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linderbelle
15th February 2009, 03:17 PM
Margaret C in one of her posts made a suggestion. Here in the states CKCS's are VERY expensive for even pet quality. It is nothing to pay about $2,000. Now I was in Europe in Sept-October and I know how expensive it is over there--of course the American dollar isn't worth dodo right now either. But $2,000 in euros is approximately 1500 euros or approximately 1400 pounds. I love this breed alot--kind of obvious since I have 3 of them. I've learned alot in the last month. Also, I have one I'm going through sm right now. I have a question to breeders in Europe though:

Would you sell a dog to me in the United States without seeing me etc. and ship it over to me?

No I do NOT want to do this now--lol. Just thinking about the future and when the time comes what I will do and of course all of us trying to get a healthy dog--at least get one where the breeder has done his/her best doing all the tests etc.

linderbelle
15th February 2009, 03:19 PM
Heck not just Europe but breeders anywhere in the world would you ship a puppy to a person overseas or across the country (US) to a person you had never seen?

Karlin
15th February 2009, 03:46 PM
I can answer that -- in general, knowing several of the people who would be responsibly breeding -- not unless you go over to meet them, they can get some sort of personal recommendation from people whose judgment they trust, or most likely, a combination. Likewise I would not ship a rescue dog to anyone in the US unless I knew them or knew someone who knew them. The type of people who would willingly ship with no knowledge of the person are not the type of people or dogs you'd wish to buy.

I can also tell you that by the time you pay for transport costs etc the cost will be similar. If you ship a dog without you personally accompanying it the dog may well cost more. If you fly with the dog you have to add in a round trip ticket to Europe plus lodging plus shipment costs.

Also I believe it is important to support breeders making the health choices you desire in one's own country, and also, a breeder abroad is going to be of little practical support when you have questions or need help or advice.

linderbelle
15th February 2009, 03:53 PM
not just about money though. Actually that would be second on my list. Look at the list on:

http://www.thecavalierclub.co.uk/start.html

the mri list. Compare US to UK. Pretty sad. Whats the chance of us people trying to get a pet cavalier from a breeder that has done all the tests including the expensive MRI. Not very easy. I truly hope that this does change and like brotymo said there will always be more consumers just getting a pet and not worried about the mri's etc. Heck I just did it a few months ago. I knew nothing of this sm deal.

Cathy Moon
15th February 2009, 04:55 PM
I'm sorry, but I think you're missing the point that was stated on another thread in this forum. That MRI list doesn't tell you anything. You don't know the age of the dog when MRI'd, you don't know the results/mri report, and they don't even have to show a certificate that the dog was actually mri'd to have the names added to the list.

Also, I know cavalier breeders who MRI their dogs in the US, and their names don't appear on the UK club's list. Why should they? I'm sure at least some breeders realize it doesn't include enough information to be meaningful.

Karlin
15th February 2009, 05:04 PM
There are a number of breeders MRIing in the US. As Cathy notes, the MRI list only indicates someone did an MRI -- not the age, the result, the current status, or whether the breeder uses that information to try and reduce incidence. Few US breeders send results to the UK for the general list. There are some attempts to try and get a club health list in the US but so far not much is there on MRIs. Some breeders are indicating the MRI status of their dogs on their own websites though. Simply MRIing isn't enough -- as with MVD and testing, you need the results, the overall context of the breeding programme, the general philosophy of the breeder -- all the things that still boil down to making calls, talking to breeders, asking for certs, etc. :thmbsup:

brotymo
15th February 2009, 05:09 PM
There is a breeder in Lineville, Alabama who has imported dogs whose parents have been MRI'd cleared for SM. She follows all the protocols and seems very ethical. I talked to her a couple of times back when I was looking for a puppy before I got Bandit. She is VERY expensive. I ultimately didn't go with her because I wanted to show and she doesn't sell show prospect puppys at all. She keeps all of them, or she sells even the show quality dogs on a spay/neuter contract, but if you are seeking a pet, she is perfect.

linderbelle
15th February 2009, 05:28 PM
I understand that the list says nothing but would be a starting point is what I really meant.

Hey Suzie just out of curiosity whats the woman selling those in Alabama. I bet you're going to say at least $3000.

harleyfarley
15th February 2009, 06:09 PM
Cant some of the rescue or ckcs clubs not list recommended breeders, by seeing proof of tests and date them, so from where you live, the following breeders had their dogs tested on this and that date. di

brotymo
15th February 2009, 06:24 PM
I
Hey Suzie just out of curiosity whats the woman selling those in Alabama. I bet you're going to say at least $3000.


...and up!

Brian M
15th February 2009, 06:26 PM
Karlin

Is it OK to move this post here where I meant it to go ,sorry , I shall delete the other copy.

Thanks Brian

I fully agree and support all the comments in the post Cavaliers are a basket case and Breeders in Europe, but I come back to a question I have asked before to members and had no direct answers ,I have had dogs and cats and snakes and mice and frogs and on and on all my life but Cavaliers only three years so I know nothing and the weeny bits I do know have all been supplied by our kindly forum members .So my question is Who and Where are these good ethical breeders who follow the MVD protocol and MRI scan with results shown ,sorry I don't know one and don't have the faintest idea on how to find them apart from getting loads of numbers and phoning people up ,but a person with a lot of knowledge IE a breeder can easily misguide me /Jo public especially if they put in your hand a beautiful little 8 week puppy,so we already know that most of the public when they want a Cavalier will never have heard of MVD or SM so hes not therefore going to ask questions of something he doesn't even know exists,so all the good we could do by guiding people to good trusting honorable breeders if we/I only knew where they are. When I go out for a walk with the girls I am a walking advertisement poster for Cavaliers and am often stopped and asked where did I get them from ,so not knowing any good breeders locally I normally refer them to cavaliertalk for a good read before buying ,but Jo Public once they have an idea in their mind or a child who wants a puppy they generally want one now so its hello to BYB or money driven breeders once again .Please everybody we need HELP here, again some form of accredited list formed by the Clubs or KC and audited by knowledgeable people ,I for one would willingly pay more for a pup supplied this way or once again are we going to be treated with utter contempt like we always are by the ruling Junta at the clubs and K C .For most of my working life I have been in the Timber Trade working both as a Buyer and a Salesperson and held positions of Company Director and similar so if I want a specialist type of plywood or species of timber I know where to go both in the UK and abroad but if I want a Cavalier, like my first one Poppy I phoned around then in the end found her via the KC registered puppy list .MVD/SM whats that never heard of it I know what I will do I will goggle it and look for an accredited list of good breeders who may have some puppies and also possibly inform me of any problems to look out for in this breed,sorry theres no such list oh well I may as buy from that nice lady around the corner, Pls Pls a list of good breeders is SO Important

I really truly believe that this is of the utmost importance and unless we are guided by the good people who have the knowledge of where these breeders are who we can purchase from and who are quality and trusting people who are doing health checks for the benefit of the lovely little breed of dog called Cavaliers and not for the benefit of their bank account or show ring kudos then I do fear there will be no change or very little.:([/quote]