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Sabby
27th July 2009, 12:25 PM
Took Ebony for her booster this morning and the vet done an overall check up. I donít normally see this vet but as it was only her booster I wasnít too fussed. He suddenly just said Ebony got a heart murmur. He reckons itís a grade 2. He said I canít hear the wusching sound but there is defiantly something there. You could have knocked me down with a feather as she is only just over two. I got the sense that the vet didnít have much time to explain things so when Harley is going to have his stitches out next Monday I will take Ebony along to the vet I normally see. Not that I donít trust the other vets judgement but I want to have a proper talk to my vet. Ebony had a puppy murmur and when she was one my breeder took me to the Cavalier Club testing and the cardiologist gave her the all clear thatís why I was so shocked.
I donít really know how I feel, done all my crying already bet I will do a lot more.
I know itís only a grade 2 but I am still devastated.

waldor
27th July 2009, 12:33 PM
Do your vets perform UltraSound type scan, to verify? When our ShihTzu, Alex, was diagnosed with old-age onset heart murmur, our vet performed an ultrasound to verify the grade level.

I was devastated when Alex was diagnosed at level 2 or 3. With his daily Rx, though, it did not progress and he lived another 3 or 4 years and finally died from old age at 16 years. I continued to walk Alex as often and far as he could go, in his old age. In his prime, he walked 3 miles a day with me. Our vet said exercise was the best thing for his heart.

I'll keep my fingers crossed for you that the vet has made a mistake. (((Hugs)))

Karlin
27th July 2009, 12:34 PM
I'm so sorry you've been shocked by this unexpected diagnosis. :( The first thing you need is to get a specialist to see what is going on, if anything.

I'd definitely recommend immediately arranging to see a cardiologist. Some vets are far better than others at hearing things and a vet who hears something is *probably* more likely to be right than the one who hasn't heard anything -- it is a skill and vets are not as adept as a specialist; some are really poor at hearing murmurs though they are great vets in other ways. If a vet thinks there's likely to be a murmur in a dog at this age, you really would want to get an xray to establish heart size as a base measurement, and then see a cardiologist for a proper auscultation and echocradiogram etc. Having proper cardiologist care generally makes an enormous difference -- it is the difference for a person between having your GP manage serious heart disease, or a cardiologist. If this is indeed a murmur then you do want specialist care for a dog this age and also want to see whether this has to do with the earlier puppy murmur or is MVD.

If you get back a diagnosis of a murmur then you will definitely want to inform your breeder as this is critical information for them. You might consider ringing your breeder to get a recommendation of a cardiologist or to see if there are any cardio clinics very soon where you could at least get a murmur confirmed, if there, by a cardio.

I hope you get better news from a cardiologist.

PS there's an excellent set of info on what to do when you have a murmur diagnosis in the Health Library section.

Sabby
27th July 2009, 01:05 PM
Karlin
Thank you for your reply.

The first thing I done was ring the breeder as we have become very good friends over the last six years and I knew she wanted to know. Thatís why I was so shocked as I know she does all the testing. Ebonyís mum is 7 years old and clear and her dad is clear at 5. She also knows the history of the grand parents and that is very good. All of the other 7 puppies in the litter are all ok. (She stays in touch with all the owners)
It just shows that things still can go wrong no matter how hard you try.
The vet I saw today said that there is no need to do anything, just to keep an eye on Ebony. Thatís why I want to see my regular vet on Monday to have a proper talk and see what he advises. The vets I take Ebony to is a 3 tier RCVS Hospital and I think they have Cardio Clinics there from time to time. I will find out more on Monday.
The next health testing from the CKCS Club is at the end of September.

Bet
27th July 2009, 02:20 PM
Sabby ,I was so sorry read your news about Ebony, and probably this is not the proper Thread to put this information on.

This morning I enquired at the Animal Health Trust, because of the serious MVD Problem afflicting our Cavalier Breed ,where 50 % of Cavaliers will have a Heart Murmur at 5 years of age,whether there is any Research taking place at the AHT Researching into the MVD Gene/Genes in Cavaliers.

Also whether the MVD Gene/Genes have to be found before DNA Samples are taken from Cavaliers to discover whether they have the MVD Gene/Genes or not.

This is the reply I have just received

Currently the MVD Research is focused on Producing Breeding Values,
although it is possible in the Future the aim would be to try and identify some of the Gene/Genes conferring susceptibility to MVD in the Future.

The MVD Gene/Genes would need to be identified and their effects quantified prior to the Production of a Test available to the Public.

So I guess that it is up to the Cavalier Breeders for the MVD Problem ,to lessen the the Problem in Cavaliers, to heed the Breeding Guidelines for the MVD Trouble in the Cavalier Breed,since the finding of the MVD Gene/Genes could be a long time away,

Bet( Hargreaves)

Wagtails
27th July 2009, 02:53 PM
Hi Sabby - I think we met at Kate's Cavalier Fun Day earlier this year.

I had a similar experience with one of my Cavs a few years ago - she had been cleared by my usual (excellent) vet at her vaccination MOT and then another (locum) chap pronounced about the heart murmur on another non-related occasion a few months later. I've owned Cavvies since 1992 and have had several with MVD, so I don't know why I was so shocked about this one, but I was - probably the abrupt and off-hand manner in which it was said, as much as anything.

Obviously it is always better to get an expert opinion, but don't worry too much at this stage. My lovely vet (who has Cavs himself) has always said to treat them quite normally, at least until such times as they may need medication (and probably thereafter as well) and so far they have all lived to be at least 9 years old (one is currently almost 11).

Good luck, and let us know how you get on, Marie-Anne + 3

Charlotte
27th July 2009, 04:12 PM
Heart murmers are very common in Cavalier King Charles Spaniel, our dog has one although its only a slight one, unless its really bad theres no need to worry that much

Kate H
27th July 2009, 06:08 PM
My rescue Aled has a Grade 2 murmur at 2 years old - picked up by the cardiologist at the Cavalier Club Ch. show in February. But to be honest there's not much you can do about it unless symptoms appear - just keep your dog fit, and be extra cautious in very hot weather. However, with Ebony's healthy background, it may be something other than the usual MVD, so worth a cardiologist check.

Hope it gets sorted, all the best,

Kate, Oliver and Aled

Sabby
27th July 2009, 11:03 PM
Thank you all for your replies and kind words.
You read about MVD and other health problems on here all the time and I always feel so sad for the owners but you just never think it will happen to you. (I know itís naÔve) I am trying to get my head around it and I have to stop looking at Ebony like she is really ill as she is just the same then she was yesterday. I think I will drive my Husband and myself mad looking for things that are not really there. I will see what next Monday will bring and I will keep you updated.

*Pauline*
27th July 2009, 11:24 PM
It will sink in Sabby and you will get past the shock. It's early days :hug:

Cathy T
28th July 2009, 02:28 AM
I know this comes as a shock.....as it did when my Shelby was graded at a 1 to 2 at age 2. She's now almost 6 and has a grade 4. But it hasn't slowed her down at all. We don't need any medication, her heart shows a very slight enlargement and her leakage is very minimal. We don't have to do anything different with her at all. Mine both are seen by the cardiologist annually at the health clinic and we'll continue to do that. I think you'll feel much better once you get some more solid information.

I know what you mean about feeling bad for others and then getting the shocking news yourself. Once you wrap your head around it you will come to terms with it and life will continue. I promise you that.