Perhaps you could direct the question of ''proving a dog'' to Margaret,who started this thread.
She was an experienced stud dog owner who ''proved '' her Ch.Mareve Indiana at 10 MONTHS.
Maybe she could answer why this is necessary???
Of course I can answer.
I would point out that Monty was born in 1992, before the MVD protocol was introduced. When it was adopted, I like everyone else, just did not take on board the necessity to embrace it wholeheartedly if we really wanted to make a difference to the MVD problem in the breed.
I heart checked Monty through the years and insisted that bitches that came to him had clear heart certificates & I thought I was being responsible. I really never took in the full implications of a protocol that was accepted without discussion about how it was going to be publicised, implementated, or monitored.
The cardiologist's protocol was never going to work, because it was contrary to the normal practices in the cavalier breeding world, and the same is true today.
There can be no going forward on health until breeders accept the reality of the problem and are willing to change their thinking & their breeding practices.
Diverting attention to puppy farmers or maintaining it is the fault of others, never the long established breeders that 'know their lines' is fooling themselves and fooling others. All breeders need to go out to use other lines sometimes. Most go to an outside stud dog for every mating,
The truth is that the breeders that really follow the protocol, the breeders that do not breed until the dog and bitch are both 2.5 years old
and the parents five years old & murmur free, are just not out there.
You can argue, as I now do, whether the protocol should have been adopted with so little consultation with breeders, but for these breeders to pretend that they & all good long established cavalier club members breeders follow the heart protocol is not true and they know it.
To get back to the question about Monty..........In 1992 it was, and has continued to be, customary for promising show dogs to be proved before they were a year old.
Inexperienced owners were told by the established breeders that it was advisable, so that they were proved to be fertile and worth keeping as a stud dog.
There was also a belief that a dog would not know what to do, or be so keen, if he was not introduced to the delights of sex at a young age.
I'm sure there are some dogs that would perhaps be less reluctant to perform when older but not many. I have supervised the first mating of a three year old dog and there was not much of a problem.
Would I use a dog or bitch now before 2.5 years........No.
As I said in my first post of this thread, I have been reading the "age at breeding" on the cavalierhealth board with interest. I knew that question 17 that asked ' what do you do' would not get a straight answer and I was right.
The truth is that all of the breeders answering that post use their dogs for the first time at around about 1 year and, contrary to what is suggested, they are continued to be used regularly.
You have to read between the lines of what is said. When someone says they don't mate their bitches till their third season, realise those cavaliers may still be only 18 months, they just don't want to say so.
For those that want to check out the truth of all this, go and join
http://www.worldpedigrees.com/ and look at the pedigrees of the recent top dogs & bitches and you will realise how so many people say, or imply, one thing & do another.
When these posters stop deceiving themselves & others and put their energy into facing the terrible health problems that must be tackled in this loveliest of breeds, then they will deserve to be respected as breeders.
As a matter of interest I looked at pedigree data of number three top stud dog 2008.
His Mother, born
11/2003, was mated at 14 months to produce him in
3/2005.
He was mated twice at 12 months and again at 13 months and has been used continuously since.
There is a daughter of his, litter sister to a cavalier that did very well at Crufts, born
3/07 who was mated 5/08 ( 14 months ) to produce a litter in
7/2008.
Four generations before the original bitch is five years old.
That is why cavaliers from show stock are still dropping dead from MVD at 7 years.
Instead of blaming puppy farms or BYB for all the health problems, we could make some effort to clean up our own backyard first.
Margaret C
