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Bet
7th September 2009, 03:53 PM
Just noticed that Norma Inglis is now no longer doing the Cavalier Breed Notes for Dog World,

I have contacted DW ,and been told they are looking into it.

I do hope when there is a replacement ,that the Cavalier Pet Owners will now be considered in the Breed Notes ,that there is more to having a Cavalier than just Showing and Winning in the Show Ring .

Bet(Hargreaves)

Bet
7th September 2009, 04:35 PM
Sorry about this Folks, just had N Inglis phone me saying she always mentioned about things in her Cavalier Breed Notes that would interest us Cavalier Pet Owners.

Since I really have no interest in who or what Cavalier is Winning, I did'nt pay much attention to the Breed Notes,so as she has just said she did, I she must have.

I just don't know how much information was given to the SM Problem in the Cavalier Breed Notes,about 10 years ago to Cavalier Pet Owners who were insisting that there was a serious Neurological Problem in our Breed,just maybe ,and I don't know what is happening, but hopefully the List Norma is now doing the Cavalier Breed notes for, will give a List of Cavalier Breeders who are Health Testing the Cavalier Breeding Stock for both MVD and SM ,so that prospective Cavalier Buyers will know who to contact when wanting a Cavalier.

I know that all the Health Testing in the World won't guarantee a Cavalier a Healthy ,Longer Life, but at least the Cavalier Buyer will know that are dealing with a Breeder who is trying to improve the Healthof Cavaliers.

Margaret C
7th September 2009, 04:51 PM
There is a lot of upheaval in the Cavalier show world at the moment.............

The breed note writer for the weekly 'Dog World' paper seems to have suddenly stopped writing for the paper. Perhaps she will have more poetic licence where she is now?

Another well known breeder has written a little too much in a post to a cavalier Internet list, managing in a couple of sentences to libel a judge and another exhibitor and trying to influence the judging by an overseas visitor.

Another judge has received an anonymous letter suggesting she should just post the top award to the owner of a winning show bitch.

A well known health representative is rumoured to have resigned after complaints about her internet posts attacking one of the UK's leading cardiologists.

Fascinating stuff......... you couldn't make it up if you tried.

Bet
7th September 2009, 05:46 PM
Now that there is to be a New Breed Notes Writer for our Cavalier Breed, as well as asking Steve Mynott,to allow Norma to publish a List in her Breed Notes for him to publish a List of Cavalier Breeders who do Health Tests on their Cavalier Breeding Stock for the two most serious Diseases afflicting Cavaliers at the Moment ,if the Editor of Dog World could be asked to do the same.

There is just nothing on the UK CKCS CLUB WEB SITE, about a List of those Breeders.

Clairelou
7th September 2009, 06:03 PM
A list of Cavalier Breeders who test their breeding stock would be wonderful. As hard as it would be to 'police' if it could be done, and I think with effort it could, it would be a great step in the rght direction.

sins
7th September 2009, 06:06 PM
Well I for one will miss Norma's breed notes on Dogworld.
Whoever takes up the role will have a hard act to follow.
Whether you agreed or disagreed with the content(If I recall I disagreed a lot:p!!),you'd be hard pressed to find a better round up of events in the cavalier calendar or in any other breed calendar for that matter.
Her notes generated controversy,provoked intense debate (and many a good snowball fight)while also managing to combine general content,from obituaries to show successes,get well wishes and lost cavaliers.
I'm sure she'll continue to do the same no matter where her Column is hosted.
As for her succesor, let the speculation commence!!
Anyone prepared to open a book and take bets.
Bet Hargreaves 66/1............*runs and hides*.......:grin:
Never let it be said that the cavalier world is boring.....
Sins

Bet
7th September 2009, 06:33 PM
I don't know whether I should be mentioning this, but I had a look at the CC List, I sure am getting slated, why folk cant argue without getting personal, I just can't understand.

One good suggestion has appeared though ,that Margaret be the new DW Cavalier Breed Columnist ,I would second that.

Maybe she could get the DW Editor interested in publishing a List of Cavalier Breeders who do carry out Health Tests on their Cavalier Breeding Stock.

At the moment no-body seems to want to.

Kate H
7th September 2009, 09:11 PM
In fairness to Norma, she was happy to publicise my Cavalier Fun Day last April - and to include my report on it afterwards, including Margaret's comment on the Best in Show. Have pet people been sending her information about, for example, wins at Companion Shows (as appear in other breed notes in DW) or at obedience? And the monthly Companion Page on the CKCS Club website is happy to have contributions from pet owners - they had a bit about Oliver doing competition obedience, and also publicised the Fun Day. But they can't include items if you don't send them.

I doubt if any paper would publish a list of breeders who do health checks - too controversial and too much like free advertising! The CKCS website has a list of Cavaliers who have been scanned - it's voluntary and omits the result of the scan, but at least it can lead you to breeders who scan and you can insist on seeing the result. Not all the dogs on the list are big show winners - Oliver's on it, and a lot of smaller breeders. Apart from Margaret's private list, I noticed a marked increase in adverts in this year's CKCS Year Book by breeders who scan. Perhaps they're beginning to realise that it's a selling point - a message we can all help to get across.

Kate, Oliver and Aled

Brian M
7th September 2009, 09:47 PM
Hi Kate

Thats exactly how I found Lily a couple of weeks ago ,started first with Margarets list and together with the breeders list on the club website and cross checking everything with the list of scanned Cavs and after many calls and emails found my little black and tan who had Grade A mri scanned parents and also ticked all the other boxes .It did surprise me a bit how many breeders do scan and know it is the only way forward so the future does look brighter and as you say it is a big selling point .
Personaly I think sins would be good choice for the breed notes or we could have joint representation from CT members ie M C and B H and Mark m and sins.:)
and of course Pauline as well.:)

sins
7th September 2009, 09:57 PM
Oh Yes a CT committee to write the breed notes:D
Just calculating the odds on that CV arriving on DW publisher's desk..
and the computer says......
3.6 million to one.
More likelihood of Alien abduction,spontaneous human combustion or an Airbus being piloted by a pig.Very funny Brian:rolleyes:
Nope Bet still looks good at 66/1
Sins

Brian M
7th September 2009, 10:16 PM
Sins

Well that mad scientist brother of mine has assured me that aliens do exist this was also confirmed by one of the Lunar astronauts so you be careful out there ,but I dont know anything about human combustion :confused:or Airbus pilots :confused:but I can check with our Poppy :cool:,I thought that committee looked fine.:)

Margaret C
7th September 2009, 10:30 PM
Hi Kate

Thats exactly how I found Lily a couple of weeks ago ,started first with Margarets list and together with the breeders list on the club website and cross checking everything with the list of scanned Cavs and after many calls and emails found my little black and tan who had Grade A mri scanned parents and also ticked all the other boxes .It did surprise me a bit how many breeders do scan and know it is the only way forward so the future does look brighter and as you say it is a big selling point .
Personaly I think sins would be good choice for the breed notes or we could have joint representation from CT members ie M C and B H and Mark m and sins.:)
and of course Pauline as well.:)

Include Karlin, Kate, Nicki, yourself and half a dozen others that contribute to this list & you have a Cavalier Dream Team!

Brian M
7th September 2009, 10:37 PM
Hi Margaret

And if anybody disagrees Grumpy Old William and Narky Nics Daisy will sort them.:eek::eek:

tupup
7th September 2009, 11:48 PM
Hi Margaret
cl*pCavalier Dream Team-love it!cl*p

*Pauline*
8th September 2009, 02:03 AM
Have to add that Norma was kind enough to let me write something for the breed notes last year, can't say fairer than that, after all, we didn't start off on the right foot. There was plenty about Cavalier pets in the Breed Notes. I don't know how Norma managed week after week to come up with interesting things to write, I couldn't have done it.

I'll tell you who does write a good story, and that's Nanette. Remember the story of her husband jumping in the lake and saving her Cavalier and walking home in his pants because he wrapped the dog up in his shirt.

Sinead is very witty and knowledgeable, she'd be good too, health focussed, knows whose who.

Margaret writes fun stories too, remember Fonzi.

Wouldn't it be nice if we all help out the new Breed Notes writer, whoever they are, with our stories, there are so many on here, ones that make you laugh and ones that make you cry.

sins
8th September 2009, 09:58 AM
Wouldn't it be nice if we all help out the new Breed Notes writer, whoever they are, with our stories, there are so many on here, ones that make you laugh and ones that make you cry.

Now that's a very good idea Pauline.Of course the new candidate may wish to keep it strictly show related but if they wish to broaden the scope as Norma did,then certainly there are members here,both pet owner and exhibitor who have interesting cavalier experiences to share.There are plenty of dogworld subscribers floating around. Norma also has the space in her new role with Cavaliers.co.uk to include pet focused contributions.
Sins

Bet
8th September 2009, 11:08 AM
I don't think any one can disagree at the moment that the Cavalier World is in a mess.

The first priority is the Health of our Cavalier Breed,then there is the attitude of some Cavalier Breeders,who are complaining that the Breed has been given Bad Media Coverage.

If the Cavalier Breed had no Health Problems would there have been any notice taken about it.That is the answer in a Nut Shell ,there would have been no notice taken!

For years it has been the Breeders Know Best Attitude ,and just would not listen to us Cavalier Pet Owners when we were trying to tell Cavalier Breeders our Cavaliers were suffering from Health Problems that we are where we are to-day.

Now when we complain about the Health of our Breed we are accused of damaging it.

What we Cavalier Pet Owners want ,is to have the chance of our Cavaliers having Healthier, Longer Lives.,not just a Hit or a Miss with their Health.

I have asked this before ,why does the UK CKCS CLUB not say on their MRI SCAN LIST, which Cavaliers don't have a good Scan Result, which Cavaliers also have no signs of MVD on a Heart List.

It's no use the excuse being given , well the Prospective Cavalier Buyer has only to ask the Cavalier Breeder these questions, the response from some Breeders leaves a lot to be desired,

I will say again ,if Steve Mynott ,now that Norma has a Column on his Web Site ,would give a List of Cavalier Breeders who do carry out Health Tests on their Cavalier Breeding Stock, it would save some Cavalier Pet Buyers being humilated when asking whether the Breeder Health Tested or not.

Norma has said she want's to provide the Lovers of our Cavalier Breed with up-to-date News ,what could be being more News Worthy than a List of Cavalier Breeders who Health Test their Breeding Stock.

Margaret C
9th September 2009, 12:06 AM
Well I for one will miss Norma's breed notes on Dogworld.
Whoever takes up the role will have a hard act to follow.
Whether you agreed or disagreed with the content(If I recall I disagreed a lot:p!!),you'd be hard pressed to find a better round up of events in the cavalier calendar or in any other breed calendar for that matter.
Her notes generated controversy,provoked intense debate (and many a good snowball fight)while also managing to combine general content,from obituaries to show successes,get well wishes and lost cavaliers.
I'm sure she'll continue to do the same no matter where her Column is hosted.
Sins

I agree that Norma is a clever writer and her breed notes were always interesting.

I wonder why she has taken this step?
Perhaps it was an editorial decision. Her new position will scarcely give her the wide readership that the position of breed note writer for the most popular UK dog paper offered.

I must confess that I have always found the lack of balance in some of Norma's articles frustrating. The lack of health information was glaringly obvious to any one concerned with such issues and the only mention of SM or MRI guidelines seemed always designed to raise doubt and concern about the procedure.

There is such an article in her current notes. I hope Norma will make it known that this information is glaringly incorrect, as the writer obviously does not know that no contrast agent is used in mini MRIs.

Norma's move to this privately owned and rather out of date website ( just look at the articles ) means nobody else will now have the chance to correct any misinformation, or add their own comments, to Norma's notes.

Perhaps that is what makes this demotion worthwhile?

sins
9th September 2009, 12:26 AM
MY hubby used to work for a pharmaceutical company who manufactured the contrast media for Mri scans.It's not cheap to produce a sterile injectible pharmaceutical product and each bottle was approx 200 about eight years ago.
Not sure what current prices are but it would greatly add to the cost of a scan and would defeat the purpose of offering them at low cost.(methinks)
Sins

Bet
9th September 2009, 10:50 AM
I have just read the Article that Margaret has referred to where Norma has given the information about the Contrast Agent being used for MRI Scans.

This could'nt be a ploy for the Anti - Brigade for their excuse not to MRI Scan their Cavaliers for SM.

This very dangerous I think ,for Norma , OK ,she says it's her opinion ,to be mentioning that Vets are aggressively Marketing MRI Scanning ,and not to be telling the Owners of Cavaliers that their Cavaliers will be injected with a hugely Toxic Contrast Agent into the Dog's Veins for Enhancement of Image

Just wondering ,does Norma agree with MRI Scanning her Cavaliers for SM, at least there was maybe a chance of querying her about this when she was involved with writing the Cavalier Breed Notes for Dog World, but with her new involvement , no chance.

What about the Owner of the Web Site's Views, I notice all Dr C. Rusbridge's ,Neurologist, Articles have been removed.

Does Norma mean ,when she says she is Completely Agin, regarding MRI Scans .what are we to think...........

Bet
9th September 2009, 11:12 AM
I have just reread Norma's Breed Notes on her other List ,and noticed that she was quoting information from another Cavalier Breeder.

Maybe it should never have been quoted though ,it could be giving Folk who are MRI Scanning or about to be Scanning their Cavaliers worries.

Hopefully all this will be cleared up before any damage is done, and the requests for MRI Scans from Dr S Blott for her Research and EBV Information won't be being hindered in any way.

Bet
10th September 2009, 01:03 PM
There has been mention by Norma Inglis in her new Breed Note Site about the use Contrast Agent for MRI Screening for SM In CKCS or any other Breed.

This maybe has given cause for concern to Cavalier Owners, I can't Cross- Post ,but any-one interested can read on the CT List, a Post from the CKCS CLUB Health Rep about this matter and informatiom from Dr C Rusbridge , Neurologist.

I do think that when information is passed on like what Norma did, great care has to be being taken, I know over the years when I have mentioned about Cavaliers with a Heart Problem and their Vaccinations ,I always made it clear that any Cavalier Owner who had a Cavalier with a Heart Condition ,always to discuss with their Vet as to whether their Cavalier should be being Vaccinated or not.

Perhaps Norma should also have made it clear that any Cavalier Owner who had had their Cavalier MRI Scanned or was thinking about it ,should have mentioned about the Contrast Agent to the Person doing the MRI Scan, and not to rely on information from the Internet.

sins
10th September 2009, 05:39 PM
Many people now rely on information from the internet Bet.
The question regarding the administration(or not) of Gadolinium to a cavalier during a mini Mri scan has been settled decisively,once and for all.
The breed notes have been amended to reflect the reality.
This has been verified by the CKCS health rep having consulted with Claire Rusbridge.No pharmaceutical product is injected into a cavalier's bloodstream during a mini mri scan.
It might be a good idea if the people who arrange the Mri scans for their respective clubs could publicise this fact on the club webpage to reassure owners that the scan is a non invasive procedure.
At the end of the day,there will be those who will never be comfortable with using medical technology to assist their breeding programme. It's unlikely however to put off the vast majority of people who have decided to scan their dogs. Maybe if Mark Marshall is around he can tell us if their is a good demand for the upcoming scanning trip to Chestergates??
Sins

Margaret C
11th September 2009, 01:43 AM
The question regarding the administration(or not) of Gadolinium to a cavalier during a mini Mri scan has been settled decisively,once and for all.
The breed notes have been amended to reflect the reality.
This has been verified by the CKCS health rep having consulted with Claire Rusbridge.No pharmaceutical product is injected into a cavalier's bloodstream during a mini mri scan.
It might be a good idea if the people who arrange the Mri scans for their respective clubs could publicise this fact on the club webpage to reassure owners that the scan is a non invasive procedure.
At the end of the day,there will be those who will never be comfortable with using medical technology to assist their breeding programme. It's unlikely however to put off the vast majority of people who have decided to scan their dogs.
Sins

This artificially inflated scare about the use of Gadolinium has been a really good illustration how a small group of anti-scanning breeders will blow up a story with the intention of sabotaging efforts to help SM research.....

The first question about contrast agents in MRIs, as detailed in the 'new' breed notes was posted on CavalierChat at 1.24 pm on Monday.

Norma, the breed note writer is then told....

1:27 PM "No contrast agent is used. Clare Rusbridge was asked and confirmed this"

On Tuesday..........
03:56 PM "Will you be amending the breed notes before anyone else gets the wrong idea. There is too much mis-information out there already"

On Wednesday.......
7:07 AM "What is the problem with putting Maggies correction in now"
"What about the people who have scanned, will read this and be very worried about their dogs?"

On Thursday Dr Rusbridge's statement was eventually added to Norma's notes....

The Cavalier Club health representative, who has been the unfortunate dogsbody checking the facts with all the specialists, remarks........
"This has all cost a lot of time and effort (and worry to some). I hope that in the future people think a bit more before putting questionable data into the public domain and worrying people unneccessarily"

The writer of the breed notes, the very person who bears most of the responsibility for this false alarm, and for wasting the time of specialists and health representative, and for needlessly allowing frightening misinformation to remain for days, when she knew it was incorrect, replies very condescendingly...................

"As far as time and effort spent,I think clearing up the problem and allaying members fears are well worth it. I give my time and effort willingly and hope you do toohttp://www.cavalierhealth.co.uk/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif

Classic scenario, it happens time and time again with these dinosaurs. They do nothing constructive to help the breed, just try and sabotage other people's efforts.
Their arrogance when challenged is breath taking.

If you want to read the sorry story for yourself go to the cavalierChat forum.

HollyDolly
11th September 2009, 03:30 AM
Correct me if I am wrong but N. Inglis's post on CC at 0.528pm states:-

"That after ringing Chestergate to speak to Mr Skerritt and being told he was unavailable she spoke to a staff member who was able to answer
some of the queries she had. One being if a contrast agent was used i.e
Gadolinium in the screening of Cavaliers for SM. it appears as if this member of staff answered YES"

So can someone please tell is it used or not?


Nanette

scrumpymum
11th September 2009, 08:31 AM
No Gadiolium is not used in low cost SM Screening in any clinic

It is used for some other diseases, eg brain tumours, so maybe the question asked above was a lot more obtuse than suggested and the receptionist thought it was a general question about MRI. Seems to me that there is a deliberate attempt to mislead as it also does not state (as claimed) that gadiolinium is "often used" for SM screening in the FAQ Syringomyelia section of Dr Rusbridge's website. The reference to contrast is actually in section dedicated to MRI and the reference is with regard to brain tumours.

Bet
11th September 2009, 09:55 AM
Nanette,

If you go back to CT again ,you will see that N Inglis had spoken with Mr Skerritt later in the day , and he had contradicted his Staff member ,Mr Skerritt has said that he does not use Contrast Agent for MRI Screening for SM .

I think Norma ,if she has had any of her Cavaliers MRI Scanned for SM, was the Contrast Agent used ,she must know the answer ,unless she has had none of Cavalier Breeding Stock MRI Scanned for SM.

Bet
15th September 2009, 11:31 AM
Just had to comment again about the New Breed Notes on another Web Site, the Health Problems that are of such concern to Cavalier Pet Owners ,are conspicious by their absence ,will the reason be ,if they are not mentioned will they just be forgotten about !!

Or is it case of some Cavalier Breeders still wanting to bury their heads in the sand about them, and saying Health Problems in the Cavalier Breed ,WHAT HEALTH PROBLEMS.

HollyDolly
21st September 2009, 12:16 AM
Or is it case of some Cavalier Breeders still wanting to bury their heads in the sand about them, and saying Health Problems in the Cavalier Breed ,WHAT HEALTH PROBLEMS.



I agree with you there Bet, but while some people continue to swell the heads of some of our Top Breeders and Breed note writers then there is little hope.

Nanette

HollyDolly
21st September 2009, 12:17 AM
Or is it case of some Cavalier Breeders still wanting to bury their heads in the sand about them, and saying Health Problems in the Cavalier Breed ,WHAT HEALTH PROBLEMS.


I agree with you there Bet, but while some people continue to swell the heads of some of our Top Breeders and Breed note writers then there is little hope.

Nanette:swear:

Margaret C
21st September 2009, 01:23 AM
Dog World has the following notice in the Cavalier breed note section.......

"WE HOPE to be able to announce our new Cavalier breed note writers shortly. The breed has had a difficult year and has received a great deal of unwanted media attention. Our aim is to appoint two new writers who can accurately reflect the diverse range of opinions held by enthusiasts of the breed. So important do we consider this appointment that we have been talking to the Cavalier King Charles Spaniel Club about writers who can reflect the range of opinions that exist within this large and important breed"

I would guess it will be a long time before they get anyone.

The Cavalier Club has already approached a great many people, who have all refused. Those that are pro-health are not going to risk their show career by upsetting the top breeders, and those that are anti-scanning are not going to admit it publicly, whatever they are doing ( or rather, not doing ) in private.

I thought I would just tell those of you that are interested in the show world a little of what is going on.......

The cavalier show scene is in a bit of turmoil at the moment. A libellous post has been sent to an international cavalier list by someone who, it now appears, makes a habit of sending unpleasant emails in an attempt to influence judges.

Amazing how many people are coming forward who have received similar unpleasant communications from the same source.

To add to the damage, one of his very close friends seems to have accidently hit the wrong button :oops:and sent the same email again four days later. No chance then that anyone on that list missed it.

Bet
21st September 2009, 09:34 AM
Margaret ,thanks for the information, .

To say I am shocked about the revelations by Dog World trying to fill the post of the Breed Columnist ,is putting mildly.

This is disgraceful.,has the Cavalier Breed got a Future, when even Pro Health Campaigners are scared to put their Head Above thr Parapet.

I do know what happened around 20 years ago ,when Dr B Cattanach ,Geneticist , and Bruce Field .the UK CKCS Health Representative ,walked away in disgust because of the attitude of a good number of Cavaalier Breeders when they were trying to help the Cavalier Breed with the MVD Problem.

It now looks as if things are not much different to-day.

I know I have had to stand a lot of abuse for daring to mention the MVD and SM Problems in our Cavalier Breed,.What is wrong with some of the Cavalier Breeders not wanting the Cavalier Breed's, Health problems being talked about.??

I hate to say this ,but could the reason be ,that the Cavalier Breeders will be having a drop in their Income because of less Cavalier Puppies being sold. When you think about it ,it's the Pet Owners who will be buying most of the Cavalier Puppies that are being Bred.!