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View Full Version : Kennel Club criticises CKCS Club, supports Margaret Carter



Karlin
7th October 2008, 04:54 PM
Hooray! I knew this would be a MAJOR problem for them... my only surprise is that they didn't try to intervene and resolve BEFORE the vote as they knew it was happening.

http://www.dogmagazine.net/archives/1002/kennel-club-hits-out-at-cavalier-club-supports-margaret-carter/



Kennel Club Hits Out at Cavalier Club; Supports Margaret Carter
Posted By Ryan O'Meara Date: 7/10 Posted Under: Animal Welfare

The Kennel Club has spoken to K9 Magazine about its concern following the decision of the Cavalier King Charles Spaniel club to vote out one of its committee members, Margaret Carter, who spoke out about breed health on the documentary Pedigree Dogs Exposed.

The Kennel Club told us:
The Kennel Club is concerned about the Cavalier King Charles Spaniel Club’s decision to remove breeder, Margaret Carter, from its committee.
Mrs Carter appeared to speak for those very aims that the Kennel Club and the Cavalier King Charles Club itself supports, which is reflected in the vast amount of effort that the breed club has put into ensuring that the health of the breed is progressed. Mrs Carter’s intentions appeared to be honourable and her will to ensure that the health of the breed is maintained, through responsible breeding practices, is one that the Kennel Club fully supports.

The Kennel Club has also issued news today that it is put the health of all of its 209 recognised breeds under review, due to be completed early next year.
Dog lovers all over the country will be heartened to see the Kennel Club taking a positive stand on these issues and the organisation should be resoundingly praised for their support of Margaret Carter on this issue.
The Kennel Club is correct. The Cavalier King Charles Spaniel club is out of step with the opinions of health conscious, right minded dog lovers and they should be ashamed of their actions.

Jan Bell
7th October 2008, 05:36 PM
:rah:More good news! What a nice day this has been! :rah:

cavi lover
7th October 2008, 05:56 PM
At long last some positive news!

Well done to Margaret C and all the others on this board and elsewhere who are campaining for the future health of our wonderful breed.

Daisy's Mom
7th October 2008, 06:48 PM
That is truly awesome! And I'm so happy for Margaret getting some public vindication among reasonable people.

Seriously, the CKCS club should be very embarassed. Hopefully they are, but I suspect they will get angry and close ranks even farther. They certainly came off as self-interested rather than interested in the dogs they are supposed to love! Maybe it will result in a health requirement for showing, or some other change that will be forced on the club members since apparently many of them are uninterested in these things if left to their own devices.

It was so great hearing about the Peke change in breed standard on the earlier thread, too. Frankly, those little guys would look a LOT better with a little bit of nose, between you and me. :wink: Maybe the GSD people will strive for dogs that can actually walk normally! Maybe the pug people will try for less buggy eyes or dogs than can actually reproduce on their own! Miracles can happen! But the key is that the judges adjust their perceptions to make these things actually work.

inca
7th October 2008, 06:54 PM
great to have some good news on a week thats been gloomy :)

EddyAnne
7th October 2008, 07:37 PM
That's interesting news from K9 Magazine, here is some more news, and due to what's mentioned below I wonder if the Kennel Club might be considering withdrawing it's complaint to OFCOM. Anyway have a read of this from this link.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7657161.stm

BBC News
7 October 2008
Pedigree dog rules to be reviewed

The Kennel Club has said that it will review the standards of every pedigree dog in Britain, following concerns about genetic disease.

The club, which organises Crufts, has acted following a BBC documentary which claimed many pedigree dogs suffer ill-health caused by years of inbreeding.

A spokeswoman said the club had listened to public concerns and now agreed that more needs to be done.

The RSPCA said it hoped the review would improve pedigree dog health.

Suffering dogs

The documentary, Pedigree Dogs Exposed, claimed that many pedigree dogs suffer because owners breed them for looks rather than health.

It showed spaniels with brains too big for their skulls and boxer dogs that suffer from epilepsy.

The Kennel Club's first set of new breeding standards applies to Pekingese dogs, traditionally bred have a flat face, which the club admits "can lead to breathing problems."

Under the new health plan, the breed will be required to have a defined muzzle.

Safeguarding health

Caroline Kisko, Kennel Club Secretary, said: "The groundswell of public attention on the very important matters surrounding dog breeding is a welcomed momentum.

"It will enable us to drive through, with added urgency, new and extended initiatives that will help to safeguard the health of our pedigree dogs.

"We have been listening and agree with the general public's view that more needs to be done."

The club is also calling on the Government to give it statutory powers to make its Accredited Breeder Scheme compulsory throughout the country - a system that would make it illegal for non-members to produce or sell puppies.

Breed clubs are also required to join the Kennel Club's code of ethics, which includes a clause that forbids the culling of healthy puppies.

A spokesman for the RSPCA, which announced last month that it was pulling out of Crufts over concerns about the welfare of pedigree dogs, said: "We welcome the review of breed standards and hope it will make a difference for pedigree dog health and welfare in the future."
.

coconut
7th October 2008, 07:45 PM
thats great news, i hope all the good news keeps coming!!!

Jasperxxgabby
7th October 2008, 07:52 PM
:D

sins
7th October 2008, 07:58 PM
Well, Let's wait and see how this impacts on the cavalier Club.
Unless the Kennel club can find a way to prevent any future dog with a neurological disorder from attaining Champion status and reproducing in a prolific manner then there's little hope for the cavalier breed.
Sins

Cathy Moon
8th October 2008, 12:08 AM
What happy news! I'm celebrating, and raising a glass to Margaret!:rah:

Devilica
8th October 2008, 05:13 PM
Well, Let's wait and see how this impacts on the cavalier Club.
Unless the Kennel club can find a way to prevent any future dog with a neurological disorder from attaining Champion status and reproducing in a prolific manner then there's little hope for the cavalier breed.
Sins

Wow, refusing to let people show cavaliers ( or any other breed) without every test being clear would certainly kill off dog showing.

And if the peke now needs a defined muzzle.. does this mean all their perfectly flat faced currently show quality dogs wont get a look in anymore? hmmm looks like crufts is gonna be short on entrants soon....

AT
8th October 2008, 05:31 PM
Wow, refusing to let people show cavaliers ( or any other breed) without every test being clear would certainly kill off dog showing.

And if the peke now needs a defined muzzle.. does this mean all their perfectly flat faced currently show quality dogs wont get a look in anymore? hmmm looks like crufts is gonna be short on entrants soon....


I believe the french club requests that all dogs winning their championship have their hearts & eyes tested or they will not recieve their title.
Dogs also do not recieve a full pedigree until they have been assessed by a judge.

It is accepted over there so why not here ? There is nothing stopping dogs being shown , they just can't take the top prizes

Karlin
8th October 2008, 05:33 PM
Well, 'fully clear' for some issues won't happen and saying so is a red herring -- cavaliers do not even currently need to be clear of SM entirely to be bred under the breeding guidelines -- because there are so few without some level of CM/SM and the breed would be well and truly over if they had to be fully clear of CM and SM as not enough would test to keep genetic diversity, to start with. But there are parameters -- as there are with say hips or eyes (they do not need to be clear of problems, they need to have good results within established parameters) and that is no doubt the kind of framework that should and will be used if a full clear isn't feasible (or necessary).

But showing -- and giving championships -- to dogs that are severely affected on MRI, and/or that are symptomatic even in the ring, is wrong, and such dogs should be rightly banned from being shown and bred. Yet there's a case right now with a well known champion where judges seem complicit in giving a championship, as the dog scratches and bunny hops in the ring on the lead and can hardly be touched so they are all very careful not to make him scream while up on the table. :eek:

I bet most UK breeders at least, no matter your perspective, will know which dog I am talking about. Some have captured his behaviour on video, even. But god forbid this well known kennel be denied its champion because he is a good looking dog and the name is a long standing name.

Another well known dog with SM has been shipped off to the US where he is currently being used at stud even though he appears in the immediate pedigrees of dogs known to have symptomatic SM and has symptoms himself. But the person who moved him on obviously figures lots of US breeders won't know about this problem. Some US breeders won't know, and sadly probably some won't care -- the concern will be 'let's get those old line UK champion dogs into our line' and who cares about the risk of SM. Pet buyers after all don't generally follow pedigrees or know the affected show dogs so they'll buy puppies for $2000 or more and the health guarantee doesn't cover what happens if the dog gets SM and anyway the breeder can always say 'I didn't know when I bred my bitches'.

Believe me, lots and lots of breeders know exactly which dog this is, too.

The fact that the first dog was made a champion, and the second dog is off reproducing in the US, underlines how complicit clubs and breeders are with this kind of thing! Literally the dogs on the street know and have known for years what is going on but no one stops it, no one mentions it, and show life continues. Some clearly become so inurred to it that they find it acceptable just to let puppy buyers know that cavaliers have that problem with hearts and now ACCEPT that high numbers will suffer and die young. They also perhaps have become so immersed in win at all costs culture that they actually believe all of this doesn't really matter and hide what they do know or did once recognise off into some far corner of their brain as it is too difficult to acknowledge.

What happened to Margaret just confirms what happens if a club member DARES to say what EVERYONE knows. And confirms the level of commitment to the breed, and the general courage, needed to say something.

The system needs to be shaken to its core. It looks like the KC has started that process but everyone who cares about dogs needs to make sure things truly change.

And if dog showing gets killed off because the emphasis is put on keeping dogs from suffering to fit a breed standard or a code of silence? Well, it would only confirm much of showing has been about vanity, not 'improving and protecting breeds', wouldn't it? But there are plenty of breeders who have always bred with health foremost, some of whom have accepted their dogs may therefore not be what judges have been looking for -- and they can now come to the fore. Their dogs already pass the recommended health tests. Let the show world restructure around that health and (re-assessed, if necessary) conformation focus, paired.

Devilica
8th October 2008, 05:51 PM
Oh I was not saying that it was wrong that these animals should have health certificates to be shown.. im 100% up for that.

I often thought about showing over the years that I have owned dogs, but refused when my (way back when) sheltie decided his ears didnt want to tip and I was told to stick coins to them with chewing gum to get the desired effect :(

If his ears were naturally meant to stand up who am I to argue? He was one of the most fantastic dogs I ever owned, he was fabulous with children and came everywhere with me ( the days before owning a car and not being afraid to tie your dog up outside the shops.)

Anyway.. every time I start typing I ramble.. so will shh now.

Jan Bell
8th October 2008, 05:56 PM
I was told to stick coins to them with chewing gum to get the desired effect :(


Oh good grief :sl*p: - do they really do these things?

I'm not really a dog show person. Did go to Crufts once but it didn't enjoy it much, just not my sort of thing.

I much prefer agility and obedience where the dogs are stimulated and look like they are enjoying it. Just a personal preference though.

sins
8th October 2008, 05:56 PM
Wow, refusing to let people show cavaliers ( or any other breed) without every test being clear would certainly kill off dog showing.

It would, but I wasn't suggesting that should be done.
What I said was:


prevent any future dog with a neurological disorder from attaining Champion status and reproducing in a prolific manner

There must be fine quality cavaliers out there showing today who don't have SM and I believe they should be made up in preference to a dog who has SM or a dog who cannot prove they are SM clear.

Sins

Alison_Leighfield
8th October 2008, 07:20 PM
Jan Bel,

Once when on holiday the breeder of my Sheltie took her while I was away, I returned to find her upright "Mule" ears (as they call them) perfectly tipped over....she had only used SUPER GLUE!!! can you imagine that....using super glue on a dog :( all in the name of vanity hey!

Alison.

Alison_Leighfield
8th October 2008, 07:43 PM
If the KC is going to review health on all breeds including our CKCS will commercial, BYB and PF's have to comply with health testing before registration? I doubt that will ever happen do you.
Alot of them especially the PF's never have papers and many don't even get registered.

So what improvement and protection will these "non show" dogs receive? surely health requirements should be met across the whole breeding board?

Alison.

Karlin
8th October 2008, 09:45 PM
They'd sure lose a huge source of income if they restricted registration in this way -- but then club registration would actually have some meaning so let's hope that is the goal. Right now club registrations worldwide only signal the lowest possible bar and then only for most but not all breeds.

Increasingly I respect the working dog folks that simply set up their own registration system and breed for function and health, not just a breed standard that may be interpreted in damaging ways. I didn't understand these adequately in the past. Obviously you still have to do a lot of reading and filtering to make sure the registry is legit but I sure no longer think dogs of some breeds that have these legit alternatives need have other registration.

There are so many questions around the new proposals and how they would work. Also the KC is the group that has been so central to arguing that SM levels are only at 2% because that is what their breed health survey said (they didn't disclose how many of those dogs were MRId, and the front page of the survey has a big disclaimer on it about reliability because it depends on self-reporting and small samples in many cases). Eventually they switched tactics and argued that percentages were less important that tackling the issue, but their own geneticist has been totally dismissive of SM at both SM conferences and in the face of all existing worldwide research (he was the geneticist for the club shown on Pedigree Dogs Exposed). So if he runs the proposed genetics centre, that would be alarming to many who care about health across a lot of breeds. And the KC has thus far been pretty dismissive of SM in its public statements so I'd wonder if the breed standard and testing for CKCS would be any different from what it is now -- meaning no tests required, and the MVD protocol not even recommended or indicated within the club ethics guidelines.

I do really like the sound of what they are proposing to do overall, but the devil will be in the details and in having the KC subject to some neutral oversight body.

Pat
9th October 2008, 02:38 AM
Another well known dog with SM has been shipped off to the US where he is currently being used at stud even though he appears in the immediate pedigrees of dogs known to have symptomatic SM and has symptoms himself.

Believe me, lots and lots of breeders know exactly which dog this is, too.

What happened to Margaret just confirms what happens if a club member DARES to say what EVERYONE knows.

This is very problematic for me. I dropped out of the club/show scene years ago because I strongly disagreed with the direction that things were headed and I was just tired and beaten down after some years of service. Despite being an "outsider" now, it is very easy for me to research and find the problems that are “in my own backyard” because I have a 20 year history in the breed. I could even be in harm’s way personally except for the fact that I’ve done my research and also because I will not bring a young Cavalier into my home and heart (only an older dog). But there are so many other pet owners (and even novice breeders) in my region who haven’t figured these things out for themselves; most are novice Cavalier owners. Some have posted here. Recently. We try to point out what to ask for, what to look at and consider, but these folks aren’t really listening. They won’t believe these problems exist until they experience them. I’m reluctant to make direct statements to strangers or casual acquaintances when I don’t have iron-clad facts. I can’t be kicked out of anything now but I’m too old for drama and intrigue. I usually repeat the statements of what certifications to see and I will even say that there are just a handful of breeders from whom I’d buy a Cavalier puppy and I’ll rattle off that list of names. (The only reason anyone pays any attention at all to what I might say is if they learn I’ve had 11 Cavaliers over 20 years and that they’ve all been long-living.) And often I meet people “after the fact” – just met some close friends of my brother, and it was too late. Can’t really say, “Pleased to meet you, and wow, you made a horrible mistake” when they are so proud of their beautiful young Cavalier from champion stock. Mainly, I wait and help pick up the pieces when they phone a few years later for medical advice. Many of the big producers that concern me are incredibly established and prominent. This is a real dilemma. I actually feel rather hopeless.

brotymo
9th October 2008, 02:51 AM
Another well known dog with SM has been shipped off to the US where he is currently being used at stud even though he appears in the immediate pedigrees of dogs known to have symptomatic SM and has symptoms himself.

Believe me, lots and lots of breeders know exactly which dog this is, too.

The fact that the first dog was made a champion, and the second dog is off reproducing in the US, underlines how complicit clubs and breeders are with this kind of thing!


I was speaking with Bandit's breeder over the weekend, and she was telling me about this dog and how he was bundled off here to the US when the heat got too bad over in the UK. Grrrrrr. Shame on the breeders who will even give him the business that makes this profitable for his owner!

Lancelot
9th October 2008, 09:14 AM
....Yet there's a case right now with a well known champion where judges seem complicit in giving a championship, as the dog scratches and bunny hops in the ring on the lead and can hardly be touched so they are all very careful not to make him scream while up on the table. :eek: .....
Another well known dog with SM has been shipped off to the US where he is currently being used at stud even though he appears in the immediate pedigrees of dogs known to have symptomatic SM and has symptoms himself. But the person who moved him on obviously figures lots of US breeders won't know about this problem. Some US breeders won't know, and sadly probably some won't care -- the concern will be 'let's get those old line UK champion dogs into our line' and who cares about the risk of SM....
...
But there are plenty of breeders who have always bred with health foremost, some of whom have accepted their dogs may therefore not be what judges have been looking for -- and they can now come to the fore...

Hello,
if I read all this I'm just sad and angry at the same time.
Sad about the affected dog, who by the stress at the exhibition probably has to endure more pain.
Sad about the puppies that are born, perhaps in order to endure the same pain their father has to. Also sad about the puppy buyer like you or me, as we get sick with the pain we see our dogs are suffering from.
Angry about all those who join, watching and don't say anything.

I'm not interested in exhibitions and Champion titles, so I can not say anything about exhibitions.
I was terribly excited when in one of "our" cavalier-forums I've read that a breeder told on the ring he is no longer notice the evaluation of the dogs listed, but what dog is scratching.
Later if this sentence is cited, will always said that was nonsense.

I wonder with what kind of dogs we want to live? Of course, the appearance has a role, but what means beautiful appearance to dogs and their people when the health or behavior do not fit?

Surely I'm naive and blue-eyed and talking the World "rosarot", but I can not really say what motivates people to deal with dogs in such a way.
Financially beneficial, the desire for the "great names" ... all this can not justify even one suffering dog!

I hope all turns around in the right direction... for the good breeders and our beloved cavaliers!

AT
9th October 2008, 09:31 AM
I wonder with what kind of dogs we want to live? Of course, the appearance has a role, but what means beautiful appearance to dogs and their people when the health or behavior do not fit?

Surely I'm naive and blue-eyed and talking the World "rosarot", but I can not really say what motivates people to deal with dogs in such a way.
Financially beneficial, the desire for the "great names" ... all this can not justify even one suffering dog!
!

I know of a dog in another breed who's owners were proud she gained her title before she died from hydrocephelus at about 18 months.
They were responsable to not breed from her but surely since HC can change head shape you dont want to be sending out a message that that head type was correct & desirable ?

dog showing is certainly a strange world

Lancelot
9th October 2008, 09:46 AM
If I had to endure that my dog with 18 months - not even an adult - has to be put to sleep I rather would have other problems to deal than visting an exhibition.
Horrible.. what price dogs have to pay for the vanity of their people :(

Karlin
9th October 2008, 01:06 PM
what price dogs have to pay for the vanity of their people

:xctly:

Kate H
9th October 2008, 03:13 PM
I much prefer agility and obedience where the dogs are stimulated and look like they are enjoying it. Just a personal preference though.

I can't speak for agility, but Oliver and I do obedience and you'd be appalled at some of the training techniques that are used - such as dogs left shut up all day so that they are keen when finally let out for a training session, and one top handler who is known for stalking out of the ring if his dog makes a mistake and going back to his car to give him a beating. And Border Collies with epilepsy mated to each other just to get a puppy from a good working line. OK, it's a minority, but in obedience as in showing, the desire to win seems to make people forget that it's living DOGS they're dealing with.

Kate and Oliver

AT
9th October 2008, 03:35 PM
I can't speak for agility, but Oliver and I do obedience and you'd be appalled at some of the training techniques that are used - such as dogs left shut up all day so that they are keen when finally let out for a training session, and one top handler who is known for stalking out of the ring if his dog makes a mistake and going back to his car to give him a beating. And Border Collies with epilepsy mated to each other just to get a puppy from a good working line. OK, it's a minority, but in obedience as in showing, the desire to win seems to make people forget that it's living DOGS they're dealing with.

Kate and Oliver


I used to go to dog training run by one of the top crufts obedience people. every owner that joined the class was given a rolled up newspaper to wack the dogs with !
she came into class late once & said her collie was giving birth & she'd left it with a pups leg sticking out , she didnt have time to wait for it

Karlin
9th October 2008, 04:01 PM
I know people who have left the IKC classes out near the airport (not the Dog Training Ireland centre at the opposite side of the airport!!) because many of those trainers insist on choke chains and jerking the dogs around and physically punishing the dog for not understanding it is supposed t sit or lie down.

If anyone is ever in a class where a trainer does anything that is upsetting or insists you do something to your dog that you find upsetting, leave. Training and dog sports should be fun for both dog and owner.

I know some agility people can be obnoxious to their dogs but there's still a lot of hangover training methods and a lot of people who will hit and slap when disappointed. I bet they are a joy to work with in an office, too! :eek:

inca
9th October 2008, 04:05 PM
I used to go to dog training run by one of the top crufts obedience people. every owner that joined the class was given a rolled up newspaper to wack the dogs with !
she came into class late once & said her collie was giving birth & she'd left it with a pups leg sticking out , she didnt have time to wait for it

I would have wacked her with it

opps must say things like that out loud

Jan Bell
9th October 2008, 04:09 PM
I can't speak for agility, but Oliver and I do obedience and you'd be appalled at some of the training techniques that are used - such as dogs left shut up all day so that they are keen when finally let out for a training session, and one top handler who is known for stalking out of the ring if his dog makes a mistake and going back to his car to give him a beating. And Border Collies with epilepsy mated to each other just to get a puppy from a good working line. OK, it's a minority, but in obedience as in showing, the desire to win seems to make people forget that it's living DOGS they're dealing with.



How do these people sleep at night? :mad:

I used to do agility at a local club which was really good fun, but then the lady who took the classes was lovely and would never let anyone mistreat their dog. She used to compete and was a great handler and loved her dogs to bits.

I have quite enjoyed watching obdenience and agility in the past, but I will be thinking of this all the time now. It may be just a minority of highly competitive people but why can they get away with it? :swear:

AT
9th October 2008, 04:11 PM
I would have wacked her with it

opps must say things like that out loud

this was about 10 years ago
All the dogs hated her & non ever learned anything.

I was the only person who didnt have a newspaper & Becky was top of the class :D she even got a prize.

then there was the other class I went to were they were really competative. they had no interest in me with my pet dogs.
I couldnt be bothered with their nitpicking such as dogs having to have their tails straight behind when they sat etc .

& one woman had a habit of hitting her dog on the chin ever few seconds to make it look at her .
people think the dogs look at their owners from devotion when really they are trained to do it.

I would have loved to try agility but both my first dogs had bad knee's

Lancelot
9th October 2008, 04:34 PM
...said her collie was giving birth & she'd left it with a pups leg sticking out , she didnt have time to wait for it

I hope this sentence does not really say what I understand :(.


I think this vicious mistreatment - you gave several examples - to dogs uncovers some humans way of venting their frustration on animals.
I don't understand why dogs rarest revenge:confused:

Sabby
11th October 2008, 12:12 AM
Oh my god I didn’t think agility and obedience could be like that.
I must say I took mine to puppy classes nothing else and it’s only in the last few months I got interested in obedience classes. I had a look at a few classes and I didn’t really like what I saw in one of them. Nothing bad but the instructor was clearly into agility and she was only interested in a dog if she thought it would be good at agility otherwise she didn’t give you much attention. So now I travel 35 miles to get to my obedience class and I think its well worth it.
Sabby

Karlin
11th October 2008, 12:15 AM
A good trainer is def. worth travelling for! :)

cecily
11th October 2008, 09:55 AM
I know people who have left the IKC classes out near the airport (not the Dog Training Ireland centre at the opposite side of the airport!!) because many of those trainers insist on choke chains and jerking the dogs around and physically punishing the dog for not understanding it is supposed t sit or lie down.

And these are the EDUCATED people????! :eek: How many people have gone back to their homes after these kind of 'training' and continued to beat their dogs? And then have passed on their 'knowledge' to other people?

A good friend of mine has just got a springer puppy and mentioned that she was nipping a lot and her husband had started slapping her gently on the nose for it. She didn't like this and was looking for advice. But you can hardly blame her or her husband for thinking this was an appropriate response when you hear about all the trainers that advocate it.

I suppose though we can take heart from the fact that years ago it was considered absolutely fine to slap your child. (spare the rod and spoil the child :eek: ) It's certainly not fine now so hopefully more appropriate ways of dog training will become a little more widespread in years to come.

cavi lover
11th October 2008, 10:12 AM
I would just like to make it known that I do agility with 2 of my dogs one of whom has just started competing.
The club I belong to has in their code of conduct [which you have to sign up to to join] it states very clearly that harsh handling of any sort will not be tolerated at all and members will be asked to leave.Also no choke chains allowed.

I was sort of told off for using to harsher tone with Timmy when we first started.Tha t is how strict they are.

I was at an agility competion last Saturday and on 2 occasions handlers were warned abou their conduct.One grabbed hold of the dogs collar and pulled him towards her quite agressively when he ran off course, the other smaked his nose for stopping to eat horse poo half way round the course.

So please do not think bad of agility folk There will always be the minority who spoil it for the majority

Jan Bell
11th October 2008, 10:38 AM
The club I belong to has in their code of conduct [which you have to sign up to to join] it states very clearly that harsh handling of any sort will not be tolerated at all and members will be asked to leave.


Very pleased to hear this. When I used to do agility my club was similar. I travelled quite a way to go there. It's all a case of getting a good club, whether it is agility, obedience or training.

I like to think that it is the minority of agility people who mistreat their dogs, and the majority just enjoy it.

Karlin
11th October 2008, 11:23 AM
I do think it is the minority -- same for obedience.

For anyone looking for tons and tons of great training advice including videos and the online FREE version (http://www.dogstardaily.com/training) of parts of Dr Ian Dunbar's Before and After you get your Puppy (also excellent for general dog problems in chapter 6) check out Dog Star Daily (http://www.dogstardaily.com/). Please let other dog lovers know about this wonderful resource.