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View Full Version : Harley has a chari malformation



harleyfarley
17th June 2009, 09:29 PM
but no sm as yet. It seems he may get it as there is some fluid in the canal but no pockets of fluid so they cant call it sm. He also has a small pocket of fluid inside the brain, thats affecting his blink relexes in one eye (cant say ive noticed) and we are just to monitor him for the time being over the sm, the other bit they are discussing.

I was wondering instead of the syrinxs being the causes of the problems could it not it be the pressure on the brain or the amount of fluid when the gap is as harley has this and has symptoms, and no syrinx, some dog have syrinxs and no symptoms so surely its not the amount of fluid where is pockets but at the source. ??????

Margaret C
17th June 2009, 11:49 PM
I am so pleased that Harley does not have a syrinx.

You may well be right about the fluid in the brain causing the problems.
I'm afraid that there is nothing simple about SM and there is still so much to learn.
Dilated ventricles ( fluid within the brain ) is a very common finding in Cavaliers. As far as I know they have not been able to show if it is definitely connected with SM.

There have been cases where it is thought that pain symptoms were caused by chiari-like malformation, although there was no syrinx.

"Can CM alone cause clinical signs?
CM alone appears to cause facial pain in some dogs with owners describing ear and facial rubbing/scratching. This may be because of an increase in intracranial pressure or because compression of the brain stem can result a pain syndrome."

http://www.veterinary-neurologist.co.uk/faq.htm

meljoy
18th June 2009, 01:15 PM
Di,

Im so pleased Harley doesnt have any syrinx. Leo's MRI showed the same....no syrinx but he has CM. The neurologist said most if not all Cavs have this!

Leo definitely showed signs of neuro pain and what you're describing would make sense to us too.

Anyway I hope you can get Harley sorted soon.

Mel

harleyfarley
18th June 2009, 01:34 PM
Well he had a full examination, and the two areas the neurologist said gave his concern was pain when pressure applied to the neck and shoulder area, and his blink relexes in one eye.

He then told me there were five areas which could be causing these problems in order of likelyhood in his opinion.

1. cm and sm
2. slipped disk
3. infection of the spinal cord
4. psom (glue ear)
5. tumors

They say he has the malformed skull and the squashed brain at the bottom and there may be a little fluid in the canal as its wider than they would think it should be.
There is also a small amount of fluid by the brain part (and only on one side) that controls his blink relexes and they arnt too sure what it is or means.
They also said he may go on to get sm later on, its a point of monitoring him and administering pain releaf as and when he needs it.

For those worried about doing a scan i would do it again it i thought he was much worse. My appointment was at 10.15 i had to arrive at 10.00, loads of parking outside no problems free coffee if you want it. I chatted to a nice young chap he was very knowledgable about the brain area and very up on cm and sm, he finished his chat and examination at 11.00 and took harley from me straight away, his scan wasnt until 12.00. They checked my mobile number a number of times and i was told to collect him at 2.30, if however they decided to do a lumber punch to retrieve fluid from the spinal cord they would phone me first and i would need to collect him at 4.00. I didnt get any calls (phew) so returned about 2.15 when the same chap showed me the scan and pointed out the areas of concern. He carried Harley out to reception who was absolutley fine, once on the lead he was running around as if nothing had happened. He did seem slightly drowsy on the way home but nothing else. I fed him at about 7 that evening and he wolfed everything down with no effects.
I did ask about surgery just out of interest, and he said it was useless, out of the 20 dogs he had operated on only 3 were fine the others were either the same or worse.

Oh Mel, thanks for that, sorry leos the same, does he have to take anything for it, di

mlhirsch
18th June 2009, 10:07 PM
I am so sorry to hear about Harley, but I am very glad you have found this so early. I have really loved seeing all of the pictures of harley you post, what a beautiful dog!
My vet here also said they are no longer doing the surgery here because they saw no benefit. I feel this is so unfortunate.
I do have a few questions: Were they able to see a slipped disc on his MRI? Also, what do they think the spinal fluid will tell them?

tupup
18th June 2009, 10:24 PM
Hi Di,
Im glad the appointment itself went well & id imagine youre glad to get it over with. im sorry Harley has these problems & i sincerely hope he doesnt go on to get sm later.

harleyfarley
19th June 2009, 10:55 AM
I am so sorry to hear about Harley, but I am very glad you have found this so early. I have really loved seeing all of the pictures of harley you post, what a beautiful dog!
My vet here also said they are no longer doing the surgery here because they saw no benefit. I feel this is so unfortunate.
I do have a few questions: Were they able to see a slipped disc on his MRI? Also, what do they think the spinal fluid will tell them?

There was no slipped disc, the discomfort and symtoms his shows have to atriputed to the obvious cm he has. The list was what they think it could be and they would look for sign of in order of probability. They didnt feel the need to do a spinal tap this was a test they would do if they could see any obvious causes on the scan (an extra 600 too) its considered dangerous as its close to nerve endings and not done lightly but whilst he was sedated it would be done at the same time. Did i mention the quote i got was 2000 - 2600 it came in at 1344, I just hope the insurance pays up, good old barclaycard. di

meljoy
19th June 2009, 03:59 PM
Di,

The neurologist we saw at Cambridge told us to monitor Leo and observe for any thing we feel is causing him trouble.

At the moment its just his flipping anal glands:mad:

He does scratch but not excessively and hasnt had another screaming fit like before, so we watch and wait. He wasnt prescribed any meds by the neurologist, although I do have some from the vet "just in case"
I hope Harley is on the up soon.
Really looking forward to September when the doggie fun day is on in Chelmsford:jmp2:

Mel X

harleyfarley
19th June 2009, 06:50 PM
oh yes, i forgot your comeing as well, and pauline - it will be a great day and we can compare notes lol we could all bring along our scans - ok thats prob going a bit far. :o di