Annual Vet Visit

Hi

I know this subject has been covered many times prior ,but Poppy (2 yrs 3 mths) and Rosie (1 yr 3 mths) have been summoned for their annual (even though they have had many other visits) check ,so the question pls refers to their booster jabs do I accept whatever the vets give or are there any I should refuse ,I also know to request the injections in their back legs .The part of their inspection I do not like is when the Vets check their heart beat I think my heart always stops then ,even though they all scoot very occasionally should I ask for their anal glands to be emptied or shall I leave well enough alone . Is there anything else I have missed ,oh I will ask for a weight as well so I can compare my scales as poor Poppy seems to be destined to be on a permanent diet ,though they all love most of all the dried fish treats which I get from Zooplus ,I had a big order yesterday of died sprats, dried whiting ,dried cod and dried sand eels but I only give occasionally ,they are supplied as a dried whole food treat/supplement and the girls make a lovely crunching noise as they get devoured which Dawn seems not to like at all .

I have a regime for vaccines which differs from the norm so I may as well say so you can think about it. I got my advice from a vet who lectures in this. She told me this maybe a year ago and it was the latest research.

Lepto lasts one year, the others last two. She said to give Lepto every year and the others including Lepto the next and keep alternating.

Now I know some like the 3 years booster, it was what I planned but I was told this is only safe if all the dogs in your area are on a 3 year booster. I know in my area many people don't vaccinate.

Hi Pauline

Thanks for your reply as you may see I am totally ignorant on this so may I ask ,how many different infections are they protected from in the annual boosters I thought they were just given one injection and if so is that made up of many constituants and threfore could I be as selective as you arein picking what to have. Just had a quick Google and there seems a lot of variance in advice on what to have and what not to .I am more confused now as like all of us we just want whats best .

I'll be honest, I can't remember. I went all the way to Standstead to get Lepto separately then was told it's always a single jab so my vet could have done it. I think, not sure, the others are in one jab. I don't like combined vaccines either, I don't think you can get them. Kennel cough goes up the nose in a spray.

Big tip. Don't have vaccine in back of neck or leg. Ask for it to be in chest, yoke area. Better absorption and away from neck for obvious reasons and leg can be hurt by jab.

Big tip. Don't have vaccine in back of neck or leg. Ask for it to be in chest, yoke area. Better absorption and away from neck for obvious reasons and leg can be hurt by jab.

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Interesting, I never thought about that. Mine have always gotten theirs in their back thigh area.

As far as vaccines, I know this is a controversial topic and everyone has their own opinion on what's best for their dog. I don't follow what my vet recommends. Mine had their single injection puppy shots for parvo and distemper and then had the rabies shot at 9 months - do you even give rabies over there?

They have and will continue to be titred for parvo and distemper and will only receive the injection they need (and NEVER a booster). Miles was titred a few months ago for parvo/distemper and his protection was still strong from 1 year ago, so I did not have him injected again. I will have him titred again next year, along with Truman, who had a horrible reaction to the parvo vaccine. I'm undecided about rabies, I might do it every 3 years. They do not receive Lepto or kennel cough. I also order homeopathic remedies that they are given before and/or after injections to reduce the chance of a bad reaction, especially with Truman.

and NEVER a booster

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But the adult vax is a 'booster' -- it is simply the repeat of the vax.

Just be aware titers are not always accurate.

Pauline the three year vaccine is the exact same content as the one year vaccine. The only difference is when you give it. It doesn't matter what other other dogs are on the same schedule or not -- either the dog has antibodies, or it doesn't.

I use the schedule widely accepted by vet schools now and by the main American vets association -- every three years for core vaccines and every year for lepto. We don't give rabies in Ireland or the UK so that isn't an issue. And I do not vaccinate at all after age 7 as evidence is very good that by this time, after a couple of sets of vaccinations, dogs and cats have lifetime immunity. But you can titer to get an estimate.

But the adult vax is a 'booster' -- it is simply the repeat of the vax.

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Sorry, I meant "combined" vaccine, not booster! Yes, mine will receive the booster if they need it.

Just be aware titers are not always accurate.

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Do you mean that the results could be wrong? My vet is able to see the level at which they're protected and not just "protected" or "not protected"...I thought that was good enough, is it not?

Oh I see what you mean. There is the choice of combined or separate too. I just give the combined every three years myself.

Titers are widely recognised by researchers as having varying accuracy and you also get lab errors. I understand some antibodies can be measured more accurately than others.

I don't use them -- both because of cost and because I am happy with the research showing a three year schedule is fine.

Worth checking your insurance documents to make sure they don't have any vaccination stipulations.

Hi
Just the point I was going to make ,as mentioned in a previous post i have just changed insurers to AXA and they state.

During the period of insurance YOU must ensure that YOUR PET is vaccinated each year against distemper,hepatitis,leptospirosis and parvovirus for dogs and feline infectious enteritis ,feline leukaemia (I lost my beautiful ginger cat named Fudge aged 3 to that )and cat flu for cats.

So does that put a lid on my rquest for anything different

Karlin said:

Pauline the three year vaccine is the exact same content as the one year vaccine. The only difference is when you give it. It doesn't matter what other other dogs are on the same schedule or not -- either the dog has antibodies, or it doesn't.

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Yes thats right, it's the same content whenever you give it but the Lepto vaccine gives immunity for only one year so if you come into contact with a dog with Lepto in the 2nd and 3rd year, your dog can catch it.

The same with the other vaccines, but they last 2 years so in your 3rd year, your dog is not immune.

Worth checking your insurance documents to make sure they don't have any vaccination stipulations.

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Good point. I did check with my pet insurance (Pet Care) when I first insured Miles, and they said as long as the claim doesn't have to do with the fact that your pet did not receive a vaccine that they will cover the claim. If Miles falls and breaks a leg, he will be covered even though he has not had all of the recommended vaccines. All insurance companies are different though...Pet Care also covers herditary/congenital conditions, which is why it's more expensive than other policies out there.

cy1266 said:

Good point. I did check with my pet insurance (Pet Care) when I first insured Miles, and they said as long as the claim doesn't have to do with the fact that your pet did not receive a vaccine that they will cover the claim. If Miles falls and breaks a leg, he will be covered even though he has not had all of the recommended vaccines.

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Thanks very much for posting this clarification. I currently don't carry insurance on any of my five (most are seniors, the youngest is 6) although I've spent much time deliberating on whether to insure the 6 year old (heart clear and no symptoms of SM, PSOM, etc. in his written vet records - only pre-existing condition would be one luxated patella which is grade 1 and won't require surgery).

One of the reasons I've hesitated to purchase a policy is that I don't give any vaccinations to any senior dogs (I do core vaccines only for young dogs at intervals recommended by Dr. Dodds and Dr. Schultz), and I knew that I wouldn't risk vaccinations just to qualify for insurance. So your post was a welcome piece of information.

Thanks again,

Pat

Pat said:

Thanks very much for posting this clarification. I currently don't carry insurance on any of my five (most are seniors, the youngest is 6) although I've spent much time deliberating on whether to insure the 6 year old (heart clear and no symptoms of SM, PSOM, etc. in his written vet records - only pre-existing condition would be one luxated patella which is grade 1 and won't require surgery).

One of the reasons I've hesitated to purchase a policy is that I don't give any vaccinations to any senior dogs (I do core vaccines only for young dogs at intervals recommended by Dr. Dodds and Dr. Schultz), and I knew that I wouldn't risk vaccinations just to qualify for insurance. So your post was a welcome piece of information.

Thanks again,

Pat

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I agree Pat--I give core vaccines that are reliant to our area, ONLY.
I don't give dogs with health issues shots either. It says right on the packages to give to healthy dogs. Vaccine manufacturers aren't ever going to do studies saying that their shots last much longer than they want you to get them. The one study I saw was testing shots 3-7 years out and finding good coverage.

Yes thats right, it's the same content whenever you give it but the Lepto vaccine gives immunity for only one year so if you come into contact with a dog with Lepto in the 2nd and 3rd year, your dog can catch it.

The same with the other vaccines, but they last 2 years so in your 3rd year, your dog is not immune.

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Yes this is important for those who give lepto -- and it probably isn't quite a full year either. Kennel cough is 6 months. But it isn't true that dogs would have no immunity in the third year on a three year schedule -- there's plenty of evidence that immunity lasts well beyond three years, sometimes even for life on a single adult dose for some diseases. The three year recommendation -- where the dog or cat is definitely covered for the full three years -- comes from the top vet authorities, organisations and vet schools in the US and is now the standard recommendation given from the vet schools. There are many, many studies now showing three years is the *minimum* period of safety. Titres often show immunity for many years after that too. There's research ongoing on whether to actually offer even smaller doses of vaccine to smaller breeds as well.

This link has a lot of good info on vaccinations and the current recommendations.

University of Cailfornia, Davis vet school recommendations (one of the world's leading vet schools):

http://www.vmth.ucdavis.edu/vmth/clientinfo/info/genmed/vaccinproto.html

Canine Parvovirus, Distemper Virus, and Adenovirus-2 Vaccines

For initial puppy vaccination (< 16 weeks), one dose of vaccine containing modified live virus (MLV) CPV, CDV, and CAV-2 is recommended every 3-4 weeks from 6-8 weeks of age, with the final booster being given no sooner than 16 weeks of age. For dogs older than 16 weeks of age, two doses of vaccine containing modified live virus (MLV) CPV, CDV, and CAV-2 given 3-4 weeks apart are recommended. After a booster at one year, revaccination is recommended every 3 years thereafter, ideally using a product approved for 3-year administration, unless there are special circumstances that warrant more or less frequent revaccination. Note that recommendations for killed parvovirus vaccines and recombinant CDV vaccines are different from the above. These vaccines are not currently stocked by our pharmacy or routinely used at the VMTH. We do not recommend vaccination with CAV-1 vaccines, since vaccination with CAV-2 results in immunity to CAV-1, and the use of CAV-2 vaccines results in less frequent adverse events.

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I've never heard over here of anyone giving a special three year product -- must ask my vets next time and ask what the difference is.

Thanks for the links. I'll have to think again anyway as now Dylan may not be classed as fit for vaccines.

Actually, the studies I've read on some lepto vaccs say that immunity lasts perhaps six months, far short of one year. Also, there are quite a few lepto servovars, and the different lepto vaccs cover different servovars, which may or may not be prevalent in your area. In summary, there may be a false sense of protection so study up on the particular vacc your vet gives, which servovars it covers, and which servovars are in your particular area. Also, lepto isn't contracted from other dogs per se, but from urine - canine, rodent, raccoon, etc. It can be caught from drinking from puddles, swimming in lakes, licking urine from the ground (which is why dogs contract the disease more than bitches as they tend to be more interested in checking out urine), etc. It can cause acute kidney failure, so it is a serious disease. If I were worried about exposure to lepto, I'd give the vacc every six months. It is also the vacc that is most commonly associated with reactions in small breed dogs. Lepto is a bacterial disease versus a virus (like parvo and distemper); thus the much shorter duration of immunity for the vacc.

Regarding vaccinations for viral diseases - current studies by Dr. Schultz are showing duration of immunity at least 7 years and probably nearer to 15 years. See vaccine recommendations by Dr. Jean Dodds (she and Dr. Ron Schultz are the “gurus” of vacc protocol research).

http://www.weim.net/emberweims/Vaccine.html

The vet schools are TOO SLOW to react – they rejected the three year protocols when Drs. Schultz/Dodds recommended those; now they have accepted the three year protocols but Drs. Schultz/Dodds and others have moved BEYOND that.

Similarly, the suspected duration of immunity for rabies is many, many years. See:

http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/

to read about Dr. Dodds and Dr. Schultz in their efforts to extend the legal requirements to every 5 years and then to every 7 years. I've heard anecdotal info that no dog that has ever received TWO rabies vaccs during his/her lifetime has ever contracted rabies. I've never been able to find a citation on that, but I personally believe it to be true.

Back in the late 90's, I spent much time researching the vaccination controversy, and Dr. Bob Rogers' (my personal hero) website www.critteradvocacy.org was a great source of information as there are published veterinary studies, etc., there - an excellent bibliography. Dr. Rogers has not been popular in the veterinary profession as he has been a very outspoken maverick and critic of vaccination protocols of the past - he even began a class action lawsuit on the matter.

http://www.petresource.com/Articles of Interest/texas_vet.htm

This link may be of interest to UK members:

http://www.britfeld.com/vaccine-thompson.htm

As I've posted several times on other forums, I stopped annual vaccinations back in 1997. I moved to every three years and running titers, but I fairly quickly concluded that even every three years is too often and that money spent running titers could be better spent elsewhere - such as annual (moving to semi-annual as dogs age) routine blood chemistry for my middle aged to seniors. (If you have an interest, research "memory cells" versus "antibodies.")

And Sandy is right about not vaccinating any dogs with acute or chronic health problems who are not in top condition and who already have immune system challenges. I am truly convinced (and my vet team also is now convinced and has made recommendations based on my experience along with their own research) that my very limited vaccination use over ten plus years has been a factor in my Cavaliers living into their teens.

Pat

Hi

Back from the Vets I was concerned at the start as the vets I normally see were not there just two vets who I had no knowledge of, so I quietly asked the nurse at reception who advised me of the vet who had the most experience ,no disrespect to anyone but not too far away is The L/pool Uni Vet School at Leahurst and I hope I don't sound mean but some times they have on release students .I bet that sounds awful but its not meant to. But she was excellent and Rosie who is just 15 months had all of the vaccination constituents (Lepto 2 and DHP) while Poppy just had Lepto and she explained the inoculation regime just as Pauline advised.The part i don't like the heart check took longer than I liked but they were fine ,Rosie has a bit of wax down one ear but I have drops for that and poor Poppy is still overweight and she advised RC light or Hill light but shes already on Burns light so I am a bit undecided what to do except strictly no treats.

Ami my 15 yr old white cat had her booster but shes drinking more water and has 1 discolored back tooth so I have to watch out for her.But the big concern is my other beautiful other white cat Tammy ,she is about 12 (they were 2 rescues) and she has two lumps to the side of her chest and the Vet suspects Breast C so I hate to say shes booked in for an operation on Tuesday.I do so hope she will be fine shes been around for many years and I want her around for many more .So the Vets was not a good visit but I think its what I expected.

Tammy ( 2 pics )


Sorry to digress from our Cavs

Hi Brian

You say Poppy still over weight but has she lost any yet?

The foods you listed are all the same for weight lost, so I don't think changing will make any difference, but no treats should be stuck too, how ever hard it is when they give you the eyes.

Have you upped her excise?

I also have a big cavalier who is prone to weight gain if I let him. Check the calorie count on the food you're giving Poppy. I know that when I checked RC light it was higher in calorie than the one I give Oliver. I feed him Artemis, which is about 100 calories less per cup than RC light. I don't know how Burns compares to that, but it's worth checking out. And I only give him one half cup of food per day. I feel cruel, but any more than that and he gains weight.