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View Full Version : A good breeder list?



kmatt
3rd April 2009, 05:49 AM
This is mainly to Karlin because her box is full.

I've read your rules Karlin and they are all for your safety and to cut down on complaints within the board, but I was wondering why you don't have a recommended breeder list. One that includes breeders who scan their studs and bitches, are generally well respected and have good facilities, and/or are know for producing good dogs. Going through eight different breeders before I found Anna was hard. 5 were in horrible conditions and 2 more produced on a puppy mill level. I could have really used a list that is recommended by some of your top posters/people who you trust. Wouldn't that make it easier to also boycott those that don't take the welfare of their dogs seriously, or ones that don't scan their dogs?

Just wondering.

Kmatt

harleyfarley
3rd April 2009, 11:37 AM
Although it sounds like a good idea, i can see problems if a breeder thats recommended suddenly uses a dog thats not scanned or is even diagnosed with mvd, or sm, if i got another puppy i would either get a rescue dog, or i would ask some of the respected members for their recommendations.

Cathy Moon
3rd April 2009, 11:40 AM
Just wanted to say: Until there is a public list, I research and keep my own list and have PM'd a few people with names of health focused breeders. Sometimes you have to be willing to travel long distances to buy a cavalier from a health focused breeder.

It is still up to the puppy buyer to ask for pedigrees and health certs, verify the certs are valid, calculate the ages of sire and dam when health testing was performed and when puppies were born, calculate the ages of grandsires/dams to verify protocols were adhered to (and view their health certs), and know the protocols for testing. It might seem like a lot of work, but that is the only way for puppy buyers to know they are supporting a health focused breeder.

Margaret C
3rd April 2009, 01:23 PM
I keep a list of breeders that I know have scanned and had some good results. They often let me know if they have puppies.

Because circumstances change, and sometimes breeders will decide to ignore protocols they have previously followed, I always give a guide to what questions to ask & how to read the MRI certificates.

I also always warn that it is wise to see the certificates before they see the puppy.
After all, who could resist a litter of beautiful bright-eyed baby cavaliers, or believe that those lively puppies could end up suffering painful inherited conditions at an early age?

Margaret C

kmatt
3rd April 2009, 09:18 PM
I understand All of your points. They are all excellent reasons for why a list wouldn't work. I know Karlin doesn't like to talk about breeders here and I wish I would have thought to ask someone. That would have saved me alot of trouble. I feel though that Anna's breeder while she might not be as safety concisious as I would have liked, I was able to call some of her past clients that have adult dogs and asked how their health was and got a good report from all. I guess she just lucked out with her breeding stock. Big plus was that she hasn't yet (fingers crossed) has one case of SM from her litters.

Oh well, I guess the best thing to do is to PM someone to keep hold of a list for everyone and put a sticky on the board knowing who to PM to get this list.

Karlin
3rd April 2009, 09:31 PM
The question about a list of breeders should really be directed to clubs and breeders -- they have the ability to monitor or could take such a decision to create a list. People have noted the main problems with creating a list. I cannot verify what individuals are actually doing so cannot rely on a list -- and people who say they are following protocols may not be -- researching this has to remain the task of the careful buyer just as someone would thoroughly check out the source of any important purchase.

I don't allow discussions of individual breeders because there are libel implications unless what is posted is a matter of verifiable fact. I am willing to take on the responsibility of determining whether I personally will make posts stating such facts, as I own the forum and also have strong legal backup in Ireland and the US, but most members will not also be in that position. Libel etc is explained in the Getting Started section.

It would be very helpful if there were a health related listing site on which breeders could post health results. There has been an attempt to set up such a site in the US through one of the national clubs with minimal participation, but many hope it will expand further.

Just be aware that *asking* for actual test certs is the best way to determine what a breeder is doing. Phoning owners of dogs isn't generally very helpful -- most pet owners do not even do any of the testing that would indicate to them the existence of either MVD or SM (vets miss half of all murmurs up to age 6) and short term ownership of a pet dog isn't giving much of a health picture as these more serious problems are progressive. You need to see the result of actual cardiologist tests and MRI scans and ideally get info on the breeder's line over time. How are older dogs doing healthwise? That too is a better gauge than to speak to people with dogs under 5 or 6.

In short: please don't rely on lists kept by members as anything but the most basic, minimal, UNVERIFIED shortlist -- more a list of potential places to start, NOT a list of good breeders. Follow the recommendations for finding a puppy as posted in the Library -- talk to the breeder, ask for health certs, and so on.

Brian M
3rd April 2009, 09:42 PM
Hi

A breeders list is something I have sought for a long time ,but as time goes on and day by day I learn things and pick up lots of hints and tips from the many more highly experienced people who try and guide me on to the right path I do relise now a good breeders list is not very practical and the way to go for me next would be to PM the many people I am now more aware of and most important of all their guidance I would implicitly trust.
And with my new found mentors and I hope friends I do not think I would source another pup from any of my beautiful girls breeders,but when they acquired me my knowledge was nil but now I am on page one of the book of Cavalier Knowledge.:)

Karlin
3rd April 2009, 09:46 PM
Also just cleared my PM box. :thmbsup: Thanks for reminding me it was full!

kmatt
3rd April 2009, 09:54 PM
Also just cleared my PM box. :thmbsup: Thanks for reminding me it was full!
Your welcome Karlin. I tried just Pm'in you for 3 days straight and finally gave up and created a post :D.