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msunter
11th August 2009, 10:16 PM
Hi All,

I don't come on the board very often, however I felt the need to speak to other Cav owners out there today.

Our tri Rio will be 3 years old next week and over the last four weeks he has had a poorly tummy due to Colitis. It got so bad one night two weeks ago that while my parents were away in Tunisia that my sister and I were up and down to the garden 6 times in one night as he had mucusy string diahorrea and passing blood. We took him to the vets the next day as the blood was becoming more seen through the loose stools and they told us it could be also down to stress with my parents being away which is not true as they go on holiday and he is always fine.

They gave us Salazoprine tablets (1st course was 6 tablets). He finished these and was litteraly back to normal stool wise within 3 days and back to his bouncy self. After my parents returned at least a week after the same symptoms returned again, this time he could not hold his bowels and emptied on the rug. We luckily had a sample bottle and my Mum immediately took him to the vet along with the sample. The results came back as Colitis as the definite cause and they re-issued us with the same Salazoprine tablets (2nd course - 10 tablets)

They seemed to work up until he finished the course last week and we thought he was back on the road to recovery, however last night he had 2 colitis attacks between 2am-5am. It is so sad, as he desperately thrashes on the door to gain entry to our rooms and as I am a light sleeper I always hear him trotting around desperately until I can take him to the garden. We are all losing sleep and are worrying so much. My grandparents have been watching him this afternoon, taking him out to the garden when he has needed the toilet. Which he has went to 6 times today !

These tablets only seem to work for a week then its back to square one all over again and it just isn't fair on our poor pup to keep having this on and off.

Do any of your Cavs have this problem and if so what actions did your vets take other than this tablet?

PS: We also had to cut all treats out for 4 weeks and switched him from dentasticks to Royal Canin oral bars (10kg) size, to rule out any dog biscuits that coukd cause the tummy upsets. He is also on Burns dry mix, Chappie and has boiled fresh vegetables which he adores.

So we are just so confused as to how this keeps happening.

msunter
11th August 2009, 10:19 PM
Our vets are the best in the area and always great to react when there has been more serious issues in the past (bee stings)

It just seems that lately we are going back and forth and not receiving any other medication or alternate advice to help him, we are currently looking for a second opinion.

pippa
11th August 2009, 10:36 PM
Not sure if this helps but I went through 2 years of this with Pippin before I discovered he had a severe allergy to chicken and poultry.

I now feed him James wellbeloved lamb and rice and make sure no treats have poultry of any sort in them.

I recently had the problem resurface when I gave him his usual wormer and didn't realise that they had decided to add a chicken flavour to it.

I'm not saying the same thing would be wrong with your cav but the allergy thing may be something to check out. It will mean being quite restrictive with the diet until the culprit is found. The only way I know was that every time he got sick we were giving him chicken and rice and after a while I started to notice a pattern as he got more and more allergic to the chicken,from having it so often both on it own and in foods that we were told to try him on. One day after a really bad bout I put two and two together and suggested to my vet that I thought it was the chicken making him worse instead of better. We stopped it straight away but did have the odd set back when ingrediants in foods and treats were not checked.

frecklesmom
11th August 2009, 11:21 PM
Do the Vets have specialty foods? I would think a low residue diet would help as his bowel is surely inflammed and , I believe, it takes quite a while for that to calm down. He may have to forego his regular diet completely for a time to get his GI tract settled.

MARK MARSHALL
12th August 2009, 12:17 AM
At our kennels we have the occasional dog with Colitis but we recommend and feed VITALIN SENSITIVE. lamb and Rice, being Hypo etc and Gluten free. Not the cheapest by far, but it works and we very rarely get loose poos.

It is well worth a try.

Good Luck, Mark.

Cathy T
12th August 2009, 12:52 AM
Not sure if this helps but I went through 2 years of this with Pippin before I discovered he had a severe allergy to chicken and poultry.




That was my first thought....an allergy problem. Jake had bad tummy problems as a puppy. He's just recently been through a bout of vomitting. I ended up feeding him a homemade fish and potato diet (50% whitefish, 25% potato and 25% yams) for two weeks that has been gentle on his tummy....and it's worked.

Karlin
12th August 2009, 01:01 AM
Also wondering about foecal retesting as it is not uncommon for the real problem to be missed on a single testing. Could be a virus, colitis, hemorrhagic gastroentiritis (which can become very serious very quickly), worms, allergies. I'd move to a quality food designed for sensitive stomach/allergies -- eg try James Wellbeloved or a Burns food. Watch out about treats too as people change foods but then forget about ingredients in treats.

lorebringer
12th August 2009, 09:44 AM
My Cav lady is prone to colitis, it flares up every so often and we are in and out of the vets. Sometimes it last maybe a week and others it can be for up to six weeks. She tends to be put onto anti inflams and, if needed, an antibiotic, and unfortunately it really can be a waiting game until the inflammation in her colon goes down. My vet has told me that this can often be the case (initial treatment, or long term if needed, and then waiting for their bodies to sort if out). Stool samples have been taken a few times and each time it comes back "colitis" or "colitis due to infection" (thus the need for antibiotics). My lady eats fine while she is having a bad bout but she can be a bit miserable and cranky (esp with my other dogs) though.

I have found that what is key for her is food. Having tried nearly everything out there Royal Canin Sensitivity is my conclusive favourite, it's miricle food for her. She does so well on it while she is unwell and I tend to keep her on it for a while afterwards too, then wean her back onto her normal food (Origen or Arden Grange). It is the best stuff I have found, it's free from grain and other allergens and she loves it. I don't keep her on it all of the time because she does well on her regular food when her belly is good and if she does get a bout I want to have something gentle to give her. I have a neighbour whose dog has IBD and she swears by it too (her dog is on it all of the time). It's def worth a try.

Also, beause my lady has a sensitive belly she tends to pick up bugs a bit more readily than my other dogs, which can then lead to a bout of colitis. Just minor infections from the grass out on walks (and people not picking up their dogs poo :mad:) so we do watch what she chomps on while we are out. She doesn't eat poo but if it is left lingering in the grass for a while the bugs get into the grass. I cannot count the number of times my vets have said they see dogs with infections they pick up from walks etc.

Hope Rio feels better soon :)

sins
12th August 2009, 09:47 AM
I'd certainly go with gluten free lamb and rice food, Arden Grange was one that I've always been pleased with.Also you could try adding probiotics which are great for balancing the intestinal flora. You an order probiotics for you dog on line, it's just a powder that you can add to their food.
Sins

Margaret C
12th August 2009, 10:39 AM
I'd certainly go with gluten free lamb and rice food, Arden Grange was one that I've always been pleased with.Also you could try adding probiotics which are great for balancing the intestinal flora. You an order probiotics for you dog on line, it's just a powder that you can add to their food.
Sins


What is the powder called?

I buy the pro-kolin paste for the occasional dodgy tummys , but would think the powder would probably be less expensive if you want to give something long term?

sins
12th August 2009, 11:42 AM
You could combine the two Margaret,

http://www.vetuk.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=249

I think Pauline bought the powder for Dylan, but I'm not sure how it worked for them, but she can tell you where she bought it from.
Obviously if there's a severe outbreak of colitis,the vet is the first port of call for antibiotics.
I've probably said this before,but a few years ago I became seriously ill after becoming infected with Clostridia Difficile (hospital acquired infection).
Flagyl only dampened down the colitis and it flared up again after stopping the flagyl.The cure came from probiotics, freeze dried bacteria in capsules which restored the normal balance of bacteria in the gut and outcompeted the clostridia.I had made a full and permanent recovery within ten days.
there are many published papers now re: probiotics for dogs.
For anyone who has a dog who has frequent outbreaks of colitis, it may be worth a try to give a low dose of probiotic in the dog's food and see if it makes a difference.
Sins

*Pauline*
12th August 2009, 12:01 PM
What is the powder called?

I buy the pro-kolin paste for the occasional dodgy tummys , but would think the powder would probably be less expensive if you want to give something long term?

Sins recommended Synbiotic D-C made by the same people who make Pro-Kolin. Pro-Kolin is a pre biotic, Synbiotic D-C is a probiotic and prebiotic.

I just searched for the definition Sinead gave a while ago and here it is.


Prebiotics are a kind of fibre that trigger the growth of beneficial bacteria in the large intestine.
Probiotics are actual live bacteria contained in the food we eat. They can (sometimes)remain intact throughout the digestive process, and make it to the large intesting where they grow and flourish and help regulate the intestines.

I have actually staved of diarrhea by giving these pills as soon as I saw the first signs. You can give daily or when needed.

You can buy it here. (http://www.vetuk.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1176)

*Pauline*
12th August 2009, 12:02 PM
I see Sinead beat me to it. What would we do without Sinead :flwr:

MishathePooh
12th August 2009, 01:18 PM
Do not feed any veg (or anything with fiber) to a dog with active colitis as it will irritate the intestines. Colitis is just an inflammation of the colon. You have not indicated if the vet has said if it was infectious (caused by a pathogen) or autoimmune (caused by the dog's own system attacking itself).

Definitely give the probiotics a try.

*Pauline*
12th August 2009, 02:58 PM
Do not feed any veg (or anything with fiber) to a dog with active colitis as it will irritate the intestines.

I've always found Chappie, which is high in fiber to help colitis perhaps, I am doing the wrong thing? I've found rice to not help at all, it switches diarrhea to constipation.

MARK MARSHALL
12th August 2009, 03:20 PM
My VETS always say starve a meal and then try something like Pro-kolin+
which has always worked for us.

We have also used DIGESTIVE biscuits followed by Egg and Rice and then Egg and Chicken.

Im sure that Vitalin Sensitive also contains Pre-biotic Fos, something or other ?

All I can say is that we dont have Loose tummies for very long.

Mark.

msunter
12th August 2009, 09:04 PM
Thank you for all the helpful replies.

Rio's stool sample results did come back as autoimmune caused by the dog's own system attacking itself and not by an unknown pathogen.

The vets have also given us advice such as feeding him a little bran flakes in the morning which he loves in order to give more solidity to the stools, which does work. The veg also works and he has not yet been constipated with the colitis.

If in the case of dodgy stomachs, we can NEVER give him products with chicken, lamb, beef or fish products as he has been tested for all these allergies and they do affect him. His diet is so bland its almost like cardboard for him on a daily basis :(

Pasta always seems to work in settling his stomach if he has ever had a bad case as he won't touch rice.

We have tried probiotics, but this just gave him explosive diahorrea and he really was losing his controls on his bowels even more when he was on them.

Dentasticks are also a big no no now and the only other treat he does receive is the Burns dry chicken and brown rice kibble as treats and 1 Royal Canin oral bar. No other treats are given during the day now. Along with the dry kibble he has 2 spoonfuls of chappie meat as this is best with dogs who have digestive problems. We have also starved him of a meal until he feels better and then introduce food a little later in the day when he does have a bad bout.

His previous foods he has been tried on were Hills Science Plan, James Wellbeloved and Royal Canin and all did not agree with him until we switched him to Burns. We even went and check all treats that family members try to give him and they are always confiscated or passed onto our neighbours dog.

Here is his daily diet:

Breakfast: Half a cup of Branflakes

Lunchtime treat: A small handful of Burns dry kibble

Dinnertime: 2-3 spoonfuls of chappie meat and Burns dry chicken and brown rice

Supper treat: 1 oral Royal Canin bar

We are going back to the vets on Friday as my parents have decided to find out if there is alternative treatment for him, as we have taken on board alot of the advice and nothing is working and we would hate to think he was in an uncomfortable pain with the colitis or we were making it worse for him by trying all these different methods. He is only 3 and he has been like this since the age of 2.

As well as the stools being mucusy there is also blood coming away from the rectal area but only happens once or twice.

Thank you for all your support

Karlin
12th August 2009, 09:54 PM
the only other treat he does receive is the Burns dry chicken and brown rice kibble as treats

But isn't he allergic to chicken? Maybe this is your issue right there.

If he has tested allergic to chicken he shouldn't be getting anything at all with chicken in it or poultry or poultry by-products etc.

I'd perhaps be trying something like James Wellbeloved Duck or turkey, or a Burns unusual protein. There's detail on food allergy diets from UC Davis vet school in the health library section. Also I'd be considering perhaps a raw diet -- often dogs with a lot of problems like tis do far far better on a raw diet.

Also I wonder if he has been tried for grain allergy problems -- eg maybe the bran flakes are causing problems? Also: what protein/grain is in the Royal Canin bar?

zooplus.co.uk have a good range of special foods that will be delivered if there isn't an alternative Burns or JWB protein source -- I just think if you have found he has definitely tested with a chicken & fish allergy, the fact that he's getting a chicken kibble twice daily and Chappie -- which has fish, chicken and cereals ---- to me would suggest this is very possibly why he has chronic recurring problems.

I'd actually not consider this a bland diet but one that has a lot of different stuff any part of which could be causing problems -- eg one that might be more prone to causing than helping problems, though it might to us look a bit bland. :thmbsup: To me a bland diet would be a very plain non-allergenic kibble, and that would be abut it for feeding; definitely not adding in possible allergy ingredients like wheat (with the bran), or chicken in the dry kibble and the wet food.

I'd maybe consider getting him to a gastric specialist at whatever vet school is closest, too? You may need the help of a specialist to put him through a proper strict elimination diet for allergies and explore what is going on.

Karlin
12th August 2009, 09:58 PM
Allergy link from the health library:

http://www.board.cavaliertalk.com/showthread.php?t=17749

pippa
13th August 2009, 12:32 AM
"If in the case of dodgy stomachs, we can NEVER give him products with chicken, lamb, beef or fish products as he has been tested for all these allergies and they do affect him."

If he has a known allergy to chicken,it could be the burns food that is causing the colitis to recur often as it doesn't really matter if it's dried or not usually. As I mentioned in my previous post,my Pippin has a chicken allergy and recently he got a recurance of colitis because Drontal is now flavoued with chicken and I hadn't realised this. I do understand how hard this is for you, I went through the mill with Pippin.


"Dinnertime: 2-3 spoonfuls of chappie meat and Burns dry chicken and brown rice"

Years ago when my daughter was a baby -She's now 21 and doing fine with no allergies:) -she developed an intolerence to lactose after a short illness. The hospital were baffled as to why she was still having problems when they changed her to a soya based milk product. When the consultant was with her one day I had the nerve(to the dismay of the sister in charge) to bring up the fact that they were feeding her a spoonfed mixture for breakfast which may be the cause. I was dismissed by the sister but the consultant asked to see the packet. They insisted it was milk free and that I was causing a fuss. It was indeed milk free but when the consultant read the ingredients there was lactose in it disguised in something else! The consultant thanked me, and my daughter was sent home the following day and never looked back. She is not lactose intolerent now after a long time being weaned back on to cow's milk but can't tolerate too much dairy. Sorry to bore you with my story but it goes to show that ingredients need to be double checked.

Although in the case of the Burns food it clearly states chicken:confused:

Maybe I misread but did you not mention chicken allergy above or is that only when Rio is poorly that he is sensitive to it?

dellis
13th August 2009, 05:46 PM
hi
i have been reading with interest the discussion on colitis. one of my cavs, daisy, had colitis as a young puppy and it settled down eventually with lots of pro kolin and a change of food onto royal cainin sensitivity control. i have been feeding the two dogs with that ever since with no problems with daisy and only very very occasional probs with macy. i got to wondering after reading the posts if this is the right thing for them to have this all the time or should i try to wean them onto a more 'normal' food? i would be interested in what anyone thinks.
thanks