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bertieboy
12th October 2008, 07:01 PM
Hi,
I phoned a breeder about a puppy but it had been sold, she has offered me a 7yr old black and tan female who has always been an outdoor dog. She said she has never gotten pregnant when they tried to mate her in the past, she now wants to cut back on her numbers. She says that she is a friendly, happy girl that loves to give kisses. My main worry would be house training a 7yr old, has anyone here done this? Is it near impossible to train a dog of this age?
Thanks!!

frecklesmom
12th October 2008, 07:14 PM
Annie, black and tan, was 6 yr and 5 mo and from a commercial breeder. She used a doggie door at the breeders-kenneled in a hellish structure. She took 4 wks to house train and ,I believe, part of a problem I had with her was her complete ignoring of me. She loved to be on my lap and get carried when the snow was deep but somehow there wasn't an actual connection being made-hard to explain. People weren't a priority with her-directions were meaningless to her. She would not make eye contact. It took until this summer-year and 4 months later-to see a change in her eyes and whole demeanor. She was at all times a nice little lady but now I'm important to her.
I've learned a lot from my puppy mill furkids. :)

bertieboy
12th October 2008, 07:32 PM
Im a bit confused- it says ive received a reply but i dont see it here?:confused:

bertieboy
12th October 2008, 07:35 PM
dont worry i see it now!!! Must be going mad.

bertieboy
12th October 2008, 07:40 PM
So she may not bond with people do you think? I get the impression that she is kenneled on her own, she does have occasional trips inside the house i think. Not sure if she does now or if that was when she was a puppy. 7 years kept outside in a kennel i thought she would be desperate for attention.

Alison_Leighfield
12th October 2008, 07:48 PM
At the moment I have two ex breeding cavs with me, ages roughly 4 and 6 from Welsh Puppy Farms, Trudy and Madge. Both would have lived outside. We have owned Trudy for 5 months and Madge for 3 wks now. We have owned others in the past as well.
I havn't had an accident from either of the two girls to this day.

Routine and commitment from all in the family was very important and things have worked out just fine. It was a trip to the garden every 2hrs to begin with and a small food reward was given with a verbal "good job" if they went to the toilet and then we returned indoors. The kitchen door to the garden was always left open for the first week or so as well. During the first few nights I got up very early and there was never an accident from them.
Now they sit by the door if it's shut and they let me know themselves if it's time to go out when they need the toilet.
I still go back to the old routine now and again just to refresh and remind them, but once they latched onto a reward being given for a wee they couldn't get into the garden fast enough!

I have found training older dogs like these far easier than a puppy. Routine and patience works best.

Good Luck :)

Alison.

Karlin
12th October 2008, 07:51 PM
To be honest: I would view a dog like this as a rescue dog and this does not sound like an ethical breeder. If you want to take on such a dog it would be a kindness and I certainly would NOT pay a breeder for such a dog except to cover spay expenses (what is she doing still trying to have a 7 year old kennel dog have litters? Why didn't she spay her ages ago?).

If you are considering buying a dog, please have a read through how to find a breeder as the process whether for puppy or adult is the same: you want cardiologist clearances on parents and grandparents, ideally you want the dog to have been MRI scanned (for an adult) or its parents to have been (puppy or adult), you want the hip scores and eye certs as well (for this adult dog, not just the parents). If the breeder cannot produce any of this for a dog she has been actually trying to use in her breeding programme, RUN as fast as you can in the other direction.

Housetraining an adult is the dame process as a puppy but with caveats. It can be easier -- or it can be harder. Some kennel dogs will never be fully reliable inside and you must be willing to accept this. They also will not always be the best socialised dogs and it is much harder to address this as a remedial issue than to train a young dog. It is very rewarding to bring such dogs around to what should have been a normal life all along but this is not usually an easy task and you need to be able to make a full commitment to the dog, not view it as needing to meet some standards -- often this type of dog will never be a normal housedog and it is unfair to expect this.

If you are a first time dog owner, or feel out of your depth with a rescue dog (as this dog is going to be EXACTLY like the basic backyard breeder/puppy farm rescue dog if it is of unhealth-checked breeding and a poorly socialised, un-housetrained lifetime kennel dog :( ) I'd recommend looking for an adult cavalier that has lived inside with its breeder/family or a puppy from an excellent, health focused breeder who does have all the correct health clearances. This is a breed with some significant health problems, some of the risk of which can be hugely lowered by going to a breeder who follows the MVD protocol in particular. Plenty of cavaliers bred disregarding it die at young ages -- it is horrible to patronise breeders who do this to the breed and a heartbreak to lose your dog at only 5 or 6. Please take the time to either work with an ethical, health-focused breeder whose dogs are part of the INDOOR family, or else opt for a rescue dog. But do not pay someone like this for what is essentially a rescue case (and she KNOWS it). If you do decide to take the dog as a rescue case she should at the very least spay her before rehoming.

Make a decision with your head, not just your heart-- though I know that can be hard. There are many dogs that need homes; don't take on a dog you are not fully committed to for its lifetime regardless of difficulties and possible problems. :thmbsup:

Alison_Leighfield
12th October 2008, 07:55 PM
......also they both like other people, are great with my other dogs, enjoy agility classes, love their walks, wag their tails 24/7, just so happy to be safe and secure.

Yes you will have to work on the trust part as these dogs have most possibly been abused etc, so be gentle but kind and firm, calm and quiet and it comes with time, like I say routine and patience I found works best :)

Alison.

bertieboy
12th October 2008, 08:01 PM
I kind of gathered that she wasnt a good breeder but when she told me about Penny i did feel my heartstrings being pulled!! Id love to let her have a HOME with lots of love. The 'breeder' has shetland sheepdog puppies and she breeds burmese cats too- she currently has 2 'unplanned' litters from her cats. We already have two labradors so i wouldn't say im an inexperienced dog owner. I just dont know what to do!! I keep thinking of her being there until she dies as the lady hasnt said if she will put her on an advert or try to find her a good home if we dont have her.

Alison_Leighfield
12th October 2008, 08:04 PM
bertieboy, where are you, are you in the U.K?

Alison

lorebringer
12th October 2008, 08:07 PM
House training dgos who have become set in their ways can be a tricky situation but it definately is not impossible. I tend to bring them out (let them do the walking themselves unless it is totally impossible, because it reinforces where they are going) to the garden every hour to go, give them 5/10 mins and then go back in and try again another hour later until they go (and masses of praise is given... maybe even a nice treat!). If they do go in the house, bringing the dog to where they went and showing it to them (but don't shove their faces in it, that's terrible), saying a very firm "no/bold etc" and putting them out for a few mintues gives them the messege that they are bold and this is the place to go. It will take a good bit of patience but I have done this with several dogs and it does work (even though your own sanity will be tested!)

I agree with Karlin that you should treat the new dog as a rescue - home life will be very different for her and she will need time to get used to it. Establishing that you are the good guy may take time but all the hard work will pay off - good luck :thmbsup:

bertieboy
12th October 2008, 08:17 PM
Yes i live in gloucester but the 'breeder' is not in gloucester

Alison_Leighfield
12th October 2008, 09:28 PM
Have PM'd you,

Alison.

sins
12th October 2008, 10:56 PM
I certainly wouldn't touch a puppy from this individual.As for housetraining a 7 year old....technically it can be done,seeing as you have two dogs that she could learn from. It all depends on whether or not the dog is used to people and is able to interact with people and other dogs.
A family member of mine has an almost nine year old ex breeding bitch who was kept outside who adapted with a fair amount of effort. She has a double heart murmur which was known about in advance from a pre placement vet check.She's most likely going to need medication shortly.
With a dog like you describe, you need to accept that your time with her may be limited, her lifespan and health may be compromised and that you'll need to spend a lot on vet bills for an old girl like that.
It is pretty much like taking a rescue dog with all the committment and understanding it takes.If you feel this dog has a home with you, then don't offer a penny for this poor creature.As often happens when one bitch exits it creates a vacancy for a new inmate.
If however a puppy is what you want, that you can raise and bond with as it grows, then that it what you should do.
Sins

Elaine 2
13th October 2008, 12:04 AM
I took my Cody in when she was 8 years old and Ive had her 16 months and l wouldn't change a thing, she was an ex breeding girl she had a couple of accidents at first but it didn't take her long to learn, I'd do it all again with another oldie she's brought us so much joy
She has a heart murmur but as yet she's on no meds, just check up's at the vets