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View Full Version : PDE interview that did not get included in the film.



Margaret C
31st August 2009, 11:43 PM
A little bit of film that was not included in Pedigree Dogs Exposed. This really needs to be seen to be believed.

The man being interviewed is the editor of 'Our Dogs' .......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qp7LrynKMw

Karlin
31st August 2009, 11:52 PM
heh! Just posted the link too -- I'll delete mine so it isn't double posted. :lol:

Daisy's Mom
31st August 2009, 11:59 PM
Wow! Blind but good-looking is fine by him. Sick, in pain, but outwardly attractive is fine by him. Sheesh, that's depressing.

frecklesmom
1st September 2009, 12:05 AM
Depressing and scary, I think :eek:.

diddy
1st September 2009, 01:06 AM
:yikes Wow, he's just unbelievable. Couldnt quite believe I heard him right first time, so watched it again. Yep IMO the mans barking!

Margaret C
1st September 2009, 01:27 AM
Wow! Blind but good-looking is fine by him. Sick, in pain, but outwardly attractive is fine by him. Sheesh, that's depressing.

Not only that but blind and winning BIS at Crufts is fine by him.

Please note that this is a Kennel Club member and editor of a weekly dog paper who was obviously quite aware that the dog was blind when it won Crufts.

Daisy's Mom
1st September 2009, 02:35 AM
If they are truly going to have this outlook, then they should just start calling these dog shows beauty contests, because that's all they are. (Although even beauty queens are supposed to be somewhat intelligent and well-spoken, right?)

If soundness and health are irrelevant, then just call a spade a spade and be done with it. I was crazy enough to think that the breed's ability to perform the function it was bred for was supposed to be important. I can't imagine a blind retriever (or whatever breed it was) being sound for the job it was bred for.

I thought it was hilarious when Jemima said "Well, Stephen Hawking is not fathering offspring." or something to that effect. That cracked me up, especially when the guy replied "Well, no."

Bet
1st September 2009, 10:30 AM
Is this an example of what is wrong with the Show Scene. ?

Also could it be ,that for some Show Folk, that they have some-thing lacking in their lives, and Showing Dogs gives their Egos a Boost.

I was once told this by a Vet.

Bet(Hargreaves)

sins
1st September 2009, 11:38 AM
That interview obviously did not go well.
Although he seemed like a genuine straightforward guy he seems to operate on a completely different wavelength to most pet owners. What this says to me is that when dogs are produced for show,the potential pet owner 's requirements are not factored into the equation.
It's not Ok for a blind dog of any breed to win BIS at Crufts.The runners up in that group must have been beside themselves when their dog was judged second best to a blind dog.
The reference to his friend who was partially sighted and enjoyed his day out at Crufts was unfortunate.....
I don't agree with comparing dogs with humans in relation to hereditary illnesses.A stud dog can produce several hundred offspring,the average human male would be a mighty man to try to match that performance and as such wouldn't have the same level of risk for passing on hereditary illnesses as he wouldn't be fathering offspring with his cousins.Plus there is no NHS for dogs, if your dog gets sick you either cough up or have it insured.
Stephen Hawking has three children.The fact the he has miraculously survived for so long with his illness is remarkable,the exception rather than the rule for Lou Gehrigs.
The fact that you can't see MVD or SM externally in a cavalier isn't a reason for not breeding away from it,but in fairness I don't think this is what he meant.I think in terms of winning shows you can't judge whether or not a cavalier had a condition or not.
I feel somewhat concerned beause interviews of this kind rattle your faith in the idea that buying from a show breeder means you're doing your best to source a healthy attractive dog.
It's ridiculous to blame Jemima Harrison for bringing the house down around the showrings of the UK, but the facts are simple.She didn't make any of this up.People willingly gave interviews and uttered the very words that were eventually broadcast.These people must share the responsibility for the aftermath of PDE.That applies to those who defended the status quo in the show world and those who rattled the cages.
Bet, I don't know if people try to achieve self validation via showing their dogs.Most show breeders I know don't.They're simply mad about dogs and love them so much they take extreme pride in them.Then again I'm sure there are a few strange individuals who do, as there are in any other hobby or activity.
Sins

Bet
1st September 2009, 12:39 PM
I don't want cause an unpleasantness about this Sins.

But do any of us Cavalier Pet Owners ,cover our Beloved Cavaliers with a Blanket ,in a Cage, for a number of hours , this happens for a good number of Cavaliers at Shows.

OK ,we did a wee bit of Showing ,and did the same.

We had been at a Show ,here in Scotland ,and then went onto a Cavalier Party on the way home, it was for Cavalier Pet Owners .

All those Cavalier Owners had their Cavaliers sitting on their knees, giving them a wee cuddle.

I looked at our Katie Jnr , her wee face looking at us from inside her Cage, ,I took her out , that was the Last Show we were ever at. !!!!

Maybe this is why I just don't think much of the Show Scene, I have seen Cavaliers ,on Trolleys., in their Cages getting bumped about, their terrified faces looking out ,making their way to a Show. How can those Cavalier Breeders / Showers of Cavaliers treat their Cavaliers like that.

Is this the Dark Side of the Cavalier Show Scene. ?

For me it sure is.

Bet(Hargreaves)

sins
1st September 2009, 01:39 PM
I don't personally know many cavalier exhibitors Bet, but I have friends who show other breeds.I've no doubt it can be difficult managing your dogs at a show and I think if you've encountered something that you weren't comfortable with during your venture into dogshowing,then you made the correct choice to discontinue it as a hobby.
I still believe the real animal welfare abuses lie at breeding level, and not just at show level.A cavalier may have to put up with a cage during transportation and while waiting it's turn in the ring,a trolley might be a bit bumpy but it'll save the exhibitors lumbar discs.But keeping a realistic perspective on things,many bitches live their entire lives in cages, they live,eat,whelp and die in cages while never seeing daylight of feel the warmth of a loving owner.This is the dark side of breeding which we mustn't lose sight of either.
If there are problems at a dogshow then it's down to those who organise the show to make adequate provision for the welfare and safety of the dogs being exhibited. I think as a rule if a cavalier is not happy in the ring ,then it won't win and would be unlikely to be heavily campaigned??? Maybe I'm wrong......I'm just guessing here.

Yorkysue
1st September 2009, 03:10 PM
Bet

I have been to a number of dog shows over the last year (just to watch) and I have never seen trolley's being bumped, or terrified faces peeping out of cages!!

All the cavaliers I saw were having a terrific time with happy smiley faces. And a lot were sitting on owners knees.

Maybe the shows you went to were different - but I have to disagree with you on dogs not enjoying it, or being looked after.

Sorry - I've just realised that I've gone off the original topic on this thread. eeek!

Karlin
1st September 2009, 03:58 PM
I've been to shows as well and would say some dogs enjoy it and some do not. Some of those dogs spend hours and hours in cages and at some big shows are not allowed to leave the bench area. There are people reaching out to pet them and crowding the crates, and I've seen dogs jerked around the showring by obviously annoyed handlers -- one women at the cavaliers at the Irish national show in March was practically dragging a poor little female along. And one thing that amazes me at every show I have ever been to is the handlers/owners walking very small breeds on leads through massive crowds where they could be easily stepped on or crushed or tripped over. Yet these stupid people march along dragging several of their tiny showdogs behind them, often with never a backward glance to see if they are safe. At the first irish show I went to, when Jaspar was only 4-5 months old, a women who is a famous breeder of schnausers told me I should have him on a choke chain, not a harness, as he'd never learn anything ad they need to learn discipline from the start. :(

So sorry, I don't have a very high opinion of many of the people who show, or the conditions in show facilities, and have heard enough stories direct from show people of other horrors such as those who for example, break cavaliers' tails in order to get them to set flat (rather than arch over, as such a 'gay tail' is unwanted in the ring).

There are definitely some great people with a real commitment to the dogs who care for them properly and would not show an anxious dog. But (as with pet owners) there are plenty who should not even be entitled to own a single dog.

For some people showing dogs is an extension of ego but then I think so are most hobbies and sports! That to me is neither here nor there most of the time. I am more concerned about those whose focus is so unduly on ribbons and trophies and plaques and income that they don't care about what is inflicted on their dogs in the name of winning and/or profit.

When prominent people in the show world think outward appearance is more important than all else, then the 'hobby' needs external welfare legislation to regulate it.

Margaret C
1st September 2009, 04:36 PM
I don't personally know many cavalier exhibitors Bet, but I have friends who show other breeds.I've no doubt it can be difficult managing your dogs at a show and I think if you've encountered something that you weren't comfortable with during your venture into dogshowing,then you made the correct choice to discontinue it as a hobby.
I still believe the real animal welfare abuses lie at breeding level, and not just at show level.A cavalier may have to put up with a cage during transportation and while waiting it's turn in the ring,a trolley might be a bit bumpy but it'll save the exhibitors lumbar discs.But keeping a realistic perspective on things,many bitches live their entire lives in cages, they live,eat,whelp and die in cages while never seeing daylight of feel the warmth of a loving owner.This is the dark side of breeding which we mustn't lose sight of either.
If there are problems at a dogshow then it's down to those who organise the show to make adequate provision for the welfare and safety of the dogs being exhibited. I think as a rule if a cavalier is not happy in the ring ,then it won't win and would be unlikely to be heavily campaigned??? Maybe I'm wrong......I'm just guessing here.

I have mixed feelings about this subject. I do exhibit dogs and greatly enjoy the bond that I feel with my dog while in the show ring.
I do not however fool myself that my dog, however happy he is to be out of his trolley and relishing the prospect of the bait I use to get him up on his toes, would not be just as happy running round the local park.

We show for our own gratification, not to give our dogs a fun day out, and on a hot summer day they would probably be much happier at home, finding a cool spot to lie in, than shut in a stuffy cage.

I agree the the real animal welfare abuses lie at breeding level, and that is in the obvious neglect in puppy farms, but also the callous disregard of inherited problems in beautiful typy show dogs.

If I said that there were breeders that were using blind dogs, dogs that cannot breath, dogs that have crippling inherited conditions, most people would think I was talking about unregistered breeders..... Just watch that youtube clip again...... This is happening among the most celebrated show dogs, remember Danny the Peke, another Crufts BIS winner, and the Kennel Club hierarchy know and condone it.

The show breeders keep saying that people like Jemima Harrison and Carol Fowler should tackle battery bred dogs first, but the reforms should surely start at the top.
While the Kennel Club registers puppy farm dogs, and the top people think that inherited disease can be dismissed as having no relevance if it does not show, then we do need to hold them to account.

Bet
1st September 2009, 07:21 PM
As I mentioned ,I have only been to a few Cavalier Shows.

One big Show in Edinburgh ,we were told to GET OUR Cavaliers ,in their Cages UP The Stairs, and only bring them down to the Hall when they were to be Shown.

I was not happy about this ,complained to the Show Manager about this, MADAM .I was told ,Rules are Rules, I did have the Last Word though with Him , told him I was not a Madam ,I did not run a Brothel !!!!

I was at another Cavalier Championship Show, our Becky has just been discovered to have Epilepsy, mentioned this to 3 Top Cavalier Breeders ,they sure were lying through their Teeth ,when they told me there was no such thing in Cavaliers as Epilepsy. !!

I was involved in the Sporting Scene in my Youth ,maybe should'nt mention this, but was an Ex Olympic Trialist for Britain, the Folk I met then were sure as different as Night from Day., from many of the Cavalier Folk I met at the Show Scene. It was a Catty Set UP.When you are involved in Sports , you learn how to accept a Beating.The Cavalier Scene just was'nt like that.

A number of Cavalier Breeders say that most of the Cavalier Ills are due to the Puppy Farmers, but is this not another excuse , I know that the Puppy Farms are terrible places,
but surely the Cavalier Breeders who are CKCS CLUB Members, who will not Health Test their Breeding Stock ,are just as bad.

Bet (Hargreaves)

Margaret C
1st September 2009, 07:24 PM
I have received a phone call from the gentleman that was interviewed & he has asked me to correct some misinformation. He is, in fact, the publisher of the dog paper, not the Editor.
We had a long, interesting and fairly friendly exchange of views.
He did say that although he knew of some problems with cavaliers he did not realise they were so widespread.

Bet
1st September 2009, 07:31 PM
All I can say ,as we say in Scotland, WEEL HE KENS NOO!!!

Where has he been for the past 10 years or so.

Bet(Hargreaves)

sins
1st September 2009, 07:48 PM
told him I was not a Madam ,I did not run a Brothel !!!!
cl*pcl*pcl*pcl*pcl*p

EddyAnne
2nd September 2009, 01:15 AM
I have received a phone call from the gentleman that was interviewed & he has asked me to correct some misinformation. He is, in fact, the publisher of the dog paper, not the Editor.
We had a long, interesting and fairly friendly exchange of views.
He did say that although he knew of some problems with cavaliers he did not realise they were so widespread.
Oh I think that is lovely to sit down at home and have a long, interesting and fairly friendly phone chat with the gentleman who is the Chairman of The Kennel Club. It appears he was aware of that recording and probably aware of this forum thread, and it appears that maybe all that needed to be corrected on the forum was “He is, in fact, the publisher of the dog paper, not the Editor.” Maybe later you might get some more phone calls from the gentleman about Cavaliers.
.

*Pauline*
2nd September 2009, 10:37 AM
I have received a phone call from the gentleman that was interviewed & he has asked me to correct some misinformation. He is, in fact, the publisher of the dog paper, not the Editor.
:eek::sl*p: And that was all he wanted to change...goodness me.