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harleyfarley
22nd February 2009, 01:28 PM
Is this worth signing, i cant see that it will do a lot but it might be a step in the right direction,

http://www.gopetition.co.uk/online/24731.html

RodRussell
22nd February 2009, 03:41 PM
Is this worth signing, i cant see that it will do a lot but it might be a step in the right direction

If you want the MPs to decide what breeders ought to do -- and ought not to do -- then go ahead and sign it. I certainly don't want my governments, be they local, state, or central, to be telling breeders in the US how to be breeding pedigree dogs. This type of legislation would cause the animal rights crowd great glee. It is like the proverbial camel getting his nose under the tent. Before you know it, animal rights philosophy will be running the whole show with all sorts of anti-breeder and anti-pet laws.

Think about MPs you know. Do you have confidence in any of them that they know more about breeding than breeders you know and respect?

Brian M
22nd February 2009, 05:10 PM
Rod

Even though I have three Cavs and the oldest is 2 1/2 and before them it was always cats and an assortment of dogs from a 57 to a GSD ,J R ,Kerry Blue and others ,and since a kid when I first got frogs and frog spawn from my local park pond I have always had an interest in animals of some variety .So I am very new to the wonderful world of Cavaliers so my problem is when I get my next Cavalier I don't have a clue where or who to go to that I can fully trust as being a good reputable health focused breeder ,thanks to Karlin and M C and other people on this and other websites I know what questions to ask but where do I begin to look , so far nobody has said to me or other people that have asked the same question here is a list of names and phone numbers of breeders who are trusting supportive health focused covering all required aspects and will also show you all the results of any scans requested and therefore tick all the boxes that should be ticked ,so I honestly think that if and when I decide to get another Cavalier where do I start who do I phone first ,I fully understand Cavaliers like a lot of things don't come with a five year parts and labour warranty but will it turn into another random lottery of chance.So i am more fully aware of what i need to do and ask but I am lacking in guidance of what direction to take ,so this where good Cavalier people of many years standing and of great knowledge like yourself need to take us newbies like me and others and some how say advise us to not to go to that breeder as this one is a lot better ,so Jo Public desperately needs help and guidance from you experts PLS.

Lisa_T
22nd February 2009, 06:52 PM
Actually, I think the general idea of the petition is a good one. If how breeders breed is enshrined in law, it makes it easier to pursue the ones who don't stick to certain standards. I can see that it might irritate reputable, well established breeders (not least because such a law would almost certainly guarantee more red tape), but it could be a useful weapon against puppy farms/BYB/breeders who don't health test etc.

BUT - before signing it I'd like to know more. For example, would appropriate health tests and screens become compulsory before a dog could be bred/shown? Eg, heart and MRI scanning for Cavs? Otherwise, I'm not sure I see the point of it. Karlin has said several times that 'Accredited Breeder' status doesn't necessarily mean much.

harleyfarley
22nd February 2009, 06:53 PM
Rod

Even though I have three Cavs and the oldest is 2 1/2 and before them it was always cats and an assortment of dogs from a 57 to a GSD ,J R ,Kerry Blue and others ,and since a kid when I first got frogs and frog spawn from my local park pond I have always had an interest in animals of some variety .So I am very new to the wonderful world of Cavaliers so my problem is when I get my next Cavalier I don't have a clue where or who to go to that I can fully trust as being a good reputable health focused breeder ,thanks to Karlin and M C and other people on this and other websites I know what questions to ask but where do I begin to look , so far nobody has said to me or other people that have asked the same question here is a list of names and phone numbers of breeders who are trusting supportive health focused covering all required aspects and will also show you all the results of any scans requested and therefore tick all the boxes that should be ticked ,so I honestly think that if and when I decide to get another Cavalier where do I start who do I phone first ,I fully understand Cavaliers like a lot of things don't come with a five year parts and labour warranty but will it turn into another random lottery of chance.So i am more fully aware of what i need to do and ask but I am lacking in guidance of what direction to take ,so this where good Cavalier people of many years standing and of great knowledge like yourself need to take us newbies like me and others and some how say advise us to not to go to that breeder as this one is a lot better ,so Jo Public desperately needs help and guidance from you experts PLS.

Very well said Brian, Id like to see a list of dedicated breeders, who screen their breeding dogs for all the hereditary conditions affecting cavaliers not because they want to sell their puppies for more money, but because they care about their own dogs, and the future generations of cavaliers.

More importantly dont the goverment make the law, without it being against the law to have puppy farms whos gonna take any notice, how can the RSPCA take any action without the police to back them up.

RodRussell
22nd February 2009, 09:29 PM
More importantly dont the goverment make the law, without it being against the law to have puppy farms whos gonna take any notice, how can the RSPCA take any action without the police to back them up.

The problem with a law against puppy farms is that the MPs get to decide what a puppy farm is.

In the US right now, in several jurisdictions, statewide and locally, governments are considering legislation that defines a "commercial breeder", which often includes not just puppy farmers but anyone who breeds, say, two or more litters a year and offers to sell those puppies to the public. Other legislation goes even farther and would require that all dogs over the age of 4 MONTHS be neutered.

So, I have a big problem with letting governments regulate pedigree breeding. They don't know when enough is enough. They always want to move towards more and more regulation and accumulation of their power.

RodRussell
22nd February 2009, 09:38 PM
So i am more fully aware of what i need to do and ask but I am lacking in guidance of what direction to take ,so this where good Cavalier people of many years standing and of great knowledge like yourself need to take us newbies like me and others and some how say advise us to not to go to that breeder as this one is a lot better

Brian, you say you know the questions to ask, thanks to Karlin and others. You should trust yourself to ask the questions, either get the answers or get hung up upon when you ask them, and based upon the answers -- and the paperwork to support those answers -- make your decision on a breeder. There is a set of questions here, too: http://cavalierhealth.org/questions_for_breeder.htm They are oriented for US buyers, but the general information in them would be helpful anywhere. There also is a section on "How to find a Cavalier breeder" http://cavalierhealth.org/breeders.htm#HOW_TO_FIND again directed to the US buyer.

Once you get the answers to the questions, trust your judgment, but also ask others about the breeders you focus upon.