster. Even then it is no guarantee that all will be well, but at least you have increased the odds for having a relatively healthy puppy.

I myself was very ignorant in the past regarding how to go about getting a dog. Our mixed breeds have always been pound puppy rescues, but both of our labradors were from BYB's/newspaper ads. Even though we loved them dearly of course, we went through a myriad of health issues with them, including behavioral problems, skin allergies, back problems, cataracts and cancer. The best prevention is education, sometimes over, and over, and over again.

Lisa_T
19th September 2008, 08:20 PM
At the risk of sounding like a snob, I would find it hard to take this seriously because ... although they have gone to the trouble writing an extended mini-essay on the breed, it is not particularly well written. It's repetitive. It's cutesy. There's very little in the way of cold, hard fact, and, as Karlin points out, it's not even accurate.

...and their choice of emphasis is truly, truly strange. I agree with Pauline. It does sound a bit kiddyish.

Cathy T
19th September 2008, 09:10 PM
Absolutely disgusting!!! I just hate seeing this sites. And there are more and more of them every day.

Pat
20th September 2008, 12:47 AM
I thought the same thing about the writing skills - not only is the writer ignorant about dogs in general and Cavaliers in particular, but he/she is a lousy writer! I presume they are targeting the affluent consumers in CA - (do ya hear me, Cathy!!)

Bandit's mom - you are obviously near UGA in Athens I am in Marietta. I've been a client of Gil Jacobs, bd. cert. cardiologist for about 20 yrs., and now I see Corrie Barker, bd. cert. internist who bought his practice recently (he is still there, just working less hours). At any rate, I can't say enough good things about both of them - they are wonderful and very skilled. The personal attention they give is way above and beyond the norm, or I wouldn't make the three hour round trip drive there when there is another bd. cert. cardiologist and several internists located 15 minutes from me in Atlanta. I really credit Gil and Corrie in a big way in helping me have three Cavaliers reach 14, one reach 15 and two reach 16. The youngest Cavalier I've lost was 13, and that was way too young to my way of thinking.

Chelle & Rex
20th September 2008, 01:02 AM
Its like a kids prog - lets all pretend everything is ok...........................OMg

Nancy
20th September 2008, 01:57 AM
I came across the same site for Michigan breeders. If you read closely, the breeders aren't in the states they mention , it's a marketing trick and really appalling. I hope people don't fall for it.

Cathy T
21st September 2008, 04:49 PM
I presume they are targeting the affluent consumers in CA - (do ya hear me, Cathy!!)



:rolleyes: ......Wish I were one of the affluent consumers in CA!!!:D

The site just makes me sick. Just ran across a local "breeder" (and, believe me, I use that term lightly!!) with a link on her website to another such site. One of her buyers called me, after the fact of course. She said she had done her homework and researched. I pointed out two key facts she missed.....no affiliation with any club and a link to a crap site like that one! Oh well, what's done is done. But she completely understood and agreed with what I said. Hopefully she won't go back there (was considering it, but won't now) and will educate others who ask her about where she got her Cavalier.

coconut
21st September 2008, 05:00 PM
this makes me sick!!!

diddy
21st September 2008, 08:58 PM
[quote=brotymo;287422]I had to take Bandit to the emergency vet late Monday night (scary incident with a rawhide/choking, then having to pass it...that I can't really talk about it right now and didn't post here because it very close to cost us Bandit, and I didn't want to relive it. Thankfully all is well now.)

diddy
21st September 2008, 09:02 PM
Glad Bandit is ok Now. Next time you have a dog in trouble just post a quick HELP ... here. I probably sound a complete nutter, but the power of the mind is a very powerful tool and many people here will 'will him through' alongside you.

brotymo
22nd September 2008, 03:51 AM
Glad Bandit is ok Now. Next time you have a dog in trouble just post a quick HELP ... here. I probably sound a complete nutter, but the power of the mind is a very powerful tool and many people here will 'will him through' alongside you.
thanks Diddy. Everyone here is awesome. Over the couple of days this summer while Pixie was in the hospital, a victim of delayed drowning and ultimately did not survive, (you can look at my posts if you were not here then if you wanted to see her story :cry*ing:) it was the support and compassion of all the board members that helped lift me up to get through that awful time. The scary situation with Bandit on Monday just felt too familiar. Once it was over, I wanted to forget it.

That said, I am glad I was able to come here for support and understanding.

ppotterfield
22nd September 2008, 05:55 PM
I sent them a post on Friday requesting the criteria by which they selected their breeders. They had it set up so you could not copy over your post to them. Have not heard back. I am going to try again if I hear nothing in the next day or two and if still nothing I may file a consumer complaint that they are advertising having selective criteria to participate but will not disclose to consumers what the criteria are. Probably will do no good but you never can tell.

Karlin
22nd September 2008, 06:42 PM
Yes actually under some state laws there are probably ways of going after them at least for using a url with a state's name in it...