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View Full Version : TV3 Ireland Pedigree Dogs the shocking truth



sins
17th May 2009, 04:33 PM
Monday night @ 9.00 pm TV3

"Investigation into the health of thoroughbred dogs, including the threat of inherited disease and other welfare issues affecting the animals. Experts share their opinions of the pedigree system, and the programme reveals the historical factors that have led to particular problems in certain breeds, discussing the possible solutions."

Looking at the trailer on TV3 this appears to be pedigree dogs exposed.
Sins

Katelyn
17th May 2009, 04:37 PM
thanks i would have missed that

Cathy Moon
17th May 2009, 06:06 PM
It will be interesting to see the reaction in Ireland. Hopefully pet buyers and health conscious breeders will exert needed pressure for improvement.

Charlifarley
18th May 2009, 12:45 PM
I was wondering if it was a showing of 'pedigree dogs exposed', cos I don't think TV3 make too many of their own programmes.

Karlin
18th May 2009, 01:51 PM
Perhaps they had to give it a different name -- the image in the paper is the cavalier from PDE so assuming it is the same show. I understand the IKC was on TV3 this morning talking about cavaliers and not acknowledging the serious problems in the breed. Given that the Irish club makes as far as anyone can see, absolutely no efforts on behalf of breed health or educating its club members about even something as basic as MVD ( let's just say some prominent Irish breeders have been known to say there's no MVD in their lines -- the kind of comment you'd normally only hear from puppy farmers and backyard breeders) you'd think the LAST breed in Ireland the IKC would be defending would be cavaliers. The UK cavalier club appears a paragon of across-the-board health support and massive health investment in comparison. I truly believe the Irish club to be amongst the WORST in the world on health issues in the breed. This is a shame -- and very worrying -- as some Irish lines have been key to the breed's development and some continue to be influential.

I am still looking for a single Irish club breeder who cardiologist tests and has begun to MRI. I will be delighted when I have some names I can recommend to Irish puppy buyers.

sins
18th May 2009, 03:56 PM
It's definitely PDE under another title.
This is the interview on TV3 this morning. Hang your head and weep for the sheer awfulness of it.You'll know what I mean when you look at it.
There's a representative from the IKC and the DPSCA.
http://www.tv3.ie/videos.php?video=9082&locID=1.65.185&page=4


Sins

ilsamom
18th May 2009, 04:45 PM
Given that the Irish club makes as far as anyone can see, absolutely no efforts on behalf of breed health or educating its club members about even something as basic as MVD ( let's just say some prominent Irish breeders have been known to say there's no MVD in their lines -- the kind of comment you'd normally only hear from puppy farmers and backyard breeders) you'd think the LAST breed in Ireland the IKC would be defending would be cavaliers. The UK cavalier club appears a paragon of across-the-board health support and massive health investment in comparison. I truly believe the Irish club to be amongst the WORST in the world on health issues in the breed. This is a shame -- and very worrying -- as some Irish lines have been key to the breed's development and some continue to be influential.

I am still looking for a single Irish club breeder who cardiologist tests and has begun to MRI. I will be delighted when I have some names I can recommend to Irish puppy buyers.



Very interesting Karlin. I remember reading, as I was researching heart healthy cavalier breeders, that as Ireland has strict quarantine laws the Irish cavaliers were healthier and from separate bloodlines from other european cavaliers. Of course I know now that is not true. The article recommended buying an Irish cavalier and it may have been a propaganda campaign from Irish breeders or puppy farmers. Unfortunately this is commonly accepted by many in Europe who are happy to find certified Irish Cavs in pet shops:mad:. People believe this and don't listen when I explain that the Irish cavaliers in the shops are from puppy farms. I am sorry but I don't remember where I read it as it was about 5 yrs ago but I think it was in an English dog magazine.

Jen and Ilsa

Karlin
19th May 2009, 11:38 PM
That is a lie spread about by the puppy farmers but also some breeders, club and non-club, to their shame. The quarantine laws have nothing to do with healthy dogs. They are merely a screen for rabies, not breed health or genetic disease.

It is a ridiculous claim too -- there are no 'separate lines'; all cavaliers go back in just a few decades to a very small group of dogs from the UK in the 1950s as this is a reconstructed breed all all cavaliers descend from the same UK dogs. All cavaliers are pretty much interrelated and will go back to similar groups of popular dogs of the time within a few generations on a pedigree.

If anything there is so little proper heart testing in Ireland and so little promotion or support for the MVD protocol for breeding within the club (as I've been told directly from breeders) that I'd think Irish cavaliers are probably at greater risk for early onset heart disease, all else being equal. At least half of all 5 year olds+ I get in rescue already have murmurs and I've had a three year old with a bad murmur. :(

metime
20th May 2009, 12:11 AM
The programme really saddened me. I really want another cav to fill the void of losing our beautiful guy 3 months ago. I have to say I was totally ignorant to the whole breeding situation before I joined this site and now, though my children and myself want another cav to spoil I am not sure. Spoke to my vet and her nurse and before this show was aired her nurse explained the whole thing about inbreeding. They also explained that there was no guarantees of finding a cav without some problem.

This really saddened me.

My vet has found me a breeder and will hopefully get a new puppy from them.

But as the documentary said I'm not sure if I should just go for a mongrel. Again my vet used this example that if you really want a puppy without genetic disorders a mongrel is your best bet.

I don't want a Cav for shows I just want a Cav to love again :)

Karlin
20th May 2009, 12:18 AM
I would not rely on a breeder simply because the contact is through your vet. You need to yourself ask all the questions and get the health certs directly from the breeder. If the breeder cannot show you clear heart certs from a *cardiologist* (NOT a vet!) then do not even consider them. I also would not remotely consider a breeder who isn't MRI scanning their dogs and I'd want to know the results and why they made the choice of sire for that breeding and would want to know the heart and MRI statis of the sire. Regardless of what a vet may say, a vet is not adequate for getting heart certs (actually a vet cannot even issue them).

There is detail on all of this in the Library section on finding a puppy. You need to actually see the certs, not go on a recommendation alone, though that can be starting point. I'd recommend printing out the guidelines for finding a cavalier puppy for your vet -- I would bet they are not even aware of the MVD protocol, or the need for MRI screening.

If you can find ONE breeder in Ireland who properly heart and MRI tests, please PM me.

chloe92us
20th May 2009, 01:02 AM
This is off topic, but last summer when we were on vacation out of state, Ollie had a bout of colitis and I had to go to a vet there. Well, both vets in the practice had Cavaliers. The vet I saw, his wife was breeding from theirs and he says to me; "We went with a stud from Ireland to expand the genepool." I was like, uh, so you went with a puppy mill dog????

Karlin
20th May 2009, 03:03 PM
I've found vets, even the really good ones, know very VERY little about breed genetic health and breeding full stop beyond the medical and care aspects. They also tend to be pretty poor on behaviour issues. Neither of these areas are their area of expertise of course, but some of what I hear is worryingly ignorant at times from professionals who you'd think would know better.

davey
27th May 2009, 08:38 PM
I'm absolutely gutted at the health probs of poor little cavaliers! I was seriously thinking of getting another one, but i really dont know if i want to run such a risk now! I phoned one man (not gentleman) who had some adoringly beautiful black and tans and I asked bout scans, health checks etc., he laughed at me and mocked me as if i as some sort of a dim wit girlie with no clue...i was not impressed...so told him where to go and hung up!!! :mad:
I'm completely at a loss now....dont mean to sound mean, but cavvies are the wee doggies I just adore (Dont really like any of the others...sorry)..so disappointed!! Afraid to run the risk of gettin a little one, and then it been sick and in pain..not fair to do that to dog :(

Karlin
27th May 2009, 10:48 PM
I don't as yet know of any Irish breeders doing proper cardiologist heart testing much less MRI scans though I am sure there are a few who do within the club.

It is very hard to find health focused breeders. If you wish to get another cavalier perhaps PM Margaret C as Margaret generally will know of some health focused UK breeders.

Justine
28th May 2009, 08:03 AM
I had 3 text from pals to tell me this was on,but had already seen it.It was the topic of conversation with all the mums outside school,which was good.I couldnt watch it again,to sad.At least it got folks talking.