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AsOctoberFalls
7th November 2008, 03:37 AM
Hello!

My husband and I have an 8 month old Newfoundland and are looking at a CKCS as our next dog. I'm here to learn more about them to determine if they are the right dog for us and if we are the right home for them! So, I have a few questions.

1) My biggest concern is that my husband and I both work full-time. There is a good chance our shifts will change so that the pup would be crated from about 12:00 to 5:30 PM, but as it is right now, our Newf is crated from 8:00 until 5:30. When he was younger my sister in law would let him out at mid-day. We also take him to doggy daycare 1x per week. He goes to the dog park at night and on weekends, so he gets plenty of exercise. Anyway, I've seen it said that Cavaliers are not good dogs for people who work full-time. Have you found this to be the case? Would it make a difference if the pup was crated in the same room as our Newf?

2) Do most Cavaliers get along with large dogs? We would wait until our Burgess was a bit calmer before adding a smaller dog to our family. At 8 months, he is very much a puppy! We plan to get another dog when he is around 2 years old, which is why I'm starting the research now.

3) Are Cavaliers very energetic? I like our Newf's energy level - he loves to play, but he's calm in the house.

4) We do not have a fenced-in yard. Is this a deal-breaker for most breeders? We take Burgess out on a leash to potty, and we exercise him mostly by taking him to the dog park.

I'm sure I'll come up with MANY more questions as I learn more! :)

*Pauline*
7th November 2008, 10:43 AM
Hello, love the picture of your NF. I'll be brief so hope it doesn't come across as blunt but 5 1/2 hours will be too long for a puppy, in my opinion, it's very long for a grown up dog too. If you can get someone to come in the middle that would be better. An ex pen would be better too, much more space.

A fenced yard would be a factor to most good breeders. It would be nice if you had two dogs if they could run around in a fenced yard, especially if they are crated or ex penned for a long time during the day.

I agree, it's good to wait till your dog is a bit older as you said. A big dog can really hurt a small pup if they roll over them, I've seen it happen at the park.

Some Cavaliers are energetic, some are quiet, they are all different but a good breeder will help you choose a pup to suit you.

qwickkertje
7th November 2008, 02:53 PM
I disagree with most here about the dogs being "crated" when people go to work.. We have 3 CKCS and we both work fulltime.. Our dogs are used to this (started when they were puppies) and even Qnotje's breeder said it's just how they are used to it..
Our dogs are outside (when the weather is nice, so no rain or cold) in their playground or inside behind their babygate when we're out to work which is mostly from 7:30am until 4:15pm.. When Qnotje was younger I came home during lunch to make her go potty as long as she couldn't go outside with the other 2.. Now none of them has any problems with us going to work.. We never made a fuss out of it either, but I must say they are always with the 3 of them together.. And they are not put into a small crate either (only Qnotje when she was too small and then only for a few hours), they have space both inside and outside..

As for the fenced yard, we have one and I wouldn't want it otherwise.. This gives them space to play and run around.. During summer they could run and run and run until we went to sleep, now it's a bit less, but still when we're home and not being busy with them, we usually let them play in our yard.. Especially Qnotje and Qwebble enjoy that VERY much!

So my opinion.. Both working fulltime is no problem as long as you make them used to it but a fenced yard is defintely a plus :)

Hopefully this helps and good luck on your search!

Ponyprincess
7th November 2008, 04:11 PM
my husband and I have to work full time as well. Anastasia has been crate trained since we got her at 10 weeks and does great:) she is a happy and well adjusted. we make sure we take her on long walks when we get home, and spend extra time with her on weekends. sometimes she'll go to my mom's house for a day or two during the week as well to give her a little break. I think after your Newfie is out of the puppy stage he'll do great with a cav. My cav LOVES big dogs as long as they aren't going to be overly rough. Newfie's become such gentle giants though I'm sure they'll be great!

chloe92us
7th November 2008, 04:28 PM
Okay, I am from the opposite side of the opinion scale for this one; IMHO it is not fair for a Cavalier (or most breeds, for that matter) to be alone for 8 hours a day every day. Cavaliers, especially, are such people dogs that I can't imagine leaving mine for that long every day. As we've heard, some will do just fine, but I think it lessens their quality of life. They are bred to be COMPANIONS. Think of it this way; most Cavalier rescue groups will not rehome a Cavalier to a family unless there is someone home a good majority of the day.

Just MY opinion though! ;)

daveoirl
7th November 2008, 04:44 PM
Myself and my fiancee both work full time. However my fiancee works a 5 minute cycle from our home and she goes home to Amie during her lunch to let her out the garden etc. We don't crate Amie when we are out at work, she has the run of the dining room and sitting room and has all her toys etc there. She does no damage at all, and is so good.

I wouldn't like to crate here during work hours, as she loves running around the sitting room, sleeping on the couch and hopping up in the window sill to look outside.
When she was a puppy though, we both took time off work to make sure she settled into the house for the first couple of weeks.

So I would say if you are getting a young puppy you should at least try and take time off work to help him/her settle into the new home. I would also try and have someone at least visit her during the day and I would be wary of keeping the two dogs together initially until they are both used to eachother and the Cav is a little bigger. A big dog like a NewFoundland could accidently hurt a small dog like a cav during play.

In fact, I would even suggest maybe thinking of a slightly bigger dog than a Cav. If the Newfoundland was an older dog that didn't really play around then I would say it is fine, but two young dogs at such differing size could end in tears.

Just weigh up everything. :)

pinkpuppy
7th November 2008, 04:49 PM
We have a rescue pup. I have been working with a very knowledgeable rescue technician. She taught me the ground rules for working with our little guy to so he would not be anxious or clingy. With her guidance we were able to leave him home for short periods of time gradually increasing to several hours. This was only if I had to work seasonally, but my dh also has a very flexible job and he loves the pup to pieces. He makes a special effort to come home several times a day to take him out to potty and let him romp around a bit. I thought he was going to be a nice quiet little couch potato. Surprisingly he is just as energetic as with his buddies next door. He plays with a Malamute and a Labrador. Our pup is more incline to large dogs than small dogs. Only small dog mine gets along with a is another Cavalier preferably a girl dog. He gets ga ga eyed when it's a girl! I was also under the impression the breed was very quiet and not inclined to be a watch dog. Well, "boomer" here has a large bark not unlike his buddies next door. He will bark and circle the perimeter telling everyone to back off his property. He does not like the UPS or FedEx delivery guys either. :eek: Good luck with your research they are perfect little snuggle bugs and love being velcro to their two legged human companions.

AT
7th November 2008, 05:00 PM
I was also under the impression the breed was very quiet and not inclined to be a watch dog. Well, "boomer" here has a large bark not unlike his buddies next door. He will bark and circle the perimeter telling everyone to back off his property..


My cavalier ezme is certainly not quiet. we've just been down the beach & she yapped non stop. She barks at & attacks the tv & barks non stop in the garden too.
& this is the " improved " ezme. She was worse when I got her.
If you want a quite cav you really need to see the breeders dogs & how they behave

Regarding the newfoundland , we have had Bullmastiffs with cavaliers , the only problem was she sometimes tried to sit on the little dogs & because of their size difference they should never ever be left unsupervised

WoodHaven
7th November 2008, 05:04 PM
I disagree with most here about the dogs being "crated" when people go to work.. We have 3 CKCS and we both work fulltime.. Our dogs are used to this (started when they were puppies) and even Qnotje's breeder said it's just how they are used to it..
Our dogs are outside (when the weather is nice, so no rain or cold) in their playground or inside behind their babygate when we're out to work which is mostly from 7:30am until 4:15pm.. When Qnotje was younger I came home during lunch to make her go potty as long as she couldn't go outside with the other 2.. Now none of them has any problems with us going to work.. We never made a fuss out of it either, but I must say they are always with the 3 of them together.. And they are not put into a small crate either (only Qnotje when she was too small and then only for a few hours), they have space both inside and outside..

As for the fenced yard, we have one and I wouldn't want it otherwise.. This gives them space to play and run around.. During summer they could run and run and run until we went to sleep, now it's a bit less, but still when we're home and not being busy with them, we usually let them play in our yard.. Especially Qnotje and Qwebble enjoy that VERY much!

So my opinion.. Both working fulltime is no problem as long as you make them used to it but a fenced yard is defintely a plus :)

Hopefully this helps and good luck on your search!

The way I see it--- much of what we can do with our dogs has to do with their safety--- Where I live I could NEVER leave them outside unattended. We have coyotes, wolves, eagles, hawks and people who would steal them. Six months ago they shot a cougar 35 miles south of my home. While we are gone, I have some dogs that are running around the house and I have some that MUST be kenneled for their safety and my sanity.

LovesCavaliers
7th November 2008, 06:07 PM
Please read Karlin's thread "Considering a Cavalier".

Why not wait until you are able to spend more time with one of these wonderful companion dogs? I think it would be better, if you want your other dog to have company, to choose another breed.

Reading the other posts it shows that some cavaliers can adapt to being left at home, but it really isn't the ideal. They thrive on human companionship - and this is when they are at their happiest.

You are the best company for your cavalier - they miss you when you're not there. To be fair, these dogs deserve what they were bred for, and that is to stay close to their humans. I would give the same advice to anyone in my family that was in this situation.

I've recently lost a 12 year old cavalier, but have my golden oldie 12.5 and a 5 month old puppy. I'm lucky, because I work from home.

When I look back over the past 12 years I can honestly say that Bailey had a wonderful life. You need to be able to do that to come to terms with losing a dog. So I hope this helps and that you come to the right decision for your family.

Good Luck
Mary

murphy's mum
7th November 2008, 07:01 PM
My O/H and I both work full-time. He gets left at 8.30am, and someone will come home at lunch, and then we're back at 5pm.

However, we have never crated Murphy, it just wasn't something we felt comfortable with. In my opinion with the hours we work being crated would be too long:( He was left as a puppy in our Utility, which is 2m x 2.5m, when he was a little more trustworthy, he got the run of the kitchen. When he was 1.5 years, he got the run of the house all day. I just think no dog should be crated for more than 4 hours, but thats just my opinion.

We walk Murphy, morning, evening and night, round the streets when its dark, but weekends and summer we are always away long walks 'off road' with him:). We have a good playtime at night too, normally when theres something good on the box:rolleyes:

We would like another Cavalier now he is 2.5 years, and settled, it will be good company for Murphy too. I do sometimes feel bad that he is left when we work and wonder if we are selfish for having him, but couldn't imagine life without him:luv:

AsOctoberFalls
8th November 2008, 03:56 AM
Thank you so much for your thoughts, everyone! I appreciate your candid responses.

I doubt we will ever be home with the dog all the time. I guess the main consideration is if a Cavalier, which was bred as a companion, would be happy living like this. I think it would, as my husband and I really don't go out on weeknights because we want to spend as much time as possible with our pup. I'd LOVE to take a dog to work, or to work from home, or to not work at all... but that's not realistic for us.

I definitely would supervise all interactions between the two dogs. My Burgess LOVES other dogs, but I wouldn't be getting another as a companion for him - it would be as a companion for myself and my husband. I would keep them crated (in separate crates) in the same room, however, so they could keep each other company. I don't trust a dog uncrated - too much that he could get into. It's mostly a safety concern for me.

I will continue to lurk and learn as much as I can!

chloe92us
8th November 2008, 04:58 PM
I just have to speak up again...if you are open to breeds at this point, there are plenty of breeds that are more independent than Cavaliers. A dog will *tolerate* almost anything, even abuse; it does not mean the dog is happy (being left alone all day). Please look at other breeds...being separated from their people is the absolute WORST thing in the mind of a Cavalier.

AsOctoberFalls
9th November 2008, 04:47 AM
I am open to breeds. If it were up to me, we'd have 1000 Newfies. But my husband really, really loves Cavaliers.

If this is the case... if Cavaliers are really unhappy if their parents work full-time... do most people who have Cavaliers not work?

This may not be an issue, as my husband's shift at his work may be changing. If that is the case, the Cavalier would not be alone often. We really strive to leave Burgess alone as little as humanly possible, as we know he's happier when we are there.

LovesCavaliers
9th November 2008, 01:11 PM
Will this help you to make a decision? The ideal life for any dog is to be free as much as possible and not stuck in a crate.

Cavaliers are not destructive and if trained properly will chew their toys and not your furniture. I appreciate the safety concern for a dog, but you can make things safe - we childproof things for our children.

Consider the very nature of a cavalier. What kind of a dog's life would it be for him to be caged all day long? Yes, the dog would tolerate it, but what choice would he have?

Please consider your situation very carefully. Of course I can see that you are dog lovers, but it shouldn't be just about what you want.

I know if I were to "come back as a dog" I certainly wouldn't choose a prospective life in a crate all day long waiting for my human family to come back. If I were a dog I wouldn't get a choice would I?

I hope you take my message in the spirit it is intended and that is that I adore this breed and it really saddens me to think of a cavalier alone.:(

Very kind regards
Mary

shippers
9th November 2008, 02:09 PM
We both work full time but I work shifts earlies, lates and nights sometimes weekends and sometimes not. My OH works 9-5 Mon-Fri. My shifts mean that they overlap with OH's and Sally isn't left alone for long periods. My shifts are different from one week to the next so there is no specific routine to get bored with. The worst shift is the early 07:00 - 14:30 but this may be only twice a week. Sally gets plenty of exercise and cuddles in between. She loves it when I'm on nights as she can cuddle up in the day with me :lotsaluv:

petcrazyme
9th November 2008, 03:32 PM
If this is the case... if Cavaliers are really unhappy if their parents work full-time... do most people who have Cavaliers not work?


I believe that most members of this forum do work and that many do work full-time. In fact, let's put out a poll to see.

In this day of age, a typical household would have not just one but two people working (out of the house) unless they are retired.

I think it is true that a Cavalier is most happy to be with its owners full-time. But this is not at all reflective of whats really going on out there. I don't believe that most Cavalier owners are unemployed (this is an expensive breed), work out of the home or are retired.

I don't think a cavalier that is confined to a safe area of the house (crate available), has a buddy (another dog or a cat) and someone to walk them once to break up the day is an unhappy cavalier. There is no reason why this shouldn't work in my mind.

Rj Mac
9th November 2008, 04:50 PM
Okay, I am from the opposite side of the opinion scale for this one; IMHO it is not fair for a Cavalier (or most breeds, for that matter) to be alone for 8 hours a day every day. Cavaliers, especially, are such people dogs that I can't imagine leaving mine for that long every day. As we've heard, some will do just fine, but I think it lessens their quality of life. They are bred to be COMPANIONS. Think of it this way; most Cavalier rescue groups will not rehome a Cavalier to a family unless there is someone home a good majority of the day.


I'm sorry to disagree here, but if only people who were home all the time had dogs, then there would be a lot less pet homes available, Both Lisa and I work, allthough Lisa is only part time, but it does not mean our dogs have any poorer a quality of life than someone who is at home all the time,

Alot of us need 2 incomes in this day in age, and as I see it, as long as you are sensible about the time your dogs are home alone, it does no harm, especially when there is other doggie company for them to enjoy,

What I would recomend tho, is that someone is on hand when a new dog comes into the home, When Lucy, and Megan came home Lisa and I took our summer holls, to ensure we were there during the settling in period,

AsOctoberFalls
9th November 2008, 07:04 PM
Yeah, someone would certainly take some time off when a new pup comes home. And as I said, I expect my husband's shift to be changing within the next year or so...certainly before we would acquire a new puppy.

I appreciate all the opinions here... as I'm not terribly familiar with Cavaliers as a whole, it helps to hear from people who are. I'm certainly not opposed to an ex-pen or something of the sort so that the pup has an area that's larger than just a crate. That would not work for Burgess, as he could easily escape from one because he is so large. We crate him for his own safety - although he has a multitude of toys that are always being rotated so he doesn't get bored, he STILL will chew on anything he can find. The other day we had a scare because we thought he'd swallowed the battery from my husband's cell phone. (It turns out he had chewed on it, but not swallowed it). We are very careful - we've puppy-proofed our house and we keep Burgess confined to the rooms we are in. We also make sure he gets plenty of exercise and mental stimulation. But he still would get himself in trouble if he were not crated in a safe area.

Keep the comments coming, folks! I plan to show this thread to my husband as well. We want to make a choice that's fair to any future dogs we may have.

chloe92us
10th November 2008, 02:23 AM
I do realize that many people work, and I do too...although I'm blessed to own my own business and make my own rules, and my dogs come to work with me every day. That being said, it breaks my heart to think of any Cavalier sitting at home 8 hours a day waiting for their peeps to come home.

I'm not saying it is not done, but in an ideal world, they would be with people all day. And my other MAIN point is; there are many other breeds that are more independent that would tolerate that length of time away from people better than a Cavalier.

I'm not trying to bully those of you who do work and have Cavaliers...she posted wanting information about the breed...and it sounded like they were exploring several different breeds. The reality is Cavaliers are people dogs.

HollyDolly
10th November 2008, 02:48 AM
As a breeder many years ago, I would not allow anyone to purchase my puppies who were out at work all day. There is little point in owning a dog when someone is not there for some of the day. I am sorry if this sounds blunt but get a budgie instead.

tara
10th November 2008, 03:49 AM
As October Falls -- because it seems as though you're seeking opinions on our cavaliers' natures, I'll chime in here at the risk of offending others. I do realize that life throws us many different situations and that we all love our cavs and are trying to give them the best lives possible. But ... I'm a stay at home mom with two young children and our lifestyle now is THE MAIN reason I chose a cavalier for our first dog. I did a lot of research on different breeds. I wanted a smaller dog who (with very strict and contstant supervision) could like living with children, was an inside dog, and who would enjoy being around human family members almost 100% of the time.

Holly is a perfect fit for our family. She doesn't just like being around us, she NEEDS to be with us. She doesn't just tolerate my children, she LOVES them and probably considers herself my third child. If we're outside playing, she's playing with us or close by. When we come inside, she does as well. She's actually been extremely easy to train as I've taken advantage of her highly social nature. She's a breeeze to supervise because she either follows me from room to room or she doesn't object when I bring her with me wherever I go. I have little "Holly" stations set up throughout the house so that she can be entertained and supervised as we go about our day (yes, she even accompanies me to the toilet:o). And she also enjoys going on outings with us whenever possible.

Perhaps she would have adjusted to being alone during a large part of the day, but from the first day she was here she demonstrated a NEED to be with her people. It's very different than any other pet I've had -- granted they have all been cats and one german shepherd we had when growing up. My parents have commented on what a constant "presence" Holly is and that they've never seen another dog with a temperment quite like it. And my breeder also will not place cavaliers in homes where someone is not available during the day.

LovesCavaliers
10th November 2008, 12:14 PM
This is what life should be like for a Cavalier. They adore children and this is one of the reasons I chose cavaliers.

Holly has a charmed life and cavaliers deserve this.:) It does gladden my heart to hear about these lovely routines that they share with us.

Surely any good breeder wouldn't wish to see her puppies go to a home where they wouldn't have human company during the day.

LizzieM
10th November 2008, 06:38 PM
Dogs generally adapt to the situation they are in. If you are around all the time, they will want to be around you. Our dog trainer, who also breeds cavaliers incidently, doesn't advocate people allowing their dogs to be too clingy - they need to learn independence so that they don't flake out, even if you are out of their sight for 5 minutes. I would love to be at home all day with my dog, or even take her to work, but i am not in the position to do that. Instead we have other arrangements. But Daisy copes just fine with it, and is still a happy dog.

Rj Mac
10th November 2008, 08:29 PM
I think the crux of the matter for any family is to find a routine that works for you and your dogs, as I said Lisa and I both work, allthough Lisa's only part time, therefor 2 or 3 days a week depending on work, our dogs are home for 3 - 4 hours, and if it's any longer my parents doggie sit, and this works for us, our dogs are happy and healthy, because it's what they are used to......it is their routine,

LovesCavaliers
10th November 2008, 08:36 PM
It is true that if you are at home all day a cavalier will want to follow you around.

It's important that he/she is not allowed to do this all the time otherwise the seeds will be sown for separation anxiety problems.

We should all help our pets to feel independent by giving each other space and time apart during the day if you do happen to be around all the time.