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View Full Version : I have a cavalier related problem..



Katelyn
23rd October 2008, 07:59 PM
Ok well heres the story..I know a lady who lives nearby me who has a beautiful female Cav. She's around two I think and her owner loves cavs but heres the problem..I really dont think this lady or her husband really understand cavaliers. They obviously havnt trained her properly because when shes inside she wees on the floor and they both go crazy at her screeching and they slap her bum..its not exactly abuse they dont slap her hard but its horrible to watch evertime she does something as small as standing up they scream LIE DOWN!!there not bad people they just dont seem to understand dogs they leave her outside almost all day theres a big shed she can go in but she rarely does she just scratches at the door and when she does they shout GO TO BED and then they say things like i'll kill that bloody dog!im not really sure what to do because I think they'll get offened if I say something its not like they abuse her she's fed every day and the lady does give her affection just most of the day shes stuck outside and they cant seem to understand its their own fault if she isnt fully trained. Shes also bolts out the front door and wont come back at all when its opened i mentioned that it could be because shes never walked but they said no cavs are just a naturally stupid breed I think they woud be suited for a totally different breed...sorry about the long post its just been at the back of my mind if i should do something..but i really do want to stress that these are actually very nice people they just have little patience and the husband thinks dogs are dogs and should stay outside and as long as they have food and shelter..all advice is very very welcome!!

Phoebe
23rd October 2008, 08:06 PM
Not having a go at you at all Katelyn, but....

People like that should not have a dog.....any dog.

You are right to be concerned.

Lisa_T
23rd October 2008, 08:08 PM
I don't know, but for a soft breed like a Cavalier being shouted at and hit (no matter how gently) and being kept outside most of the time IS verging on a abuse, if it isn't there already!!! No wonder you're worried. It really doesn't sound like a Cav is the breed for them. Besides, I'm not sure a shed would offer much in the way of warmth or shelter to a Cav at this time of the year when it's getting colder!

cy1266
23rd October 2008, 08:27 PM
That's really sad...would you ever offer to take the dog if they're willing to give it up to someone who would actually care for and love this little dog? Just an idea, it's nice that you're concerned and trying to help! :)

Katelyn
23rd October 2008, 08:35 PM
I dont think Id be able to take her,I have my own puppy and I babysit my Grans cav a lot too!im just really stuck I dont know what to do..

shippers
23rd October 2008, 08:45 PM
Perhaps you could offer to take the dog and then hand her over to a cavalier rescue? That way she would hopefully find a loving permanent home. It is difficult but this poor dog deserves a better life than she has. It is good that there are caring dog owners like yourself who can help these poor dogs.

Katelyn
23rd October 2008, 09:05 PM
I cant really say to them though..oh I notice you dont treat your dog the way your supposed to do yoou mind if I take her?the lady does love her and the dog seems pretty happy iv seen this lady in bits when the dog went missing once...:(

coconut
23rd October 2008, 09:11 PM
i am with phoebe on that one i don't think they should be allowed have a dog at all!!! they are the stupid ones not the bloody dog. i just don't understand how people can treat dog like that when they don't treat humans like it!!!

pippa
23rd October 2008, 09:22 PM
I'm sorry to say this but I don't see how the Lady can as you say 'Love' the dog the way she treats it. I don't know what to say to help you but I think either say something to her or contact the local spca or dog warden and have them drop in for a word with her. Just some friendly advice.

Sorry if I sound harsh but if a neighbour of mine was treating a cav(or any dog) like this I wouldn't be able to sleep for worrying. I mean leaving the poor little thing out the back and shouting at her when she tries to come in! It's horrible..you are right to be concerned.

Jpup
23rd October 2008, 09:36 PM
I would be phoning the RSPCA or similar This has disgusted and upset me. That poor dog is not loved and if anyone is questioning if she is ask yourself if you would treat your pet like that? of course not. Those people should never be allowed to have a pet.

brotymo
24th October 2008, 02:32 AM
You could say that you really do like their dog alot, and if they ever decide they'd like to find her another home (since they have expressed that she isn't a good fit for their family), you'd love to have her (make some excuse like you have a relative who is looking for an adult cav, and you think she'd be perfect for them etc. etc). Perhaps they'd take you up on the offer and it won't look like you are accusing them of anything. Then you could turn her over to a rescue for rehoming.

IluvCavs
24th October 2008, 04:42 AM
I feel very sad for this poor dog!!
You can always approach them in a manner that since their dog seems to stress them out and cause them headaches that you would be willing to take the dog and find him a home that could spend the time needed to train him properly.
Then allow Cavalier Rescue to take him in.
I would not have been silent this long but I am not known for keeping my opinions to myself.
People that know me know that I am seriously devoted to animals and I wouldn't hesitate to upset someone by telling them if I thought they were mistreating an animal. I wouldn't care if they didn't like it!

It doesn't mean they will listen to you but I would at least bring up the subject. Some people just think they are stuck with a dog and may be relieved to have someone take him off their hands.

Eliseus
24th October 2008, 04:32 PM
Hi Katelyn,

Having read your post I have to admit I had a similar situation about 6 years ago, the problem was the owner of the Cav was my best friend.
Molly was about 8 years old at the time and she lived in the kitchen on a dirty hand towel, they fed her when they remembered, they would go away to my friends parents for the weekend leaving the dog locked in the kitchen and then would wonder why she had had the kitchen bin over and scavanged through it and done her business on the floor....not really suprising!
Molly was constantly shouted at and was only allowed in the kitchen.
Whenever I went to the house she would go mental cuz i would make such a fuss of her and every time my friend would say 'Take her home with you if you want!', the only problem was my parents had said no more dogs!
Well my friend decided to go on holiday to spain for two weeks and asked me to go up to the house twice a day to feed molly and let her out to the loo and feed the guinee pig.
On the first day I went up to the house took one look at Molly and said to her 'come on lets go home, your not staying here if it's the last thing I do!'.
Molly came home with me and my dad fell in love with her and she fell in love with him, by the end of the two weeks we had decided she wasnt going back to my friend.
So when my friend got home I told her Molly was now staying with me forever.
Unfortunately Molly had a really bad heart condition and although she had been diagnosed many years earlier, because my friend couldnt afford the treatment she had never had any of the medication she required.
After a few months Molly went from Skinny to overweight which was when we found out about the heart condition, so from then on she cost £80 a month in medication, and snored like a thunder storm :D
Molly was with us for 5 years and was the lovliest girl ever, even though she had had an awful life until she came to us she was loving, great with kids and daft as a brush. I miss her everyday and would take her again and again if i had to.
My only problem since then was that 2 years ago my friend went and got another dog (a Westie) who is treated better than Molly ever was but is still only allowed in the Kitchen. Then a few months after I got Ruby and Evie this year, she got another puppy!
I'm very angry about it and just hope that they never have to go through what Molly did, and if I ever catch her mistreating them I will be calling the RSPCA straight away!

Sorry for the long post but I just had to tell you about my experience and encourage you to either take the dog yourself or call the RSPCA.

Another friend of mine lived next door to someone who was mistreating their puppy and in the end she and her mother stole the puppy while it was tied up outside in the middle of the night and the mother took it home with her.:jump:
People who mistreat, hit, starve and leave their dogs outside don't deserve to be parents to the dogs and ought to be reported!

daveoirl
24th October 2008, 04:57 PM
It really annoys me when people say Cavs are "a naturally stupid breed". What a load of baloney! Amie is one of the most intelligent and fastest learning little dogs we have ever had.

Also, I remember a Vet on TV saying that the Cavaliers brain is the same size as a Labrador..........and this is one of the reasons they get SM. Labradors are intelligent dogs, unfortunately Cavaliers are just as intelligent. I would easily sacrifice a little of their intelligence if it meant they weren't prone to SM.

It is so horrible to hear about situations where animals are being mistreated. Especially as I am always thinking, that poor little thing would be so much better with us......and then I realise how lucky Amie is! If only all dog owners were as loving and responsible as everyone on this website.

Katelyn
24th October 2008, 05:22 PM
Thanks everyone so much for all your advice-keep it coming!its nice to finally share this problem and get some feedback.

KingstonsMom
24th October 2008, 10:04 PM
I think it's easy for people to say just take the dog yourself or call the SPCA. However, this person is your neighbor and you DO have to live next to her. If this woman has never expressed an interest in getting rid of her dog, she could be totally stunned and insulted if you offer to adopt her. This will push the woman further away from you and hurt any chance you may have had to help this poor animal. Furthermore, if you call the SPCA, what can they do? Do you have evidence of neglect? Leaving a dog outside is not considered neglect by SPCA standards, as long as there is food and shelter present.

This woman needs to be educated on how dogs should be treated. Perhaps you could have a very respectful chat with her about your concerns. You'd have to approach her in a way that will not put her on the defensive. If you're not comfortable doing that, type an anonymous letter and put it in her mailbox. Who knows...You could change the way she treats animals for the rest of her life.

babs
24th October 2008, 10:44 PM
Hi,Ive had a similar experience to yours except the woman who isnt treating her dog right is a member of our extended family.She has a 10mth old springer spaniel he is gorgeous,lively but in no way controlled.He wees everywhere in the house and when he does he gets punished but the reason he wees is because he hasnt been trained at all.She doesnt have the time,patience or willingness to properly train or look after her little pup.She illtreats him constantly,leaves him outside in the rain,doesnt take him on a regular walk and yet if she does bring him out he goes mad.He runs wild and then she runs wild because he wont come back.Ive had him over at ours for a sleepover to try train him even with his wee-wee problems but he was too wild towards Alex.He obviously wasnt used to other dogs,he is a pup and wasnt let out so its understandable but he was biting Alex's behind and we had none of it.Its not his fault,its the way he's being brought up but because his owner is family its difficult.I thought maybe I could take him onboard and give him a better start but I dont have the time,kids,work,housework and I wouldnt do anything to upset Alex.He's 14 mths and very settled with his routine I wouldnt have the time to care for a wild and mistreated dog.I do understand how you feel,but when its family or friends its difficult to say theyre in the wrong.I do believe that she shouldnt be a pet owner though,what do you do?

Daisy's Mom
24th October 2008, 10:52 PM
That is a tough one -- some people should just never have a dog. And I often wonder why in the world they want one when they clearly see them as a nuisance to be minimized in their lives? Weird.

But I agree that it is hard to just come out and tell them that they are doing everything wrong (even though they clearly are.) Maybe the next time she complains or yells at the poor thing in your presence, you could say something like "Well, any time, any day you want to get rid of her, I know a family who would dearly love to have her and would keep her in the house with them, take her on walks, and generally dote on her."

Or you could tell her that part of the reason her dog is being so "annoying" is that Cavaliers are strictly housedogs, and keeping one outside will inevitably lead to lots of issues like she is experiencing. That way, it is stated like it's just a poor fit between the breed and this family, rather than the real truth that the family are a lot of idiots.

Who knows? She might even take you up on your offer, and at a minimum, at least you've made some points about how dogs should be treated in the meantime, right?

My husband's brother has mentioned wanting a Cavalier and I know he kept his poor little chihuahua outside all the time and I just about had a heart attack when he mentioned a Cavalier. How in the world would I deal with it if he got a Cavalier puppy and kept the poor thing outside all the time, suffering from loneliness, weather, etc.? I couldn't start a family feud over it, but I wouldn't be able to sleep at night if I didn't say something. I pray he won't get one. Whenever I see him, I make sure that I talk about all the health problems in the breed, high vet bills, etc. to dissuade him! :(

People just hate being told what to do and will usually dig their heels in deeper if anyone tries, so it's a hard situation. Poor doggie. It's just so sad to know she's in that situation and so many other people would love her as she deserves to be loved.

Ejay
24th October 2008, 10:55 PM
Hi Katelyn,
I appreciate this is a difficult situation, but under no circumstances should you just take the dog as my lovely sister's friend did


Another friend of mine lived next door to someone who was mistreating their puppy and in the end she and her mother stole the puppy while it was tied up outside in the middle of the night and the mother took it home with her.:jump:


(SARAH, please don't encourage people to steal, it makes my job twice as hard!)

I had a similar situation this week, but with my neighbour's friend's dog. A scottie x westie, we asked if we could take the dog for rehoming, they soon realised that if not then the rspca would need to be contacted and we picked up meg last night. She was in a poor state, but will be groomed and seen by a vet before finding her forever home.

If you have a gut feeling that it is not right, then i think you need to follow it, but please do it through the correct means, either approach them and ask how they are managing, would they rather the dog be found a different home, or contact the rspca, either way i think something needs to be done for this little cav.

good luck

emily x x

Karlin
25th October 2008, 12:48 AM
Unfortunately this is the life an awful lot of dogs live day in and day out due to sadly ignorant owners. There would be no grounds to call the ISPCA -- in Ireland as in most countries, if the dog has shelter, food and water and is not being abused, there is nothing welfare agencies can do simply because they don't treat the dog decently.

If the dog pees inside it is ONLY due to their lack f adequate training -- and slapping the dog is only likely to make the problem worse by making the dog fear going in front of them but happy to go inside in hidden places. They need to be thinking more logically about what they are doing (and if they truly believe a dog is 'stupid' how is their training approach going to teach anything? :sl*p:).

All I can say is -- the next time the dog bolts out the door, if it happens to mysteriously disappear, PM me.

JessicaK
25th October 2008, 01:07 AM
:( This is a tricky situation indeed. It's awful that her Cav is being mistreated, yet as a neighbor you have limited influence. You have to hope that if she and her husband knew more about the breed they wouldn't treat their dog this way. Can you refer her to this board, or to a helpful Cavalier book that you have? Is there a trainer or training class in your community that you could mention as being really helpful to a friend of yours with a "problem" Cavalier?(Not that I believer there is such a thing!) Can you take their dog on walks with yours? Do they have a veterinarian that could advise them that Cavs are indoor dogs? Maybe you could suggest crate training (popular here in the States) as a way to keep the dog inside without having to worry about it being underfoot all the time.

You are right to be concerned. Let us know if you are able to make any progress with your neighbor. Good Luck.

Karlin
25th October 2008, 01:20 AM
To be honest, I don't think crating a dog all day is a better alternative than being out in the garden alone all day. Crating is a useful housetraining tool and very valuable for traveling and short term management :) but I strongly believe it is cruel to leave a dog in a small box for an 8 hour workday 5 days a week. People visiting a zoo would be outraged if animals the size of a cavalier -- a fox say -- was shut up in a crate-sized cage for the day with only enough room to turn around, yet this is increasingly done all day long to dogs for convenience :(. (I encourage people to allow the dog a room -- a gated off kitchen or a spare room, so that it can get up, and move about. I put my four in an upstairs bedroom). Of the two options, I think leaving the dog in a garden with a shed for shelter is a much kinder alternative than crating for a workday but I do not think being left alone in a garden is safe or caring either.

Don't get me wrong, I advise every dog owner to crate train and advise it for housetraining, occasional safe management and because it is so useful for travel :thmbsup: -- but crate *training* and daily crate *storage* of a dog are quite different.

JessicaK
25th October 2008, 01:42 AM
Sorry, I should have been more clear. The crate suggestion was not meant as an all day alternative, just as a way of getting a better handle on housetraining, and as a safe, warm place for the dog to sleep at night.

tara
25th October 2008, 05:18 AM
Okay, going out on a limb here and prepared to receive some criticism, BUT ... I am a firm believer that there are beings in this world who have no "voice." These beings are usually animals, children and sometimes the elderly. I believe it is our moral responsibility to step in on the vulnerable's behalf. My husband always cringes when we're out in public and we encounter someone being abusive to an animal or child -- he knows I'm going to step in and do or at least say something. Sure, probably most of the time it does no good, but if at least a very small percentage of the time an animal or child is "saved" from a bad situation, then I feel like I've made a difference. I am an attorney, so I am well aware that I have no legal grounds for interference, but there are other "laws" than those set by the state.

If I felt that a dog was being mistreated, neighbor or not, I would voice my concerns. At most, I would go so far as to say that I was extremely concerned and wished to step in on the dog's behalf. You are obviously a caring, concerned dog lover, so if you feel like raising the issue -- go for it! At the very least it will clear your conscience and may even plant a seed in your neighbors' heads and hearts.

Karlin
25th October 2008, 07:35 PM
The crate suggestion was not meant as an all day alternative, just as a way of getting a better handle on housetraining, and as a safe, warm place for the dog to sleep at night.

:thmbsup: Yes that would definitely be a good suggestion.

I'd start by maybe suggesting they contact a good trainer for some advice. They could definitely call Tara at Dog Training Ireland. The problem is they are expecting a dog to figure out what it is supposed t be doing yet not training it or giving it the time to learn -- if the dog lives outside all the time how will it ever learn housetraining?

I'd recommend they get The Good Little Dog Book by Dr Ian Dunbar and maybe Shirlee Kalstone's housetraining book.

Karlin
25th October 2008, 07:38 PM
The crate suggestion was not meant as an all day alternative, just as a way of getting a better handle on housetraining, and as a safe, warm place for the dog to sleep at night.

:thmbsup: Yes that would definitely be a good suggestion.

I'd start by maybe suggesting they contact a good trainer for some advice. They could definitely call Tara at Dog Training Ireland. The problem is they are expecting a dog to figure out what it is supposed t be doing yet not training it or giving it the time to learn -- if the dog lives outside all the time how will it ever learn housetraining?

I'd recommend they get The Good Little Dog Book by Dr Ian Dunbar and maybe Shirlee Kalstone's housetraining book.

But I know this type of owner pretty well -- they are unlikely to change or try anything. And one day that dog will get knocked down and die after it has bolted. Or they will suddenly decide it needs a new home immediately and will try to sell it, probably intact. These are often the source of puppy farm breeding dogs. :(

If the dog needs to go into rescue let me know. Maybe it will be found wandering someday and will end up in rescue and get a better life than it currently has. You'd think if they lost the dog once before they'd be far more attentive to properly training and managing their dog. It always saddens me when cavaliers end up in this type of home as it is a meagre, dull, neglected sort of life for a companion dog and indoor breed to live.

Katelyn
26th October 2008, 12:50 AM
Hi, I thought i'd update everyone helping me out..I was at the lady's house last night just having some tea and when the dog stood up to greet me she told her straight away to lie down and go to sleep and the dog looked so sad. Then I said to myself I have to do something! I kind of started a conversation about it but something happened that changed the subject so I decided to wait about half an hour and mention it agian. But then the lady went over to her dog and started cuddling her and said that she brings her into the kitchen every evening and when they sit down to watch tv at night the dog comes in with them. I ended up staying a bit later than usual and saw the dog hop up on the couch between the lady and her husband while they petted and praised her..in fect every few minutes the lady would give her a cuddle and tell her she was a good girl and the dog seemed very content. So of course I couldnt exactly bring it up then! So the horrible situation is now that it seems she has little time for the dog during the day but all the time in the world for her in the evening and night....and the dog totally adores the lady...:bang: :(

Karlin
26th October 2008, 01:09 AM
A dog will adore almost anyone that feeds and cares for it -- even abusive people. It is one of the wonderful things about dogs that they are so loyal and forgiving but also one of the sad things as some do not always deserve the affection they get for little input.

If the dog spends evenings inside and your primary concern is that it is living outside in daytime, I'd mention next time you are chatting about how serious a theft problem there is with cavaliers in Ireland -- last year several were taken by thieves in just two weeks in the runup to Christmas and they are regularly listed on lostandfound.ie as stolen from gardens; the guards have said they are one of the most targeted breeds in Ireland. They generally end up sold on for breeding into vile puppy farm conditions, are stolen to order and sold into the UK, or worst of all are sold and used as dogfight bait. I'd casually mention how certain elements will have no problem breaking into a garden to take the dogs even when someone is at home during the day and that it is important to have the dog neutered and get a tag that clearly states the dog is neutered and chipped with a reward for its return, as this is the single best guarantee a dog will make its way back if stolen for breeding. I'd just say you can see how much they love their dog and it would be so sad to have the dog taken... if they say the dog isn't housetrained well enough to stay in, suggest the Kalstone book and the Dunbar book.

To be honest the dog doesn't sound overly neglected, just as if it isn't in the best or safest situation during the day and the owners are pretty lazy about doing any training to transform her into the dog they seem to prefer. Housetraining just takes a bit of effort as does teaching a dog to enjoy being directed to its bed.

Lisa_T
26th October 2008, 02:14 AM
Cavaliers - or any living creature for that matter - used as bait for dog fights?!!! I'd no idea. That is beyond horrific.

cosmic81
26th October 2008, 09:21 AM
It is so wonderful that you actually know your neighbor! I think you are very brave to just walk in her house. Did you express your interest in the dogs' well being? Maybe you can use your experience with your cavalier to educate her?

Karlin
26th October 2008, 04:32 PM
They use cats too. :(

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/02/0218_040218_dogfighting.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/edinburgh_and_east/6928351.stm
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=613012&page=1


The prevailing mind set among dog fighters is that the more the dog suffers, the tougher he will become, and the better fighter he will be. The fighting dogs are not the only victims of heinous cruelty. Many of the training methods involve torturing and killing of other innocent animals. Often pets are stolen or otherwise obtained to be used as live bait in training exercises to improve the dogs’ endurance, strength, or fighting ability. If the bait animals are still alive after the training sessions, they are usually given to the dogs as a reward, and the dogs finish killing them.

From the Michigan State Univ. animal law page:
http://www.animallaw.info/articles/qvusdogfighting.htm

Katelyn
28th October 2008, 05:54 PM
oh my god! thats so awful! my granny had a cavalier stolen from her garden,she let him out the back then went to the shops and when she got back her house had been broken into and her beautiful dog was gone..she hadnt even been out that long!she was heartbroken especially since she rarely let the dog out of her sight she only let him out the back while she was gone coz it was lovely weather and he loved to lie out in the sun!:(