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Ciren
30th September 2008, 09:01 AM
sorry i not been around for a while, i not been well.

i have had a letter from my MP. she says she has written to DEFRA about my concerns and will let me know what happens.

Jan Bell
30th September 2008, 09:53 AM
Hello Amy,

You are doing better than me with your MP, as I haven't heard anything yet from Peter Ainsworth. I did get a reply from Defra though (posted on another thread, and also on Beverley Cuddy's Cold Wet Nose Blog). They seemed to say that they accept there is a problem but didn't currently intend to do much about it, so pressure from MP's is going to be necessary.

This week I also wrote to Lord Roy Hattersley, a result of reading the following Guardian article, 'The Essence of Dogness' :

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2007/mar/12/comment.comment

..and just for the hell of it to Martin Clunes, to see if he would sign the petition. After all, Cavalier's were specifically mentioned in his dog programme too, in relation to hereditary illnesses, although those who somehow don't believe it is a problem have conveniently ignored that, and say that Pedigree Dogs Exposed was all an exaggeration.

I have had some other replies, but notably nothing from Pedigree Dog Foods or James Wellbeloved. I wonder if they are sitting on the fence at the moment, waiting for the other shoe to drop. With big companies it all comes down to profit, and it must be a bit difficult with two opposing sides who could both affect dog food markets if they chose to.

I still find it incomprehensible that so many breeders can ignore the findings of legitimate research into SM. As far as I can see, their only "champion" is Dr Ingpen. The CKCS club has put a lot of effort and money into reseach, but it's own members don't want to follow the recommendations resulting from this, so seem to either ignor it or try to discredit the research.

My husband tells me that I have to accept that some people will believe whatever they want to, regardless of research and evidence. He says that in science there is rarely conclusive "proof", just a combination of research and likelyhoods that point to a certain direction. There will always be people who use this lack of total proof as a loophole to go the way that causes them the least inconvenice. Look at the climate change debate for instance. Also that change always comes painfully and slowly. I know he is right, but it doesn't make it any the less upsetting.

One comment on another board said that they would rather trust Dr Ingpen than Margaret C re: the Malvern dog's scan, but this makes no sense to me at all. What about giving it to an independent expert? This point has come up again and again, but it is conveniently ignored.

I thought about posting this comment but I find that some of the contributers on this board are really quite unnecessarily unpleasant and don't actually answer the questions put to them anyway. Though actually, a lot of the editorial is far more reasonable, saying that even if they didn't agree with the way Pedigree Dogs Exposed was edited, there were some valid points which the Kennel Club should look at.

There was also a couple of very unpleasant comments made about this board. This is a pet owner's forum, but it's like we are somehow a lower species than the breeder. Why do they feel it necessary to sink to this level? I despair of people sometimes. Also, the implication that anyone who agrees with PDE has been brainwashed is quite insulting. I may not be a breeder or dog expert, but I am perfectly capable of reading all the pros and cons and making a considered conclusion. Oh well, not much point hitting one's head up against a brick wall, so I will try to rise above it and not let it bother me too much.

I keep thinking that I will stop posting about this as it gets me all worked up, but I have failed again at this. Must try to calm down!

PS Hope you are now feeling much better Amy.

Best wishes

Ciren
30th September 2008, 09:59 AM
try not to blame yourself, your husband is right some people just will not accept the truth. Mr irvings comment about not listening to scientists about breeding comes to mind. all we can do is try.

thanks for the thoughts, i have a chronic condition so i have good times and bad, i am feeling better tho. the snoring baggage on the sofa helps alot :D

Jan Bell
30th September 2008, 10:01 AM
I always like the sound of a snoring Cavalier -I think it is something you just get used to as a background noise!

Cathy Moon
30th September 2008, 12:44 PM
I still find it incomprehensible that so many breeders can ignore the findings of legitimate research into SM. As far as I can see, their only "champion" is Dr Ingpen. The CKCS club has put a lot of effort and money into reseach, but it's own members don't want to follow the recommendations resulting from this, so seem to either ignor it or try to discredit the research.

My husband tells me that I have to accept that some people will believe whatever they want to, regardless of research and evidence. He says that in science there is rarely conclusive "proof", just a combination of research and likelyhoods that point to a certain direction. There will always be people who use this lack of total proof as a loophole to go the way that causes them the least inconvenice. Look at the climate change debate for instance. Also that change always comes painfully and slowly. I know he is right, but it doesn't make it any the less upsetting.

One comment on another board said that they would rather trust Dr Ingpen than Margaret C re: the Malvern dog's scan, but this makes no sense to me at all. What about giving it to an independent expert? This point has come up again and again, but it is conveniently ignored.

I thought about posting this comment but I find that some of the contributers on this board are really quite unnecessarily unpleasant and don't actually answer the questions put to them anyway. Though actually, a lot of the editorial is far more reasonable, saying that even if they didn't agree with the way Pedigree Dogs Exposed was edited, there were some valid points which the Kennel Club should look at.

There was also a couple of very unpleasant comments made about this board. This is a pet owner's forum, but it's like we are somehow a lower species than the breeder. Why do they feel it necessary to sink to this level? I despair of people sometimes. Also, the implication that anyone who agrees with PDE has been brainwashed is quite insulting. I may not be a breeder or dog expert, but I am perfectly capable of reading all the pros and cons and making a considered conclusion. Oh well, not much point hitting one's head up against a brick wall, so I will try to rise above it and not let it bother me too much.

I keep thinking that I will stop posting about this as it gets me all worked up, but I have failed again at this. Must try to calm down!

Never forget that WE vote with our wallets!

The breeders who protest the loudest are the ones who continue to choose to breed for the show ring at the expense of health. We have a choice of where our next cavalier puppies will come from, and I feel fortunate to know which breeders to avoid. The name-calling and unpleasantness are actually helpful, if you can see it that way.

We cannot change the old-school breeders' approach, but we can work to identify health-focused cavalier breeders and to support them. I feel fortunate to know there are several intelligent breeders who MRI scan and have well-reasoned approaches to both MVD and SM in their breeding programs!

I'm thankful that we have this friendly haven for pet owner friendship, support, and education. The breeders have their own private lists, and we are entitled to ours. If Karlin were to open the door to those folks, many of us would stop coming here.

Jan Bell
30th September 2008, 01:25 PM
:thmbsup: Thank you Cathy, these are good points and make me feel much better. Sometimes you do have to try and look at things differently. And it is true that I would know which people to avoid, and who to ask for good advice now, which I wouldn't have done a few months ago.

Best wishes,