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EddyAnne
11th August 2009, 11:43 PM
It was just a matter of time till the documentary appeared on television in Australia and the following from this address.
http://www.dogsvictoria.org.au/assets/pdf/ankc-pedigree-dogs-exposed.pdf

Notice to Members
Victorian Canine Association Inc
trading as DOGS Victoria

7 August 2009
Re: FROM THE ANKC

The BBC Documentary “Pedigree Dogs Exposed” will be shown in Australia on September 10th. Members are now asking what the ANKC is doing to prevent negative publicity such as occurred after the program was screened in the UK.

Our first action was to publish the "ANKC Vision for the Health and Welfare of Pedigree Dogs" which was sent to a wide range of people in Government, Welfare Agencies and the Media. Most Member Bodies have reproduced it in their Journals or provided links to it. It can be viewed on the ANKC Website under HEALTH & WELFARE and is the basis for our defence against the program.

Our second action was to appoint an ANKC Public Relations Officer (Dr Peter Higgins) for a 4 month contract leading up to and after the screening of the program, with the intent of reducing the impact of any fallout. He will make a series of Press Releases going to over 2,500 media outlets and has already made a number of TV & Radio appearances and has fielded a large number of media inquiries. His details and Press Releases can be found on the ANKC Website under MEDIA.

In relation to the program we are involved in two projects instigated by the ABC.

Dr Jonica Newby is making a documentary for "Catalyst". She has done extensive interviews with breeders, Sydney University, the RSPCA and others interested in Animal Welfare. We believe her focus will be on the changes to breed standards and inbreeding. I am scheduled to do an interview with her.

Immediately after the screening of the BBC Program there will be an online discussion panel and Karen Hedberg and I will be representing the ANKC.

We were asked by both Sydney University and the RSPCA to meet with them to discuss the program.

The University will be highlighting the work we are doing with them on Disease Surveillance.

We have had two meetings with the RSPCA. They have issues over inbreeding and the change in standards but now have a better understanding of what we are doing in the area of Canine Health & Welfare.

Hugh Gent OAM
President
Australian National Kennel Council
Website: www.ankc.org.au

DOGS Victoria (03) 9788 2500 office@dogsvictoria.org.au
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Karlin
12th August 2009, 12:26 AM
Thanks for that!

Very interesting to see their strategy laid out so bluntly -- if I were their media adviser I sure would have told them not to mail out something like this with that much detail let slip :rolleyes:. I'd think four months' salary -- which will be a considerable sum -- also would have been better spent on actual breed health initiatives though?

Bet
12th August 2009, 09:25 AM
Unfortunately I did slate the PDE TV Film at the start when it was shown here in Britain.

Then I started to think about it, and realized that if it had'nt been for Jemima Harrison and the Film, would any notice ever have been taken by the Powers That Be of the Health Problems in Pedigree Dogs.

You can Bet Your Bottom Dollar, that no Notice would ever have been Taken, infact the Heath Problems would hardly even have been acknowledged.

Lip Service Paid to them, but it was the result of the Program the Pedigree Dog Health Problems were brought to the fore.

OH YES, this that the other is now being done, but where were all the Dog Breeders in the Past when we Heart Broken Pet Owners were ,and I will mention our Cavalier Breed once again,trying to get through to Cavalier Breeders around 20 years ago
and more ,about the Cavaliers dying at a young age from Heart Trouble.

An Eminant Cavalier Person in the UK Hierarchy even wrote a number of years ago in a Cavalier Magazine , that all this talk about something being wrong with the Cavaliers Hearts was just Rubbish, that they were only panting at Shows because the Weather would be warm. !!!!!

So I will say again Thank You Jemima Harrison, and on behalf of other Cavalier Pet Owners,
to the others in the TV FILM who brought the SM and MVD Problems to the Fore.

Bet(Hargreaves)

EddyAnne
19th August 2009, 07:34 AM
The TV documentary is now being listed on the Australian ABC Network for national broadcasting.

Firstly on ABC the science program called Catalyst 8:00pm Thursday, 10 Sep 2009 they mentioned besides other things in the program they will include "previewing the documentary 'Pedigree Dogs Exposed'".

After that Catalyst program the ABC will broadcast "Pedigree Dogs Exposed" at 8:30pm Thursday, 10 Sep 2009, and the following from this address.
http://www.abc.net.au/tv/guide/netw/200909/programs/ZX0154A001D10092009T203000.htm

A shocking investigation into the health and welfare of pedigree dogs.

Two years in the making, Pedigree Dogs Exposed lifts the lid on the extent of health and welfare problems in pedigree dogs, caused by decades of inbreeding and breeding primarily for 'beauty' rather than health and function.

For millennia, man has shaped the dog to his own needs... to hunt, retrieve, herd, guard and comfort. But in 1873, with the foundation of the British Kennel Club, everything changed.

Instead of being bred for purpose, dogs began to be moulded purely for their looks and for success in the show ring. Today, many breeds have been so exaggerated that they are unrecognisable from the fit and functional animals of a century ago.

Now for the first time the extent of the situation - perpetuated by the 100 countries worldwide that have adopted the British Kennel Club system, including Australia - is captured on film.

The Kennel Club was born out of the eugenics movement, the idea that 'improvement' came through racial purity. Dogs were divided into individual breeds and allowed to breed only with each other. Even though it is scientifically proven that inbreeding causes terrible problems, Kennel Clubs still hold 'purity' as sacrosanct.

Supported by strong testimony from top experts, the film argues that - without radical reform - many of our best-loved breeds face extinction.

An online forum will be held after the program has aired, discussing the issues raised in the film and the relevance for Australia's dogs:
http://www.abc.net.au/tv/documentaries/

Catalyst will broadcast Jonica Newby's report on pedigree dog breeding in Australia on Thursday, September 17 at 8pm on ABC1.
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Bet
19th August 2009, 05:56 PM
Now that the Parliamentary Committee ,APGAW, have given a Preliminary Report in Dog World, mentioning that their enquiry into Breeding and Showing ,has concluded that Purebred Dogs are suffering from a Serious Welfare Problem, will the forth-coming TV Film Pedigree Dogs Exposed, to be being shown shortly in Australia,now be vindicated ,since that is what Jemima Harrison and her TV Film claimed.

Bet(Hargreaves)

EddyAnne
26th August 2009, 11:16 AM
Thanks Sharon for letting us know in another topic on the forum. Well it appears to have started in the media with The Sydney Morning Herald article "Ugly underbelly of best in show", see at this address.
http://www.smh.com.au/national/ugly-underbelly-of-best-in-show-20090822-eueq.html

Interestingly in the article there was a photo plus some comment by Lee Pieterse with Griffon Bruxellois. Back in January I read something interesting about her in DogWorld magazine which mentioned the following and from this address.
http://www.dogworld.co.uk/Breeds/BreedNotes/2-GRI-(1)

"It is Lee who has campaigned so long and hard to get us all to sit up and take notice of SM and she has all of her Griffons MRI scanned. Because of this she is able to do Grade A to Grade A matings and get Grade A progeny. Before you think it is easy to get Grade A etc, let me remind you that it was Lee who first ‘discovered’ SM in her stock and courageously brought our attention to it. She then decided that it was no good going out of Griffons as she liked them so much so she fought to eradicate the problem and hoped that we would all do the same. If only breeders in the past had been so open about their problems. If we are to make a New Year’s resolution let us all, collectively, fight for the continuous health of our breed. I hope you all have a successful year ahead and remember if you are breeding a litter that with the credit crunch you may not be getting as many puppy enquiries."
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EddyAnne
8th September 2009, 03:04 AM
Across Australia the documentary is on ABC1 National this Thursday night at 8:30pm AEST, (UK time Thursday 10 September 2009 at 11:30am UTC+1 hour BST). Straight after the 1 hour documentary at 9.30pm an ABC internet Chat "Live Forum" will become available with discussion postings from the following Panellists and where I think the Public can join in with some posts of their own.
The ABC Forum for it is now listed at this address.
http://www2b.abc.net.au/tmb/Client/Board.aspx?b=102

ABC LIVE FORUM - Pedigree Dogs Exposed.
Coming up this Thursday night at 9:30pm AEST.
Panellists:
Jemima Harrison, the documentary producer.
Hugh Gent, President ANKC Australia.
Dr Karen Hedberg, Veterinarian and Chairman ANKC Health Committee.
Dr Peter Higgins, Veterinarian and ANKC Media Spokesperson.
Dr Bidda Jones, Chief Scientist for RSPCA Australia.
Jonica Newby, ABC Catalyst program.

Then ABC1 Catalyst 8:00pm Thursday 17 September, Jonica Newby for ABC will presents a segment in the Catalyst program called "Pedigree dogs - are they being bred to death?"
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EddyAnne
9th September 2009, 05:46 AM
In Australia today this morning I saw the RSPCA on the Prime TV National Network on the well known Sunrise program. The particular segment on the screen they called it "Pedigree Dog Scandal", and the representative from the RSPCA was Steve Coleman. The segment was only about 2½ minutes but with a message at the end to visit the RSPCA website. Well have a read of their "Pedigree Dogs Exposed" page at this address and note some other page links on that page.
http://www.rspca.org.au/how-you-can-help/campaigns/pedigree-dogs-exposed.html

Today's Sydney Morning Herald newspaper mentions in their Entertainment section that documentary name and uses that image of the Cavalier who had surgery, then under that is mentioned "ABC1 8.30pm Show of the week", see at this link address.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/entertainment/tv--radio/tv-reviews/thursday-tv-pedigree-dogs-exposed/2009/09/08/1252201218617.html
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Bet
9th September 2009, 06:08 PM
Eddy,
I wonder if after seeing the PDE TV Film in Australia, there will be others in your Country, be having the same opinion as I have ,that if the Cavalier suffering from SM, had'nt been shown ,would the slighest bit of notice been taken by many in the Cavalier World,about this terrible disease.

I just can't see any other way to have focused both the Cavalier Breeders and the Public's Minds.

I know when I first saw it I was a bit concerned ,but then realized that there was no other way, to try and get many Cavalier Breeders to realize the seriousness of SM and the MVD Problem in our Breed.

Probably there will be Huffing and Puffing about the Program by some Cavalier Breeders, but if the Future Health of our Breed benefits from the PDE Program, then that is all that matters.

I think I am right in saying that it's about 12 years ago that Dr C Rusbridge was made aware of this condition in Cavaliers,that now there will be more Breeders doing MRI Scans,
and hopefully not Breeding from affected Stock.

Here in Britain, the Showing of the PDE Film ,also included a Cavalier suffering from MVD,
and an interview with the UK CKCS CLUB's Cardiologist, Simon Swift, where he mentioned that the MVD Problem was'nt much improved from what it was years ago in the Cavalier Breed.

EddyAnne
9th September 2009, 08:38 PM
In Australia today is the day for the documentary nationally televising this evening. It’s still early and the sun is about to rise, but I note that the RSPCA Panellist for the ABC “Live Forum” is the early bird who already has started with 2 posts. Those wishing to have a read see the forum at this address.
http://www2b.abc.net.au/tmb/Client/Board.aspx?b=102

Note in the ABC Moderators post this is mentioned where it appears that the public can post a message maybe even to ask Panellist Jemima Harrison a question or maybe to post about Cavaliers, this might be after the documentary has actually been televised and note the other things the Moderator mentions about the forum and conditions.
How to post a message
Log in as a 'Guest' or 'Existing ABC Member'. It is recommended that you use a nickname rather than your real name as a Guest login.
The best way to post a message is to click 'reply' next to any post in a particular discussion thread. There will be a delay before your post appears on the site.
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Bet
10th September 2009, 06:21 PM
It was gratifying to see my Post on the ABC Network, about how I felt that if it had not been for Jemima Harrison's PDE TV Film, would much notice have been taken about the Health Problems of Pedigree Dogs,that I did'nt think so, the number of other folk agreeing with me,

A good number now are saying that when they are buying a Cavalier ,they will demand to see a Certificate showing that the Cavalier Breeder has carried Health Tests on their Breeding Stock. That if it had not been for the TV Film ,this would never have been thought about.

Margaret C
11th September 2009, 02:54 PM
There was an unbelievable amount of comments after the film had been shown.I managed to get a couple of points shown on the live forum.

Most of the comments seemed to be expressions of outrage that such a situation had been allowed to develop, and demands that something was done to address the problems in pedigree dogs.

There were comments from owners of dogs with inherited problems, comments from some breeders denying there was anything wrong and saying that only puppy farm dogs have health issues. Comments from owners of 'Mutts' saying how healthy their dogs were and suggestions that people should choose a rescue dog.

There was the usual libellous remarks about Jemima Harrison, Dr Clare Rusbridge and the people who allowed their affected pets to be filmed.

There were the usual whopping great lies ( I think some of our old friends from CavalierChat were also on there ) including.............

"The BIS Cavlier referred to in the doco was scanned for Syringo, and was graded "A" which is the highest grade, and the most suitable to breed with."

No, not true...............

The idiot who posted this should read the SM guidelines, the dog was scanned at 14 months...... so far too young for an A grade even if he had not had a syrinx.

I and a lot of other people have seen the BIS cavalier's scan, and the certificate that was given at the same time. When the dog was first diagnosed the owner showed it around to exhibitors at least two shows.

The Cavalier Club has a statement from the breeder who accompanied the owner. She heard the neurologist say that it was the worst scan he had seen for a dog of that age & he should never be bred from.

For those that have not seen it, below is a link to the part of the film where the owner is asked about the dog.
Does she act like he is a dog that has been scanned, found free of SM, and given an A Grade?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTjQuQo8Xds&feature=related

EddyAnne
11th September 2009, 08:25 PM
Margaret yes there was quite a number of comments, pity the ABC after one hour closed the “Live Forum”, imagine how many comments there might have been if they left it open for another hour or two or even 24 hours.

By the time I got online it was closed, so no comments there from me, but it was interesting reading all the comments which took me quite a few hours. The comments are still there for others to read, but at the moment the server appears to be doing some maintenance so currently it’s not available.

Some comments were rather interesting, particularly those between "Lulu the Cavalier" and Jemima Harrison about lawyers and proof, and Jemima mentions never heard from a particular person’s lawyers.

Yes Bet I also read your comments and Margaret’s too, and even from members of our Breed Clubs over here.

The Catalyst program on ABC TV next Thursday I think might be interesting, and I think that the Australian Cavalier Clubs and breeders will want to respond, and maybe they already have as I heard that Jonica was contacting people by various means to obtain interviews or comments. The next day I’ll post a link here to the internet video of it which our ABC makes available to the public, and I’ll post it on CavalierChat as some over there might be interested.

On the ABC “Live Forum” Panellist Jonica Newby (Reporter, Catalyst) mentioned this.
“I might add that here in Australia, the majority of Cav breeders are still not screening for SM - and that's despite knowing for the last year that this documentary might come to Australia! It takes a big splash to provoke real change.”

Edit in - Jemima Harrison appears to want to continue chatting with Australians and she has just joined Dogzonline Forum (Australia's Pure Breed Dog Community). Some Cavalier people might like to join that forum to ask her some questions or post some information about Cavaliers.
See post 516 at this address for her first post there.
http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=175084&st=510
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EddyAnne
13th September 2009, 08:45 PM
Coming up on the Catalyst program on Australian ABC1 National 8pm 17/09/2009 is a segment called "Pedigree dogs - are they being bred to death?".

Dr Jonica Newby at Catalyst has been doing some research, which included doing interviews with Jemima Harrison and Professor Patrick Bateson. If you wish to see some recorded video of extended interviews with them then click on this link and look down the page.
http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/extras/extra_videos/pedigreedogs/default.htm
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sins
13th September 2009, 09:52 PM
The interview with Prof Bateson was very interesting.
There were a number of points which caught my attention and I'll extract them and they probably should be dissected more.
On the topic of Legislation:
He didn't think we'll get legislation in this country(UK) which will change the whole scene but can recommend changes in codes of practice which can be embodied within existing legislation.
He adds later that he doesn't think that there's an appetite within government for legislation and doesn't think that's what's needed.
Good codes of practice then can be used - an animal charity can bring a successful prosecution agaisnt a dog breeder if the breeder has not followed the codes of practice.
Syringomyelia:
He cites the case of a dog which was brought to his attention.The dog was described as lazy and when it was given analgesics it became playful and active and even though it didn't exhibit clinical signs...once given painkillers it exhibited more normal behavioiur.
Inbreeding:
Inbreeding and linebreeding, a distinction without a difference!
However all inbreeding doesn't lead to poor consequences.Some effects are to remove genes which cause inherited diseases.
Most sensible breeders strike a balance between maintaining the characteristics of their breed and at the same time maintaining a sufficient degree of genetic diversity within the breed.
But it can lead to an increase in infectious diseases because of the effects on the immune system.
Perhaps when the report is made public next year, this may give an idea of what it will contain?
SIns

Margaret C
13th September 2009, 10:09 PM
My goodness. Watch the Prof. Bateson interview all the way through.

I think the Kennel Club really has cause to worry

EddyAnne
14th September 2009, 12:35 AM
In 1985 in the UK there was a documentary called "Pedigree Dog Problems", no Cavaliers in it but I think it is rather interesting, interested then have a looksee on YouTube at this address.
"Pedigree dog problems + Kennel Club response in 1985"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5RMa7AW5u8
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Bet
14th September 2009, 03:39 PM
Just read Sins' mention of Professor Bateson comment about good codes of Practice, that this could be used by an Animal Charity and bring a successful prosecution against a Dog Breeder if the Breeder has not followed the Codes of Practice.

Does this mean that if a Dog Breeder does not carry -out Health Tests for known Health Problems in a Breed, such as MVD and SM in Cavaliers, the Breeder could be prosecuted,will this be really another name for Mandatory Health Testing.?

Any-body got a thought about this.

sins
14th September 2009, 04:45 PM
I don't think that's what he meant Bet. It all came across as a bit vague but in terms of existing legislation like the Animal Welfare Act certain authorities can issue codes of practice(a code of practice explains what you have to do to comply with legislation) and these codes are probably what he refers to.By tweaking those it may be possible to make prosecutions easier in the case of animal welfare abuses.
What stunned me on reflection, was the mention of an animal charity being able to take a private prosecution against a breeder(which the RSPCA does regularly)....
I can't see it being used to prosecute anyone over breeding an animal with an inherited disorder.It's a case of wait and see what the recommendations are at the time of publication but it's possible the RSPCA might have a bigger role to play, who knows?
I think Margaret is correct in that the Kennel Club will be nervous.This interview gives the impression that the ball will be tossed firmly back into the Kennel Club's court to sort the "vague breed standards" and inherited disorders.
Sins

EddyAnne
14th September 2009, 06:03 PM
In Australia where I am the Government did pass a Legislative Bill regarding Heritable Defects, and the Legislative Bill was really a new insertion or new amendment into the already existing "Prevention of Cruelty to Animals Act".

With the above the Minister responsible for Animal Welfare then got a working team together of various Specialists where they drew up the "Code of Practice for the Responsible Breeding of Animals with Heritable Defects that cause Disease".

All this is new and to help everyone to understand everything and where questions can be asked, Seminars have already been arranged for later this year. A representative from the Governments Department of Animal Welfare will be at these Seminars to give talks and to answer questions.

As all this involves a Government Act then it certainly can apply to ANYONE who breeds dogs. The Act only Tables 5 Heritable Defects which are Von Willebrands Disease (vWD), Progressive Retinal Atrophy (PRA), Neuronal Ceroid Lipofuscinosis (NCL), Hereditary Cataract (HC), Collie Eye Anomaly (CEA). In time more could be added, but for now I think the Government might want to see it applied and functioning with just these at this time particularly with actual court case situations being processed.

The Animal Charity called the RSPCA for years has been given powers by the Government by Acts to investigate animal cruelty, and the Government also provides funding so that the RSPCA can pay for lawyers so that they can take cases to court.

So far from what I see and keeping in mind all this is new. If someone bought a puppy who later in their life was diagnosed with one of the Act’s Tabled Heritable Defects, the owner of the dog can inform the RSPCA who would then investigate, and if investigation reveals they have a case to take to court under the Act then they will take it to court. In court the case will be presented similarly as would any cruelty case, and if found guilty then it is a conviction and fines could be imposed.

We will have to wait and see what actually happens. In cases where a breeder was found guilty, maybe this might pave the way where a pet owner might find it easy to recover all the money paid in veterinary and medication bills involving the Heritable Defect, and this maybe for the rest of the dog’s life with the pet owner. Keep in mind that this is all new and for now we really have to wait and see, and I will be interested in what the representative from the Governments Department of Animal Welfare will be mentioning at the Seminars arranged for later this year.

Regarding the UK scene I’m interested in reading the Full Reports when they are ready, and interested in what happens after that.
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Bet
14th September 2009, 06:34 PM
Interesting times ahead for the Dog World??

Just maybe if a Breeder has not done Health Checks, and the Dog sold developes a Problem known to be in the Breed ,well.......

EddyAnne
16th September 2009, 08:36 PM
In Australia TODAY the Catalyst program will be televised nationally on ABC1 8pm Thursday 17 Sept. Later when available I'll provide a link to the program so those who want to see it online can do so.

Jonica Newby at Catalyst mentioned this in an email response to someone at another forum, but note her blessing where I think Jonica wants everyone to read her email.


Thank you for your invitation to contribute to your forum.

I'm afraid I am not able to contribute at this time, as I am about to head off to film another story.

I do understand that there are responsible breeders and in my story, ABC1 8pm Thursday, I have highlighted some of their efforts. However, a scientific view of the situation can only lead to the conclusion that the breeding system, as it currently stands, contributes to disease burden.

I trust that responsible breeders, of which there are many, will see the current publicity as an opportunity to improve things. If all potential customers are informed enough to ask about hereditary diseases, then it can only benefit responsible breeders.

Thank you for your kind invitation, and if you would like to post this answer on your forum, you have my blessing.

Cheers
Jonica
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Bet
17th September 2009, 11:52 AM
Thanks Eddy, for Posting the comments from Jonica Newby, I think she says it all when she mentions that for the Health Problems in Pedigree Dogs ,the Scientific View of the situation can only lead to the conclusion that the Breeding System ,as it currently stands ,contributes to Disease Burden.

Also was her comment that responsible Breeders .will see the current Publicity as a opportunity to improve things.

She mentions that if all Potential Customers are informed enough to ask about Hereditary Diseases ,my comments ,if all Prospective Cavalier Buyers ask to see a Certificate that the Cavalier Breeder has carried Health Tests for MVD and SM on their Cavalier Breeding Stock, that could help in giving Cavaliers the Healthy and Long Life Future they deserve.

I do hope ,when the new Cavalier Breed Columnist writes in Dog World ,that this will be being emphasised,not like before when there was no mention I think, ever made of Prospective Cavalier Buyers being asked to see a Health Certificate from the Cavalier Breeder by the previous Cavalier Breed Writer.

Hopefully this will now change in her New Web Site Articles.

EddyAnne
17th September 2009, 02:56 PM
The Australian ABC TV Catalyst program called Pedigree Dogs is now available to view online, and which even includes a Ruby Cavalier with Syringomyelia, and here is the link address.
http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/2688984.htm

Also an extended video interview with the ANKC President Hugh Gent has just been added to the Catalyst website see down the page at this link address.
http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/extras/extra_videos/pedigreedogs/default.htm
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sins
17th September 2009, 04:05 PM
That was very interesting.
The neurologist says that incidence of SM in similar to that in the UK.
She thinks 1 in 25 cavaliers will have it and 1 in 5 are carriers??
Where is this information coming from?
It's a bit of a shocker to realise that 90% of Bulldogs are born by C/section :huh:
There were some well thought out questions asked there, especially
"Are individual efforts enough when the very system breeders work within seems doomed to generate more illness"?
SIns

Oreo
17th September 2009, 07:06 PM
Thanks for posting this ABC link and thankyou SINS for drawing attention to this by Dr. Georgina Child. I wonder how it is figured that 1 in 5 are carriers. I am a little shocked to see concrete numbers given here.

"NARRATION
Veterinary neurologist Dr Georgina Child guesses the incidence here is similar to the UK – about one in 25 Cavaliers will get it. But probably one in 5 are carriers.

Dr Georgina Child
The numbers that are screening are increasing but I would say the majority of breeders still are not. It’s an expensive test.

NARRATION
And despite the heads up the local Cavalier club has from the UK experience, upsot health issues … when we looked to see what warnings they give potential buyers .

Dr Jonica Newby
Oh hang on – you have to go to one of the links pages …it was disappointing. Gosh you’d have to actually know about syringomyelia to find it from that website.

Dog owner
Yeah you would. Not good"

http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/2688984.htm

Karlin
17th September 2009, 07:15 PM
incidence here is similar to the UK

Incidence in the Uk is estimated to be at LEAST one in three affected with Sm during a lifetime. Can only guess the neurologist is going from the self-reporting sample in the KC breed survey -- which is a pretty unscientific sample and heavily leans towards breeders who would have reasons to underreport. Even the older US breed health survey puts level of self-reported, CONFIRMED affectedness as about double that figure with more guessing their dog is affected. And that was a sample of a limited age range with no reason to believe the US cavalier population at higher risk than the UK population (not least as all cavaliers are so closely related).

Most researchers are guessing almost all cavaliers are carriers.

EddyAnne
17th September 2009, 08:32 PM
I am a little shocked to see concrete numbers given here.

Concrete? Note guesses in what you posted.
"Dr Georgina Child guesses the incidence here is similar to the UK"

The other parts in what Dr Georgina Child mentions about expensive and how many test, well.
In Australia MRI screening testing for breeding from what I'm hearing and depending on where you are is currently about $600 to $900 (about £318 to £477), but expect heaps more if it actually involves an SM/CM case that requires a FULL MRI consultation and treatment. From what I hear clubs are still trying to reduce the costs.

Also from what I'm hearing today in Australia the cost of ONE pet puppy is about $900 to $1,000 (£477 to £530). So maybe some costs could be spread and passed onto pet purchasers and this over a few litters where for each pup that might not be too much, particularly when considering the costs of FULL MRI testing, consultation and treatment costs regarding an case the actually has got SM/CM.
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RodRussell
17th September 2009, 08:45 PM
...It's a bit of a shocker to realise that 90% of Bulldogs are born by C/section...

I had thought that percentage was even higher. And that percentage does not apply just to whelping; it also includes artificial insemination. One of our veterinarians, who breeds Beagles, has said -- referring to the English bulldog -- that any breed that cannot be whelped naturally should not be bred at all.

A local English bulldog breeder has assured me that there are some bloodlines which can whelp naturally, if not inseminate.

EddyAnne
17th September 2009, 08:57 PM
Just to add regarding Australia's Neurologist Dr Georgina Child, note via this link at the bottom of the document that she is mentioned as part of the proposed BVA KC Syringomyelia MRI screening scheme, and also in the document note "Inclusion of dogs from other countries - This scheme is also not limited to the UK i.e. images and appropriate documentation may also be submitted from other countries." The Document is on the UK Cavalier Club's website at this link address.
http://www.thecavalierclub.co.uk/health/bva_kc/SM_%20MRI_%20Nov_%2008.pdf
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EddyAnne
17th September 2009, 09:15 PM
I had thought that percentage was even higher. And that percentage does not apply just to whelping; it also includes artificial insemination. One of our veterinarians, who breeds Beagles, has said -- referring to the English bulldog -- that any breed that cannot be whelped naturally should not be bred at all.

A local English bulldog breeder has assured me that there are some bloodlines which can whelp naturally, if not inseminate.
Over the years some breeds certainly do keep on being referred to. Yes even in Australia such as in the Video and Transcript from veterinarian Dr Max Zuber mentioning on Catalyst, "in our practice ninety percent plus of all bulldog puppies are born by caesarean. They have a big head, they have big shoulders, they have a, a small waist, so to speak and those puppies just can't fit through the birth canal."

Veterinarians and the public surely can see some problems there, yet the pedigree dog breeders somehow see NO problems and keep breeding dogs to such extremes. This has been going on for many generations and probably will continue for many more. Well that is until one day when something is done to actually address the situation.
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EddyAnne
17th September 2009, 10:16 PM
When one starts to see certain things in the dog world one may start wondering what is going on, maybe even in regards to something like this.

http://www.celticpride-bulldogs.co.uk/DSCN1609.jpg
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tupup
17th September 2009, 10:22 PM
Oh i am glad he made sure his own knees would be comfy :swear::swear::(

EddyAnne
18th September 2009, 08:40 AM
I wonder if Cavaliers are included and note in the televised video this was mentioned.
"Dr Jonica Newby - I have here the results of a large new study in the UK hot off the presses. And it found every one of the 50 most popular breeds in the UK is predisposed to at least one conformation related disorder."

I did a screen capture to see what she was holding and here it is.

http://members.wideband.net.au/safcav/1A/ConformingToStandards.jpg
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Bet
18th September 2009, 09:14 AM
We have never been involved in Breeding Cavaliers , but I have heard it mentioned amongst Cavalier Breeders as having a Cavalier Bitch who was a Squealer when being Mated,is this another unsavoury side of the Cavalier World, .

I just wonder would those Cavalier Bitches ,who were suffering when being mated, be being Mated again and again.

Is this another Wefare Problem that should be thought about.?

Tania
18th September 2009, 09:18 AM
This whole thing is digusting and makes me feel very angry and sick!

sins
18th September 2009, 12:54 PM
Breaking news on Dogworld!

http://www.dogworld.co.uk/News/39-legislation

They're a bit slow off the mark.
http://board.cavaliertalk.com/showpost.php?p=334912&postcount=15
icon_whistling
Hopefully though this Bateson inquiry doesn't just lead to more talks about talks...that would be the worst possible outcome for everyone.
Sins

Margaret C
18th September 2009, 01:13 PM
Breaking news on Dogworld!

http://www.dogworld.co.uk/News/39-legislation

They're a bit slow off the mark.
http://board.cavaliertalk.com/showpost.php?p=334912&postcount=15
icon_whistling
Sins

Sins,

You obviously have the eye for a good story.
I'm beginning to think you and EddyAnne should take on the Dog World breed notes :)

sins
18th September 2009, 01:24 PM
Well they are apparently looking for two writers Margaret:rotfl:
My immediate reaction to that post Margaret is to open my notebook and slash your odds down to 7/1
http://www.scoliosis-support.org/images/smilies/scared.gif

Sins

EddyAnne
18th September 2009, 02:18 PM
Here is a bit of news in regards to what Jonica mentioned on our ABC TV and seen in my previous post. I now have a copy of that, and Rod Russel within it there is a link to your website.

Also I noticed some references to LIDA in Australia and I remember a UK news article where the UK RSPCA with Sydney University was looking into setting up something similar in the UK. Interestingly in the Report I noticed things including even this, and I note on TV I saw Jonica at the University of Sydney with Dr Paul McGreevy who I saw even playing with his dogs.

~ Acknowledgements ~

This report was written for and funded by Dogs Trust , UK. We would like to thank Prof. Andrew Higgins, Chris Laurence and Clarissa Baldwin for their help and support throughout the project.

We would also like to thank Prof. Frank Nicholas of the university of Sydney for useful advice and pointers on the heritability of disorders and Martin Whiting and Dr Sandra Corr at the RVC for discussions on the general topic and in particular on the GISID.

We would particularly like to thank Dr Paul McGreevy of the University of Sydney for his advice and input in the development of the GISID and the project in general and for his comments on an earlier draft of this report.
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Margaret C
18th September 2009, 03:17 PM
Hello EddyAnne,

Where did you get your copy, I tried googling but could not find the published article?

frecklesmom
18th September 2009, 03:29 PM
The bulldog mating and delivering is a bit of a cash cow for the Vets involved and somewhere I read that having a bulldog breeder in your clientele (Vets) will go nicely toward acquiring your summer home (paraphrased). I see the females come in-they are boarded first for a couple days-than they receive AI and are taken home later. When gestation is complete they are back for C-Section and then, of course, the cosmetics are done on the litter (dew claws and whatever). I can't see some of the Vets involved pushing for change as they've incorporated these payments into their lives :(. It's impossible to pull greed out of the defense against change.

EddyAnne
18th September 2009, 05:02 PM
Hello EddyAnne,

Where did you get your copy, I tried googling but could not find the published article?
It has not yet been peer-reviewed so may not be totally final, after it has I think that heaps of people might want to read it.

Edited to add. Personally I think that they should have presented it in simpler format and maybe with some diagrams or photos.
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EddyAnne
18th September 2009, 05:08 PM
I can't see some of the Vets involved pushing for change as they've incorporated these payments into their lives :(. It's impossible to pull greed out of the defense against change.

Well I'm tending to see more things like this, even within some video on UK VetsTV.
http://vets.tv/video.php?vid=115&cid=10

Yet another UK VetsTV and which even Secretary and Spokesperson Caroline for the Kennel Club attends.
http://vets.tv/video.php?vid=117&cid=10

In the above notice some discussion regarding CATS. Recently I read Jemima Harrison mentioning this, quote; "we have researched pedigree cats and have pitched to make this film, too."
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RodRussell
18th September 2009, 05:23 PM
http://www.celticpride-bulldogs.co.uk/DSCN1609.jpg
.

I love the braces -- wear them or measure with them -- and those trousers look very practical around peeing puppies. But he also should be wearing a pair of Wellingtons!

EddyAnne
18th September 2009, 06:07 PM
I love the braces -- wear them or measure with them

As for measuring, in Australia quite some years ago we switched from the british system to the european metric system. Yes going way back I remember using things like inches for measuring and even using pounds, shillings and pennies for buying things. Where things have changed it doesn't take too long for most people to become familar with the new things.
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EddyAnne
28th September 2009, 11:33 PM
The other day at Sydney University there was an open forum event for veterinary students and professors, also breeders were invited to attend along with representatives from DogsNSW and the ANKC plus the RSPCA. To start they screened "Pedigree Dogs Exposed" then followed by a panel of speakers.

I think it would be interesting to hear what was mentioned by everyone and it was all audio recorded. I include a link to some small pieces from the recording provided by the university and maybe later I'll have the full recording, and it was interesting to hear what Griffon Bruxellois breeder Lee Pieterse mentions at the end. Interested then turn up your speaker volume and click on this link.
http://2ser.podomatic.com/player/web/2009-09-28T07_45_07-07_00

Oh regarding Lee Pieterse and in particular Syringomyelia (SM) I remember reading the following in the Breed Notes on DogWorld.
"It is Lee who has campaigned so long and hard to get us all to sit up and take notice of SM and she has all of her Griffons MRI scanned. Because of this she is able to do Grade A to Grade A matings and get Grade A progeny. Before you think it is easy to get Grade A etc, let me remind you that it was Lee who first ‘discovered’ SM in her stock and courageously brought our attention to it. She then decided that it was no good going out of Griffons as she liked them so much so she fought to eradicate the problem and hoped that we would all do the same. If only breeders in the past had been so open about their problems."

In case some missed this elsewhere a repeat.
Over my way this suddenly appeared on a Government website. Maybe something similar just might happen over your way, and I read in the news that DEFRA was keen to obtain the Full Reports. I heard that over your way that "Codes of Practice" could be embodied within existing legislation and that is not too difficult. It appears that the following was not too difficult over my way.

NSW Government
"Animal Welfare Code of Practice Breeding Dogs And Cats"

10.1.2.2 Where a heritable disease is recognised in a breed and where there is screening procedures or a test for that disease the person in charge in the case of a stud cat or dog or bitch or queen should:
• have a current official evaluation or test result for the dog or cat for such hereditary disease;
• provide the official evaluation or test result to the owners where the dog or cat is to be mated to an animal not owned by the breeding facility;
• provide the official evaluation or test result of both the sire and the dam to the new owners of any puppy of kitten;
• endeavour to ensure that the genetic make-up of both sire and dam will not result in an increase in the frequency or severity of known inherited disorders.
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