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Bet
29th July 2009, 06:53 PM
On the UK CKCS CLUB Web Site this has just appeared ,a Letter from the Kennel Club, headed ,Dog Showing and Health, along with mention of the copy of a Letter included which is recommended to be sent to Members of Parliament.

The first Letter says that Judges are instructed to remove any Dog they deem to be unhealthy from the Ring and Officials at Shows have the Responsibility to ensure that any Dog not so Removed by the Judge ,but which they suspect of being unhealthy is Examined by a Vet.

How will a Cavalier Judge know if a Cavalier is healthy or not, there could be no visable signs of SM or MVD.?

The 2nd suggested Letter to be sent to the Member of Parliament,says that the vast majority of Dogs Bred and Exhibited at Shows are Healthy,,that Dog Shows are one of the best ways in which to eradicate the very distressing Diseases that Blight some Dogs Lives.

For our Cavalier Breed I will say again , that before a Cavalier is made up to be Champion, he or she, particularly a Cavalier Dog should be Health Tested for SM and MVD.

It is well known that when a Dog becomes a Champion ,they are the Flavour of the Month.

Bet( Hargreaves)

HollyDolly
29th July 2009, 07:12 PM
Over the last few months there have been a number of judges that when writing their critique on Cavaliers they have judged at Championship shows they write "HOW HEALTHY THE DOGS WERE" I am so pleased they have x ray vision or maybe even an MRI scan in a papoose on their chest.

I have written on several occasions to the kennel Club asking how they will ensure that Judges are Qualified Vets.
If a Cavalier Scratches in the ring will it be disqualified?:winkct:


Nanette

Brian M
29th July 2009, 09:04 PM
Hi Bet

I couldnt agree more its a big plus if a Cavalier is cosmetically beautiful (but then they all are ) to look at and its a bigger plus if they are healthy as well and pass all the SM and MVD tests that are now so urgently needed.

sins
29th July 2009, 09:38 PM
If anyone uses that letter as a template I hope they correct the spelling mistakes first!
I'm not sure how any of that is relevant to the cavalier world.
A Judge can only make a call on what (s)he sees on the day.If any judge can make a diagnosis of a neurological or metabolic illness simply by laying hands on the dog, then I think Jemima Harrison might make actually a documentary about them instead of the dogs, and we could all tune into the Discovery channel and watch the endless repeats!:p
Sins

Bet
30th July 2009, 10:26 AM
Thanks Folks, for agreeing with my thoughts about this.

I have now written to the Kennel Club about the matter, here is a wee bit of what I have written.

I mentioned that I could only speak on behalf of Cavaliers ,that there Two Serious Problems afflicting Cavaliers MVD and SM.

That 50% of Cavaliers will have a Heart Murmur at 5 years of age,this means that of the 11,000 Cavaliers registered by the KC last year ,approx 6,000 could have a Heart Murmur in 5 years time.

That the KC have said that MVD is the Cavalier Breed's biggest Killer, also the UK CKCS CLUB have recently said that MVD is the No1 Health Priority within the Breed.

I then mentioned SM ,( but unfortunately I don't have figures for it like what I have for MVD)

I then asked the KC ,will Heart Testing be being carried out at Dog Shows ,to make sure that Cavaliers have no sign of Heart Trouble ,.....will a Cavalier ,before he or she is made up to be a Champion ,be Heart Tested to make sure they are not suffering from MVD,that this might help in the fight against the MVD problem in Cavaliers.

I also mentioned that the Cardiologist at the recent CKCS CLUB AGM said that the MVD Problem was no better than it was 18 years ago, and I wondered if this was because many Cavalier Breeders who are involved in the Show Scene are not following the CKCS CLUB's
Breeding Guidelines for combating the MVD Problem that are recommended by the Researchers and Cardiologists ,not to breed from a Cavalier before 2.6 years of age ,this is seen in the KC Breed Supplements.

Finally I asked ,how can Cavaliers be Rewarded at Dog Shows if they are not HEALTHY !

PS ,Had no Reply yet .

Bet(Hargreaves)

sins
30th July 2009, 11:14 AM
Good luck with the letter Bet.Hopefully it'll keep the pressure on to introduce the KC/BVA scheme for MVD as quickly as possible.
I know I've said this before that there had been a general acceptance that MVD was just the "breed standard" heart murmur.This is how my vet described it to me when diagnosing a poorly foster dog a while back.
The same complacency must not be allowed to set in where Syringomyelia is concerned and noone should accept that SM in some dogs is merely an "anatomical feature" as one correspondent wrote in a letter to Dogworld recently.In Humans SM is a disability and the quality if life is impaired,sometimes profoundly.
There are many schemes in place,from the cavalier clubs' low cost scans,MVD screening at shows and now the AHT's EBV scheme.Of course there will be those who won't comply with testing but hopefully as more and more dedicated breeders have had a chance to benefit from the testing tools available,and if they can get good results,this might be the best incentive to inspire others to follow.
I'm sure there will always be a few hardcore Luddites out there who reject the use of medical and scientific technology out of hand, but it seems that the focus on canine health is not going away any time soon.
I'm not sure what can be done to deal with the lower strata of cavalier breeder....puppy farmers....they're worse than a dose of MRSA.
Sins

Bet
30th July 2009, 12:24 PM
Thanks Sins,

This is exactly what I feel about SM,if Cavalier Breeders don't get to grips with it , it could go the same way as the MVD Problem in Cavaliers has done.

As you say the focus on Canine Health will never go away now, this is Thanks to Jemima Harrison and her PDE TV FILM.

There always have been and always will be some Cavalier Breeders who will bury their Heads in the Sand about the Health Problems in our Breed,

At a CKCS AGM a number of years ago , a few Cavalier Breeders made a noise ,asking ,give us the Proof about the Heart Trouble in the Breed .

As we say in Scotland ,

WEEL THEY KEN NOO !!!

Hopefully the same won't be said about the Cavalier SM Problem.

Bet( Hargreaves)

sins
30th July 2009, 12:29 PM
From this morning's Dogworld on line.


THE KENNEL Club has completed the allocation of CCs for 2012 except for German Shepherds – and it is refusing to do so until certain matters are resolved ‘within the GSD fraternity’.


I have to go and lie down,I never believed something like this would happen ....:eek:

Claire L
30th July 2009, 12:38 PM
Forgive me if I'm being a bit THICK here, but wouldn't it be much simpler if all dogs/bitches entering any show ring had to have the relevant health certificates showing that they are indeed currently healthy and up to date on heart checks etc????

Bet
30th July 2009, 12:38 PM
I rest my case !!!

The result of the PDF TV FILM ????

Bet( Hargreaves)

Brian M
30th July 2009, 12:43 PM
Hi

I see on another site theres a post with ref to a court decison in Canada which refers to a breeder suing a pet owner for slanderous comments posted on an internet forum/s ,the court ruled in favour of the breeder but it is now going to appeal with the help of animal support groups .I know it would depend on numerous factors but I am sure I can hear a lot of breeders rubbing there hands with delight but then again it could make some look harder at themselves after all we the pet owners are the consumers .:xctly:

sins
30th July 2009, 01:21 PM
wouldn't it be much simpler if all dogs/bitches entering any show ring had to have the relevant health certificates showing that they are indeed currently healthy and up to date on heart checks etc

In practice it would be difficult and expensive to implement, most puppies enter the showring at six months +, and at that stage it'd be a very rare thing to find a puppy of that age with MVD or SM.
A champion can be made up at a very young age and be heart clear and free of SM at say age two and by the age of four it could have both MVD and SM.
There's a risk that imposing such a strict criteria for entering the showring would put many of the smaller breeders out of business including the ones who show great committment to testing and put off new people from starting out.

Claire L
30th July 2009, 01:48 PM
In practice it would be difficult and expensive to implement, most puppies enter the showring at six months +, and at that stage it'd be a very rare thing to find a puppy of that age with MVD or SM.



I understand that bit alright but I'm talking about dogs/bitches who are old enough to be bred from .




There's a risk that imposing such a strict criteria for entering the showring would put many of the smaller breeders out of business including the ones who show great committment to testing and put off new people from starting out.


Surely, we want ALL Cavalier breeders to show great commitment to testing ?

I'm confused here so please forgive me BUT I don't understand why any breeder who doesn't carry out all the health checks should be in business let alone allowed to enter a showring.

Brian M
30th July 2009, 02:00 PM
Hi sins

So the least that can be done is to ensure that the young puppies parents where only bred from at the recommended ages and that they went through all the necessary health checks before breeding.

sins
30th July 2009, 03:56 PM
Yes, we want all cavalier breeders to show great committment to health testing.I can't honestly see that there's any surefire way to compel breeders to do this though.
Unless breeders see the benefit for themselves and for the dogs, then there's no incentive to change.
I think one of the simplest ways for cavalier pet owners to effect change is to support the breeders who are trying to make a decent stab at getting to grips with health issues.
Sins

Bet
30th July 2009, 04:50 PM
This will put the Cat amongst the Pidgeons !!

How about as has happened to the GSD ,??

No CC's till there is an improvement in the MVD problem in our Cavaliers.

Just had word back from a Scandinavian Researcher in Cavaliers' MVD Problem, mentioning that it is a big problem in Scandinavian Countries.

That the problem is no doubt predisposed by Genetics.

That all affected Cavaliers share common Genetic Features that has been inherited through Generations. This could tie in with what I have mentioned , that Cavaliers were known to have Heart Trouble as far back as the 1940's.

The reply I have just received said that hopefully ,through the Research going on in the Scandinavian Countries the Researchers will be able to identify the Genes underlying the Disease and provide methods for improving the Health Status in the Cavaliers.

There were Cavaliers exported from Britain to those Scandinavian Countries from I think the mid to late 1950's, so will have presumably the same MVD Genes as the Cavaliers here in Britain.

Bet(Hargreaves)

team bella
30th July 2009, 05:46 PM
Forgive me if I'm being a bit THICK here, but wouldn't it be much simpler if all dogs/bitches entering any show ring had to have the relevant health certificates showing that they are indeed currently healthy and up to date on heart checks etc????

Exactly, I just can't believe that this is not getting through. I dispair :bang::bang::bang::bang:

Bet
1st August 2009, 11:21 AM
Can I go back to this Thread,we who are so concerned about the Health our Cavalier Breed, are constantly being accused of.... do as I say, do as you are told by me,

All we Lovers of our Cavalier Breed are trying to do do is improve the Health of Cavaliers, it's the Researchers who have given Cavalier Breeding Guidelines in the Battle against the Health Problems in the Cavalier Breed,the Tradgedy of this ,it is being ignored by some Cavalier Breeders.

Bet( Hargreaves)