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Dublin
21st May 2009, 08:30 AM
I dont know what im doing wrong but almost every night one or both (I assume) dogs wee overnight. They are fine when left during the day but overnight seem to be 'caught short'.

They are walked every morning & almost every night, let out for wee's when we come home from work & I make sure they go wee's after their dinner, at least once during the evening & right before I go to bed (around 11-12pm). They're allways tired when they go to bed so I cant see what the problem is.

This has been going on a while now (since toilet training for Sparky was well over) & it's doing my head in!

I changed the way I feed them as I thought giving them dry food at night may be causing them to want a big drink & then they need to go so now they have dry in the mornings & raw at night.

Any ideas??

(oh they've both been to the vet since this started & they are both fully healthy - they did think possibly as Cassie is getting old perhaps she was 'leaking' but as they're dry during the day that was pretty much ruled out)

Justine
21st May 2009, 10:10 AM
You could take the water away at say 9pm.Archie is over a yr old and he peed in the house the other day,its just time i suppose.They do have little forgetting moments.

shippers
21st May 2009, 10:41 AM
It must be so frustrating. Yes I would take the bowl of water away after 9pm too. Also walk them in the evening to tire them out so they sleep. Are they crated? I don't think they would wee in their crates as they dont usually mess their beds. What time do they go out in the morning? It might be that they can't hang on the length of time and you may need to let them out earlier

Dublin
21st May 2009, 12:55 PM
thanx guys.

They are walked almost every night & are let out just before 7 every night. They're not crated as I only have 1 crate but if this continues I may buy another & try that! Will take the water away tonight & see if that helps.

Love my Cavaliers
21st May 2009, 01:51 PM
I have this problem with Madison who is 5. She was peeing almost every night. It took me a while to figure out who it was. At first I thought it was Riley because she has neurological deficits (now diagnosed as SM). Once I realized it was not Riley, I put Maddie in a crate at night and she still peed. We tried Proin - several different dosages, and even tried estrogen. She also went to an internist who did an ultrasound to make sure there was no anatomical reason for it, which there wasn't. As far as I know she also doesn't pee during the day. I have smelled all the beds, couches and chairs where they sleep, and don't see or smell any evidence of it on any rugs. So like your situation, it just seems to be at night. The internist even suggested that maybe she had separation anxiety so I put her crate right next to me bed, but she stil peed. I have since become resigned to it and put her in diapers at night. She now waits for me to put them on before she goes to bed. They all go out around 11:00 p.m. for the last pee at night, and I always make sure that Madison pees then. They are out between 6:30 and 7:00 every morning and water is taken up by 7:00 every night.

So unfortunately I don't have any magic solutions for you. I wish Maddie didn't have to wear diapers, but at least she doesn't seem to mind and I am not constantly washing bedding out any more. Good luck.

Dublin
21st May 2009, 03:33 PM
Oh I can just imagine her wanding around with a nappy on!!!

I should have said - it's not the bed or bedding that gets pee'd on - it's my tiled floor (im glad I dont have a carpet!!!).

I think it is Cassie, just by the way she is - she can be lazy & if I dont watch her wee outside she will stand there for a few mins & then head back in as if she's been!!! for the last outing at night I also have to send her out again after her wee to do her poo or she will do that in the kitchen too!

Another thing Cass did the other day was when I gave them raw chicken drumstick each for their dinner, they both had their towels on the floor & Cass ate hers fairly quick (I think she wanted Sparkys too!) & eventually Sparky finished his & she went over to his towel & pee'd on it! So im wondering if this is behavioural?

SamT
21st May 2009, 05:52 PM
Charlie used to do this and still does sometimes if we dont get up. He is left out about 10.30 to do his business and my hubby gets up around half 6 or before to let them (we have two) out. He recently had two bladder infections and has had an ultra sound which showed his bladder was 1/3rd of the size it should be but that it will expand over time, he was on anti biotics for 3 weeks. Even if we leave him till 7.30 in the morning he will do his business on the paper we left down. We might get a doggie door so he can go out and do it himself.

We had sam first and we got charlie about two months later, when charlie came home we had two beds out for them and charlie got in the big one so sam went into the small one and pee'd in it!! God it sounds funny now but at the time I was not impressed. We feed our two separate because charlie is very protective of food and he will bully sam into not eating his food so he can get it.

frecklesmom
21st May 2009, 06:26 PM
Peeing at night when I let mine out in the yard can be challenge. Last week I darted out to the garage to have a look down the sidewalk after I let them out and there they were together-timing themselves,I guess,-not doing their task and pretty soon they hurdled for the house :mad:. We all went back to the yard and I stood and watched until everyone took care of business. Think they're too smart for their own good :lol:.

Brenda in SC
21st May 2009, 08:03 PM
Shippers makes a good point. Rudy is crated at about 11 pm and hasn't soiled in the crate in months (knock on wood!!):sl*p:. He will often head to the door of the crate himself and wait for someone to 'put him to bed'. So getting him to go outside at that point is an effort. He runs out, pretends he has done something and then comes right back to the door wanting in....as if! I try not to limit the water intake (as I know they don't get enough on average anyway, but once he's crated, there's no more water til morning.

I have taken to going WITH him outside on that last trip before bed - which has helped remind him what we are out there for! So far, so good, no accidents in the crate at night.

Karlin
21st May 2009, 08:04 PM
I would think it very unlikely it is both dogs, and would guess it is your senior. I know several elderly dogs that are only leaky at night, including a neighbour's old collie girl. I'd suggest separating them somehow to determine who it is over a couple of nights. Just crate one. If your senior -- which I would guess to be the case -- then I'd try medication or some kind of dog nappies at night.

Weeing at night otherwise might be due to a dog coming from a situation in which the breeder caged/crated the litter, puppy farm situations, etc -- in other words any situation in which the bitch could not physically keep the whelping area clean or herself was from puppyfarm/BYB stock and never very clean or housetrained herself, as she then won't give her puppies any foundation for keeping certain areas clean. Sadly cavaliers are one of thebreeds most commonly mass-farmed in the UK and Ireland and the US. If puppies grow up in their urine and feces they have no concept of NOT going in the area in which they live. This can be almost impossible ever to eradicate even if the dog will go outside during the day. Keep in mind that many people who appear to be family breeders are actually fronts for mass breeding or breed pretty neglectfully and simply bring the pups/mother inside when visited by buyers to make it appear as if the bitch is the family dog. A very, very common selling tactic. :(

I'd also maybe get a second opinion on UTIs. They can be missed during testing. Also there are other potential causes and if the dogs haven;t been ultrasounded etc these could be missed.

chloe92us
22nd May 2009, 03:43 AM
My JRT who passed last year @ 14 YO started weeing her bed at around 12 YO. Like old people, they lose their ability to hold it for long hours and half the time don't even realize they've done it. To test this theory, I would put both dogs in their own crate and see who's having the accidents. I would put my money on your JRT.

Dublin
22nd May 2009, 09:30 AM
Well we had a dry night last night!!!!:w**h**:

I was on dogster yesterday & put the same question there too, someone answered me saying their dog does the same - ageing an older Jack Russell & the vet told them she had developed a kind of seperation anxiety & suggested calming treatments.

This kinda rang a bell as Cass I wouldnt say has seperation anxiety but she is allways overly excited to see me in a morning (moreso than when I come home from work) so I had a bottle of valarian compound (I use for fireworks) so I gave her a few drops of that before I went to bed last night & she was a little calmer this morning so gonna keep doing that & see if it does work or not. Obviously last night could have just been a fluke!!

Another thing someone recomended was a homeopathic remedy called 'leaks away' which I have ordered in case this dosnt work for her. I know I am still guessing it is Cass but I really dont want to crate her/them at night but will if I cant solve this.

Cass wasnt from a puppy farm or anything like that - my friend bred her & Ive had her since she was 12 weeks.

Dublin
25th May 2009, 09:36 PM
:updte:

So far so good with the valarian - since Cass has been having that Ive had 4 dry nights:jmp: - fingers crossed this stays this way!!!:D:D

Karlin
25th May 2009, 09:49 PM
That's great news. I have heard of quite a few people having success using valerian. :)

Dublin
26th May 2009, 12:35 PM
Well I thought I'd try it seeing as I had some in the cupboard already. & more good news - 5 Dry Nights!!!

Its also had another benefit on Cass, She can be a bit 'iffy' with other dogs but this morning we accidentally bumped into a dog & she was fine, then we met 3 more & I left her off the lad as she'd already been fine & she was very good, just had a good sniff & let them sniff her - I'll turn her into a Cavalier yet!!!

kmatt
27th May 2009, 08:39 AM
GREAT NEWS! Hope your pup keeps it up. Anna goes back and forth somedays, and toda wasn't the best of days. :cffee: Keep us updated.

Dublin
27th May 2009, 10:18 AM
:sl*p: We had a wee & a poo last night - wasnt impressed this morning but not gonna take it as a set back just gonna keep going with the valarian tonight as usual & hope it was just an accident last night.

Dublin
28th May 2009, 08:41 AM
:bang:
2nd night with both a wee & poo!

I think part of this is becuse they had bones during the day & occasionaly they mess overnihgt when they've had those for some reason.

Im gonna keep going with the valarian for another week (& not give the bones) & see how we get on before I try the leaks away - that arrived yesterday!

chloe92us
31st May 2009, 02:29 PM
QUOTE: "I'll turn her into a Cavalier yet!!!"

Good luck with that! ;)

Dublin
31st May 2009, 04:34 PM
QUOTE: "I'll turn her into a Cavalier yet!!!"

Good luck with that! ;)


:jump: - she just needs her hair to grow a bit now!!!!

Have had 2 dry nights again!

kmatt
31st May 2009, 07:36 PM
:xfngr:

Dublin
1st June 2009, 02:31 PM
3 dry nights now!:D

Dublin
4th June 2009, 10:36 AM
Only gonna whisper this as dont wanna tempt fate but - 6 dry nights in a row!!!!!:thmbsup:

Janice
4th June 2009, 11:25 AM
Brilliant!! :xfngr:

Dublin
15th June 2009, 01:36 PM
after 16 dry nights we had a little wee last night! :sl*p:

:xfngr: its a one off!

Janice
15th June 2009, 04:38 PM
It could well be a one off.

Reuben had never done a wee overnight from the moment we got him at 9 weeks. Then about 3 weeks ago he did one on 2 consecutive nights, then never again.

During the day, however, he does them whereever and whenever he feels like it!!! :lotsaluv:

kmatt
15th June 2009, 06:34 PM
:xctly:

Anna will sleep with me in bed for 12+ hours without going out, but if she's up and there is a bit of towel on the floor, she just goes. :grnyuk:

So that leaves me with lots of :v*cuum: to do. :swear:

Dublin
17th June 2009, 12:11 PM
Another wee last night - & she was sick a bit of bile too, she didnt want to go for her walk this mornign either (but that could have been the rain as she HATES rain!) gonna keep an eye on her poor baby.

chloe92us
17th June 2009, 07:02 PM
I don't want to freak you out, but this is exactly what happened when my JRT started her decline last year @ 14 YO. Her kidneys started failing and those were the first indicators. Keep a close eye on her and you may want to go see your vet, especially if she throws up again.

chloe92us
22nd June 2009, 02:31 PM
Sonia, How is Cass?

Dublin
25th June 2009, 11:50 AM
Thanks for asking!

The sick/bile was a one off but the weeing has started to being more common again unfortunatly.:(

So, this morning I have started giving her 'dorwest herbs' mixed vegetable tablets, in their brochure a few of their customers have reccomended it for the same problem - so going to still keep giving her the valarian at night too as this is having other benefits (temperment with other dogs) & try this for a while & see if theres any improvement with that.

As she's in very good condition Im not too worried at this stage of it being her kidneys but next time I take her to the vet I will get bloods done.

One other thing I have noticed when we're out in the park she loves to run but shes not running as much as she used to & she looks like an old dog running now (very slightly stiff). So I think she's just getting old!

chloe92us
25th June 2009, 12:43 PM
Yes, sounds like she is. Incontinence, arthritis, etc. All the fun stuff that goes along with getting old! ;)

Dublin
25th June 2009, 02:52 PM
It's just funny how quick it's come on - maybe it's the stress of having to look after a puppy!!!

Dublin
14th August 2009, 08:24 AM
:updte:

So.................... Cass went for about a month with virtually no accidents at night but the past 2 weeks pretty much every night theres a wee so last night I decided to take her to the vets this morning & get bloods done to see if there is something else going on or if they can give me any other advice.

She's still on the mixed veg tablets but they dont seem to be doing anything anymore.

Of course as I decided that last night there was noo wee last night but Im still going to take her as at least if I get the blood work done & it comes back clear I'll know she's ok in herself.



We're going to stay with my parents for a week at Xmas & mum has carpets throughout the house so im thinking I might get more of the puppy pads I had when Sparky was a pup so maybe she will go on those rather than the carpet? Im just hoping that it dosnt start making Sparky dirty at night too?

Louise1823
14th August 2009, 08:51 AM
Let us know how you get on at the vets later, hopefully there's no medical reason as to why she's going through the night..

Dublin
14th August 2009, 09:03 AM
Thanx xx

Dublin
14th August 2009, 12:20 PM
Right so we're home from the vets - Cass is having a nice sleep after her cup of tea & biscuits (doggie not human!).

I saw the vet I dont really like at the animal hospital, shes quite patronising & taks very quietly so you have to ask her to repeat everything - then when she does she says it like youre thick!

So, Cass has had a T4 blood test, have to call for results Tuesday lunchtime. She gave her a thouragh look over & said shes in great shape for her age (She manipulated her shoulder I said was a little stiff & aid yes it was a litle stiff & said she shoud be on glucosamine - which she has been on since she injured her shoulder when she was 6 months).

Regarding the weeing at night she dosnt thnk she's incontinent & dosnt think that it's in any way illness related (but obviously the blood test will let us know if theres anything else going on) - she thinks it's prob something that sounded like narcalepsy (???) to me - but she said its just one of those things, & I'll prob just have to put up with it as there isnt really any treatent for it. - then she started on well she is an old dog........................ & I butted in saying I dont care if she wee's on my floor, it's on tiles which are easily cleaned so if thats her only problem I'll look after it.

Then she took Cass off for the blood test & a nurse brought her back to me & said to call for the results on Tuesday - so I didnt realy get any answers.

Im not totaly impressed with this vet - she saw Leo when he was diagnosed with CHF & almost was trying to get me to let him go at diagnosis coz of his age (almost 14) - but with medication he lived another 11 happy months. She strikes me as a bit of a pessamist.

Can anyone reccoment a better vet in the Tallaght area? (even PM me as I dont think we can put the names on the board?) I chose this one because it's the closest to me & a friend of mine said they were brilliant throughout her Jack Russels life but Im loosing faith in them to be honest.

mounie
14th August 2009, 08:00 PM
Hi Sonia

and thanks for informing us about the little Cass, hope everything will work out well
i am very interested in valarian and its positive effetcs, my nicki is often nervous despite i try to keep him busy most of the time, does valarian help also to make them more friendly with other dogs?

thank you

Dublin
18th August 2009, 09:10 AM
i think valarian is great, ive used it for many years now - mainly my last dog leo coz he has fear issues with fireworks and loud bangs but now im using it with cass - its made her a lot more comfortable with other dogs now.

Will be ringing the vets at lunchtime to get the blood tests results

Dublin
18th August 2009, 10:47 AM
So, my vet just called me with Cass's results - which frightened tge bejayzus out of me as i hate when they call when they tell you to call.

So, everything was normal except liver function which was slightly up but nit too bad considering her age. She wants me to get cass retested in 3-6 months to keep an eye on that.

Then she told me she thinks cass has canine cognitive disorder although its quite hard ti diagnose properly. She explained its a bit like alziehimers. Theres lots of different trearments for it so its hard to treat too she said. So shes starting her on a suppliment that may help, she didnt say the name of it but said its a suppliment rather than a medication but its helped other dogs with similar problems so we're giving it a go.

I dont know much about canine cognitive disorder - does anyonw have ant experience?

I told my vet that Cassies mother has cushins syndrome at the same age Cass is now so i wondered if this could be connected? She said possibly but possibly not.

So im off to the vet now for the suppliment.