PDA

View Full Version : Mvd in cavalier king charles spaniels.



Bet
4th August 2009, 12:56 PM
I have just had word back from one of the Researchers in Denmark into the MVD Problem in our Cavalier Breed.

The Inheritance of MVD is most likely Polygenic ,this means as was explained to me ,that there are several Genes involved .

It was also mentioned that it would be very nice to get a better idea about Inheritance ,however ,that would require very detailed Clinical Information on a Large Number of Animals

The Researcher said that with the Tools they have at Hand noe ,it is easier to look for the Genes underlying the Disease.

I had asked about the Heart Problem being known about in the 1940's -50's etc in Cavaliers

and that Cavaliers were being exported from Britain, from the 1950's, her answer was , the Disease might very well go as far back as the 1940's and most likely all Cavaliers around the World with the Disease carry the same Mutations.

Those Mutations have to be found ,then the information could ensure an Improvement in the Problem,

Now, we do know that the Cavalier Heart Problem has been in Cavaliers for at least 60 years,but what about the Cavaliers' SM Problem,it has appeared in so many other Countries, but when was it first seen, I think it's been mentioned here in Britain in the early 1980's, is it like the MVD Problem, are the Cavaliers World Wide carrying the same Mutations.

Hopefully the SM Research in Canada will discover this, but in the meantime ,it has to be upto the Cavalier Breeders to have Health Tests carried out on their Breeding Stock for both those Two Conditions.

If Cavalier Breeders won't co-operate in doing this ,then will Mandatory Health Testing be the only answer for the Future of Cavaliers.

Some Cavalier Breeders have claimed about being in the Cavalier Breed for 30 plus years, so what have they been doing wrong to have allowed the Cavalier Breed be in the mess it's in to-day.

Bet(Hargreaves)

sins
4th August 2009, 01:37 PM
Thanks for sharing that information on MVD Bet.
I don't think it's a case Bet of breeders doing something wrong to have arrived at the situation we find today.I very much doubt the breeding practices were any different than that of other breeders with different breeds.
SM until recently was an obscure human condition and veterinary medicine did not have routine access to diagnostic equipment to diagnose SM in cavaliers.I can't imagine vets who would have seen SM in the 1980's could even have guessed what caused the symptoms.Mri was scarcely available for humans back then,never mind dogs!
Many cavalier folk as you like to call them;) still cannot accept that SM is a serious condition and is widespread throughout the population.It's something you wrestled with yourself for a while.
The answer lies in looking to the future, advances in biotechnology and research.It seems that the solution is still some way down the road and that research is still at the data gathering phase for EBV, be that scanning or swabs etc...
Not everyone is willing to participate but if breeders don't wish to I can't see that forcing them to is the answer.
There are many pet owners out there with dogs who have excellent pedigrees.Maybe by expanding Mri schemes to pet owners who are willing to help with research you can fill in the gaps left by breeders who don't wish to submit their own stock for scans.
Sins

Bet
4th August 2009, 03:34 PM
All I know is Dr P Darke ,Cardiologist ,warned the Cavalier Breeders here in Britain over 25 years ago about the serious MVD Problem afflicting Cavaliers, Dr B Cattanach ,Geneticist, and Bruce Field, the UK CKCS CLUB Health representative, ,around 20 years ago were trying to help the UK CKCS CLUB get to grips with the MVD ,but walked away in disgust at the abuse they were getting from some Cavalier Breeders.

So yes,I do blame many Cavalier Breeders here in Britain for the Wide-Spread MVD Problem in our Breed to-day,

Is History going to be repeating it-self with the SM Problem in the Breed?

Why are some Cavalier Breeders saying they are not going to be taking part in the EBV Scheme?

Is it Bloody -Mindedness ?

Bet( Hargreaves)

Margaret C
4th August 2009, 05:16 PM
There are many pet owners out there with dogs who have excellent pedigrees.Maybe by expanding Mri schemes to pet owners who are willing to help with research you can fill in the gaps left by breeders who don't wish to submit their own stock for scans.
Sins

A wonderful idea.
MRI results from any cavalier with Kennel Club registration papers would give so much information to the researchers.

Bet
4th August 2009, 06:48 PM
Could this idea some-how get started.

Any thoughts on how it could be done. ?

Bet(Hargreaves)

harleyfarley
4th August 2009, 06:55 PM
This is what ive been going on about from the beginning, if we take mvd as something to go by, why wait until sm is as bad as mvd was, lets push to get something setup where by breeders will be forced to follow some sort of regeme, even if its only a form to say this dog bred with this bitch, the following pups (chip no's etc,) and get them scanned when they are old enough and so on. On the form could be the parents chip no.s, their kc numbers etc, plus there results from tests for mvd, sm, etc. If all it does if give people information about whose dogs have what in their past, people can make a informed decision about where to spend their money when buying a pet. Over the years a picture will emerge, and some breeders could loose their registration and others could be recommended with a list of the best and the results. di

sins
4th August 2009, 07:07 PM
I suppose the easiest place to start would be with pet owners who already have had their cavaliers scanned and have not submitted the results to the AHT for inclusion in the EBV scheme.
There must be pet owners out there with copies of scan results lying in a drawer or filing cabinet in the UK and Ireland.
Am I correct in assuming Margaret that the neurologists who carry out scanning don't automatically send their data to the AHT?
For example Di, do you know if your scan result was sent?
Sins

harleyfarley
4th August 2009, 07:44 PM
he had it done at the animal health trust, the bit that annoyed me was they didnt ask if he parents were scanned or any of his siblings, i know the breeder had he mum and dad and although they dont have sm as far as we know, surely scanning the parents and any siblings would give them an idea how dogs with no sm can produce dogs with cm which progresses to sm, ie, will have develop sm, i know dogs with cm will produce puppies which will have sm i would have thought it would be good to see if either parent has cm or any sm and if the other 4 dogs and 1 bitch have it. di

Evelyn
4th August 2009, 08:44 PM
I think, you will be able to submit results as an individual,sending copy of scan result and pedigree plus heart test result if available. The researchers will be able to cross match with their records to see if other relatives are scanned . If they are it will build on the information they have and help breeders in the future.

Margaret C
5th August 2009, 01:08 AM
I suppose the easiest place to start would be with pet owners who already have had their cavaliers scanned and have not submitted the results to the AHT for inclusion in the EBV scheme.
There must be pet owners out there with copies of scan results lying in a drawer or filing cabinet in the UK and Ireland.
Am I correct in assuming Margaret that the neurologists who carry out scanning don't automatically send their data to the AHT?
For example Di, do you know if your scan result was sent?
Sins

The neurologists at the AHT & other referral centres that do full body MRIs, and those running the low cost 'mini' MRIs are not yet able to send the results to Sarah Blott.

I don't think this will change until they bring in the planned official scheme run by the Briish Veterinary Association and the Kennel Club.

Sending in copies of the results, whether it is a certificate or a report sent to your vet would really be one of the most important things any pet owner with a Kennel Club registered cavalier could do to help fight SM.

I don't think non-registered dogs can be used as there would be no way of building up their family tree.

As Evelyn said, heart testing results would also help the EBV.

Bet
5th August 2009, 10:06 AM
Just wondering ,why can't the MRI Scan Results be being sent to Dr Blott at the moment ,what's the reason having to wait for the BVA and KC.

I was at the SM Seminar here in Scotland in April, where Dr Blott Mentioned that they were only getting a Trickle of MRI Scans. They need about 1,000.

Has Mr Skerritt not got about that number , so why does he not pass them onto Dr Blott.?

Bet(Hargreaves)

Margaret C
5th August 2009, 07:35 PM
Just wondering ,why can't the MRI Scan Results be being sent to Dr Blott at the moment ,what's the reason having to wait for the BVA and KC.

I was at the SM Seminar here in Scotland in April, where Dr Blott Mentioned that they were only getting a Trickle of MRI Scans. They need about 1,000.

Has Mr Skerritt not got about that number , so why does he not pass them onto Dr Blott.?

Bet(Hargreaves)

I think that written permission is needed to pass on such information, and many of the existing certificates do not have the owner's signature giving that permission.

Geoff Skerritt at Chestergate and the Robinson's at Dovecote do have a box where the owners sign to agree the results can be used for research, but I do not know whether that is sufficient to allow those centres to pass the information to the EBV scheme.

There may be a problem in that, if the owner did not breed the dog, the release of the information would also have implications for the owners and/or breeders of that cavalier's sire and dam.

It is possible some breeders would not want to release information that could lead to accurate breeding values of their dogs being included in Sarah's scheme.

I believe it is intended the BV/KC certificate, which will be used by everyone when the official scheme starts, will require owners to agree the information is automatically made available to the researchers.

Bet
6th August 2009, 12:24 PM
Have you any idea when the KC/ BVA Scheme could be making a start , or is the Data Protection Act holding things up.?

Another thought Iv'e had ,will the EBV Scheme be useful or will the the Genes for SM and MVD have to be found first.

Bet(Hargreaves)

Margaret C
6th August 2009, 11:46 PM
Have you any idea when the KC/ BVA Scheme could be making a start , or is the Data Protection Act holding things up.?

Another thought Iv'e had ,will the EBV Scheme be useful or will the the Genes for SM and MVD have to be found first.

Bet(Hargreaves)

I don't know what progress has been made. The neurologists were quick off the mark with their preliminary meeting but no news since.
Perhaps Jeff Sampson ( for those that don't know, he is the Kennel Club genetics advisor) could give you some idea of progress.

The EBV programme has the potential to be a wonderful help, if the breeders will use it.
The information from MRI scans & heart testing will make the EBV programme worthwhile, but it will be even more accurate when the Canadian geneticists find the SM & MVD genes.

Margaret C
7th August 2009, 12:08 AM
There are many pet owners out there with dogs who have excellent pedigrees.Maybe by expanding Mri schemes to pet owners who are willing to help with research you can fill in the gaps left by breeders who don't wish to submit their own stock for scans.
Sins

Just to say that Mark Marshall, one of the new members here has posted about a scanning day he is organising.

I understand these have been very well organised events. http://board.cavaliertalk.com/showthread.php?t=31386