Food stealing

I am having a really difficult time breaking our 2 year old blenheim Lucy of a bad habit. Anytime there is unsupervised food on the table she will try to sneak her way up there and steal it. I have been working diligently with clicker training and she totally gets that she is supposed to lay on her mat while we are eating and she will generally stay there throughout the entire meal now even w/o any food reward. The problem begins when we start to clear away the dishes or anytime there is food on the table and we step into the kitchen for a minute. Then she will leave her mat jump on a chair up to the table and steal the food. She has even learned to wiggle her muzzle in between the chair and the table so that she can push out a chair that is pushed in and get up there. (Smart...naughty puppy...lol). As soon as I catch her at it she immediately jumps down and looks sorry...but that certainly doesn't stop her from doing it again..lol.

We are getting another Cav (puppy) and I want to break her of this habit now so she doesn't teach it to the new dog, not to mention the fact that it is bad doggy manners. What am I doing wrong? Should I train her to stay in her crate instead while we eat? I am not totally opposed to doing that, however I would like her to have good manners when she is around food without her having to be confined, such as when we go to someone elses house etc.. Maybe I am expecting too much. Any tips would be appreciated.

Aimee
Mom to Lucy (blenheim) and soon to be mom to Charlie Brown (ruby puppy)

oh boy, if you get that one figured out, let me know. Bandit just out of the blue figured out how to do that one day about 2 weeks ago. We have NEVER fed him from the table, but now that he knows how to do it, it is really becoming a problem. If I am moving between the stove and the table placing the food out, he will jump up there and help himself. He almost got grapes the other day, so it could be a health hazard as well as a manners problem.

Our Golden was an epic food thief - sometimes when you were sitting at the table like lightning the food would disappear. He knew he would be crated but seemed to think it was worth it. I was feeling rather smug with Max as he seems in some ways to be the reincarnation of Zeus but he's too short to reach the counter or the table. I guess I'd better be vigilant to make sure he never figures out how to get up on chairs.

Mindy is a princess and a lady. Stealing food would never occur to her lol! Max is a different dog lol. I can totally see him doing it given the opportunity.

How about taking her out the room and food times.

Hi Aimee,

Great to hear you are doing clicker training. Have you done any "Leave it, take it" with Lucy.

I have taught Murphy to only take food when I say "Good, Take it". If I offer food silently, he won't take it until he has permission. When you start the exercise give the treat five times by saying "Good", (you can click as well) and then say "Take it".

After this offer the treat silently. If Lucy tries to take the treat cover it with your thumb. When Lucy backs off say "Good" Use the clicker "Take it". You will soon see that she will leave the food alone until you give her permission.

Then when she gets the idea that food should only be taken when you have said so, she should leave the food alone on the table when you tell her to "Leave it".

Try this and see if it works, it can't do any harm. If dogs are not taught to leave food alone, they will be tempted by mini-feasts left on the table.

I would always reward good behaviour if she leaves the food alone when asked. Set her up for success - ask her to "leave" the food that you have on the table, after you have done the "Leave it, take it" training exercise at least 5 times during the day. Keep the training sessions short (5 mins) and varied with behaviours that are familiar to her to start with.

Build on her success - she will soon see that she will get something tasty and please you at the same time for not jumping up on the table. You may find you can go and do the washing up eventually and she won't take any food that she shouldn't.

Do let us know how you get on.

Mary

Mary

Well after my advice,we were suddenly missing a cav,and guess what we found him on Ellas bed helping himself to her Jellybabies,we think he only managed a few.Cheeky monkey.Wondered why it had gone quiet.

Whenever things get quiet with cavs there's usually some mischief afoot.

Bailey was an artful dodger. He managed to take ham from a sandwich while not moving the bread from the plate.

When OH started eating it he asked me where his ham was. We were totally perplexed - and then it dawned on us that Bailey must have had it.

As years went on Dan would always alert us if Bailey was on a raid. Whether Dan was being like a Garda/Police and barking to stop him or whether he didn't think he was getting a fair share of the goodies I don't know, but you know the way dogs have different barks for certain things, well Dan had a bark that alerted me to Bailey snaffling.

I must tell you this .... one Easter there was a big chocolate egg on the table. I was in another room and I could hear this tap tap tapping noise. I didn't take any notice at first and then I went to investigate.

There was Bailey tapping the oilcloth and the Easter egg was rolling nearer and nearer the edge. I watched in fascination with Dan for a moment - as the egg inched closer to the edge with each paw tap. He was a clever dog. He very nearly had it and I know dogs shouldn't eat chocolate.

M

Expecting a dog not to be an opportunist when food is involved is a pretty major request... and the single best way to solve unwanted behaviour is to prevent it happening in the first place. I'd crate her when you are not there to supervise -- you are unlikely without long term, concentrated training for a permanent, unsupervised downstay, to get a dog to ignore food lying out on a table (also: how is she getting up? On the chairs? Why not simply push in the chairs...?). Just training to lie on a mat is not enough -- that is just the start. She and you would need to put in hours more , daily, every week, to get an unsupervised downstay (and even then, watch an obedience show and there are always dogs that will break a downstay! Also I would not risk her getting something dangerous like cooked bones or grapes on the table, for the sake of trying to approach this as a training exercise).

If you are getting a second dog the likelihood is about 99% that you will then have two dogs doing this. If you don't want this to happen, I'd recommend using a crate for mealtimes. Or put the dogs in a dog room on their own during meals. Two dogs almost always means new challenges with dogs egging each other on. Rarely do dogs learn good behaviour from another -- more often they both start doing what you don't want. So aim to prevent the behaviour, starting now, rather than expect a dog to do something as difficult as an unsupervised downstay when food is left accessible on the table.

Karlin said:

Expecting a dog not to be an opportunist when food is involved is a pretty major request... and the single best way to solve unwanted behaviour is to prevent it happening in the first place. I'd crate her when you are not there to supervise -- you are unlikely without long term, concentrated training for a permanent, unsupervised downstay, to get a dog to ignore food lying out on a table (also: how is she getting up? On the chairs? Why not simply push in the chairs...?). Just training to lie on a mat is not enough -- that is just the start. She and you would need to put in hours more , daily, every week, to get an unsupervised downstay (and even then, watch an obedience show and there are always dogs that will break a downstay! Also I would not risk her getting something dangerous like cooked bones or grapes on the table, for the sake of trying to approach this as a training exercise).

If you are getting a second dog the likelihood is about 99% that you will then have two dogs doing this. If you don't want this to happen, I'd recommend using a crate for mealtimes. Or put the dogs in a dog room on their own during meals. Two dogs almost always means new challenges with dogs egging each other on. Rarely do dogs learn good behaviour from another -- more often they both start doing what you don't want. So aim to prevent the behaviour, starting now, rather than expect a dog to do something as difficult as an unsupervised downstay when food is left accessible on the table.

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Karlin,
I think you missed the part where I mentioned that Lucy has learned how to wiggle her muzzle between the chair and the table and actually push the chairs out so she can get up there. She's super smart. Anyway, I guess I will have no choice but to crate her while we eat for now.

Just for the record this is not the beginning of obedience training with her. She graduated from puppy obedience and level 1 adult dog training and I work with her at home all the time. She doesn't eat her own food w/o waiting for me to say okay. She knows the take it/leave it game and will pass up a treat if I tell her too. We are working on the down/stay for longer periods of time and she is improving. It's just w/ food on the table that we seem to have this problem. In a perfect world I would keep all unsupervised food from the table when Lucy is around, but I have two elementary school aged boys and they are less than perfect when it comes to this. I am working on training them too.

The breeder (who I have stayed in close contact with) says she never has had a Cav quite like Lucy before She definitely has a mind of her own. The good news is the puppy is super mellow...so let's hope he has a good influence on Lucy....(yeah right). Oh well....we'll muddle through somehow.

Aimee

LovesCavaliers said:

Hi Aimee,

Great to hear you are doing clicker training. Have you done any "Leave it, take it" with Lucy.

I have taught Murphy to only take food when I say "Good, Take it". If I offer food silently, he won't take it until he has permission. When you start the exercise give the treat five times by saying "Good", (you can click as well) and then say "Take it".

After this offer the treat silently. If Lucy tries to take the treat cover it with your thumb. When Lucy backs off say "Good" Use the clicker "Take it". You will soon see that she will leave the food alone until you give her permission.

Then when she gets the idea that food should only be taken when you have said so, she should leave the food alone on the table when you tell her to "Leave it".

Try this and see if it works, it can't do any harm. If dogs are not taught to leave food alone, they will be tempted by mini-feasts left on the table.

I would always reward good behaviour if she leaves the food alone when asked. Set her up for success - ask her to "leave" the food that you have on the table, after you have done the "Leave it, take it" training exercise at least 5 times during the day. Keep the training sessions short (5 mins) and varied with behaviours that are familiar to her to start with.

Build on her success - she will soon see that she will get something tasty and please you at the same time for not jumping up on the table. You may find you can go and do the washing up eventually and she won't take any food that she shouldn't.

Do let us know how you get on.

Mary

Mary

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Mary,
Thanks for the advice. She does the take it/leave it game quite well and she is so incredibly obedient when we are doing any thing obedience related (if that makes sense). But as soon as my back is turned and we are not doing training...she gets up to mischief. I think she just might be smarter than me...lol.

I will keep working with her though and if I have to I will crate her while we eat until we get this under control.

I will post updates about how things are going.
Aimee

As Karlin says, it is a major request and would need a lot of training. Of course, we wouldn't want to risk our pets' eating something harmful to them.

We can only ever train our dogs to 90 per cent certainty anyway with desired behaviour and this involves great dedication from trainer.

There is always some risk with the most well trained dog that he/she could get distracted by something and take us by surprise. So we always have to think ahead and keep them safe.

As the great man himself Oscar Wilde said "I can resist anything but temptation".

The marvel of cavaliers is that they are all so different. Bailey my Tri, sorely missed, was a total rascal. I always had to watch him very carefully to make sure he wouldn't escape on the night that people put their black bin liners out for the refuse men to collect. He used to watch OH taking the bins out and was itching to go on a raid.

Dan, same age, wasn't interested in bins at all. He is totally golden and in his 13th year is a good influence on Murphy. However, if Bailey was still alive and up to his tricks - Murphy would be up to mischief as well I'm sure.

I've got a very funny story to tell about Dan and Bailey, but this is all for now.

Mary

I know Cav's can have very temperamental stomachs, but try placing food on the table that they will NOT like. For my bigger dogs (2 female black labs, mother and daughter) I have put jalapenos on there covered in Peanut butter and they could not get the hot jalapeno out of their mouth because the peanut butter made it stick.

Some people might think this is cruel, but only took 2x for the girls to learn not to eat food off the counters.

I have put jalapenos on there covered in Peanut butter and they could not get the hot jalapeno out of their mouth because the peanut butter made it stick.

Some people might think this is cruel, but only took 2x for the girls to learn not to eat food off the counters.

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OMG, that is so cruel and horrible, and may cause vomiting and/or diaahorea, or an upset stomach/ulcer in a little cavalier king charles

I agree with the crate, Harley used to back consistantly during meals, asking for some food, in the end i would put him in his crate before i dished up and let him out when i was washing up, he also was good at tipping up the bin, and consuming the contents, so now no meat or fish or cheese (hmm what else does he like) goes in the bin but straight into the dustbin in the garage instead, his nickname was osama binraider - they are very smart and we have to be smarter even if it is hardwork. di

amanda L said:

OMG, that is so cruel and horrible, and may cause vomiting and/or diaahorea, or an upset stomach/ulcer in a little cavalier king charles

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I'm sorry you feel that way amanda, but like i said i have done this for my bigger dogs, ie BLACK LABS, and it has worked wonders. Well thats until we found out that our youngest black lab loves to eat jalapenos. but i did warn that maybe it might be a bit much for them.

Spicy dog!!
I accidently did the same thing once. Ilsa loves sushi (and salmon is good for her) but once, when I wasn't looking, she helped herself to a piece that I'd already put wasabi on! Poor thing drank so much water! I felt terrible but the upside is she only eats pieces I give her now.

I wouldn't do that intentionally, though could you try something like bitter apple or something else they don't like on the food you leave. (or even bitter apple on a napkin on the table. Could work.

Jen and Ilsa

I've also found that the spicy foods help with begging. I offer her a spicy bite, she smells it, decides she doesn't want it and wanders away. If she tries to eat in anyway I pull a switch to an edible bite. Works like a charm. Of course, if your dog eats everything offered I wouldn't try it.

Jen and Ilsa

I like the idea of bitter apple. Max would be a food thief if he could reach it. He thinks he's being starved to death (he's not). He does try and jump up on the counter when there is food out (I am reminded of when my Retriever was a pup and could actually steal the food) so I'm grateful that I only have to teach him "off". I also like the idea of offering less tasty treats when they beg. My two turn up their nose at raw carrot so I'll remember that.

Well this post is still going on.Thats good,as the other morning Archie deciced to help him self to Ellas marmite on toast.You all were talking about hot and spicy deterants,well he rather liked the marmite.I had forgotten he is a ,HELP YOURSELF kind of guy,i i also forgott to keep him out of a room when food is around.Going back to spicy food,my old lab would eat anything,appart from lemons.Mmmm food for thought.

I have put jalapenos on there covered in Peanut butter and they could not get the hot jalapeno out of their mouth because the peanut butter made it stick.

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Personally I prefer to teach my dogs not to steal food by reinforcing their self control, teaching leave it and take it and letting them know when they get it right.

The peanut butter and jalapenos works because it is a form of + punishment and aversive. And we know that + punishment works.

I guess one has to decide what kind of training they wish to do with their dog remembering that it will ultimatly affect the bond and relationship with their dog.