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View Full Version : Annual Boosters -Again



Brian M
6th October 2009, 01:49 PM
Hi

Its the same question again ,asked once more in case there are new or different views from last year.

Poppy and Rosie are due their booster injections this month ,should I go ahead and have them done ,:confused: Poppy was 3 in July and Rosie was 2 in July.

Sabby
6th October 2009, 02:06 PM
Brian
Thanks for bringing this up again. I have the same question.
After finding out about Ebonies heart murmur (Not MVD) I have had a few people blame the booster. I have read a lot about why not to give the booster and it makes perfect sense to me, but if any of my dogs would get anything because they are not protected I wouldn’t be able to forgive myself. My Rosie is over due her booster and I am waiting and waiting and Harley is due his first booster soon. I really don’t know what to do for the best.

Karlin
6th October 2009, 02:20 PM
I would be very cautious in believing what people say may or may not be due to boosters and vaccines as you'd think every tiny to major event must be the result of a vaccine. :rolleyes: I have never heard any evidence that a booster would induce a heart murmur and cannot imagine why there could be a cause and effect. This would be a genetic problem, or disease induced, not from a vaccine. A cardiologist would be the expert to ask. :thmbsup:

The vaccine guidelines have existed for several years now to only give boosters every three years. This will be very unlikely ever to change back to annually; as all evidence points to if anything, eventually giving them even *less often* (as studies emerge). But the US vet school and vet organisations recommendations remain the same. All the links needed are in the section on vaccines in the Health Library.

If people have questions on the correct protocols at any time, the best advice is to use the links I have in the vaccine sections as they go DIRECTLY to current vet organisation and vet school websites which is where you will get current information at all times. :thmbsup:

Rumor
6th October 2009, 02:24 PM
Brian, my dogs Vet goes on the 3 year protocol. Alternating years. Like if they get rabies this year it will be only rabies then not again until 2012. DHPP next year then not again until 2013. Heartworm test every 2 years since they are on prevention all year. Bordetella & Lepto every year because we live in the woods with a lot of critters around. Every Vet & every dog is different but this works for us. :)

Karlin
6th October 2009, 02:27 PM
Yes good point, it is the core vaccines that are on the three year recommendation. There is no rabies in the UK or Ireland so we don't get those at all over here. I get lepto annually and KC as well, as my dogs get boarded now and then. :) Some regions may not need lepto.

This is the direct link to vaccine info:

http://www.board.cavaliertalk.com/showthread.php?t=9264

cy1266
6th October 2009, 04:40 PM
You can always titer them if you don't want to get them injected :) My boys are almost 2 and 2.5 and I had them titered this year instead of getting them injected and they were very protected. They each only had a single parvo injection and a single distemper injection at around 12-14 weeks, and rabies at 9 months, and they are protected against both parvo and distemper (I did not titer for rabies). I sent their blood to Hemopet in California (run by Dr. Dodds), I'm not sure where you can send it in Europe...just an idea...it was only $100 total for the tests (including the heartworm antigen) for both dogs. A bit more expensive than getting the injections, but I didn't want to inject them if they didn't need it.

Yorkysue
6th October 2009, 09:55 PM
I do have mine done annually, but this is only because I put them in the Boarding Kennels when I go on hols - and Boarding Kennels won't accept dogs w/o annual boosters!!! Otherwise I wouldn't get mine done as often. But I would have to have them done for Lepto as we're near lots of water courses.

I do think that it's all a big con though by drug companies and vets to make loads of money from us.:swear:

WoodHaven
7th October 2009, 01:35 AM
I do have mine done annually, but this is only because I put them in the Boarding Kennels when I go on hols - and Boarding Kennels won't accept dogs w/o annual boosters!!! Otherwise I wouldn't get mine done as often. But I would have to have them done for Lepto as we're near lots of water courses.

I do think that it's all a big con though by drug companies and vets to make loads of money from us.:swear:

I think TDI (therapy dog) started to recognize titers as an adequate substitute for annual DHPP shots. We never got our dogs renewed because we refused to get annual shots. One of the drug companies came out with a 'three year' DHPP shot. But I think it is the same as their one year shot.

Jay
7th October 2009, 01:58 AM
I have started to titer mine. This year 3 out of 4 titers came out as being ok. The one with the low titer is one of my rescues. She received shots when I first got her. I don't know if she had any before. It may be that her next vaccine will actually be her first "booster". I will titer from now on, except for rabies. We have a 3 year rabies vaccine and they must be vaccinated for rabies for licensing in my county. My dogs are out and about at Rally and agility trials a lot, as well as training classes. My personal feelings are that I want to maintain their licensing so they get the rabies shot. Titering is a lot more expensive, but I think it is worth the money.
J.

Pat
7th October 2009, 07:06 PM
There is a good bit of incorrect and/or old information in these threads about vaccinations and titering.

A very good website (run by a Texas veterinarian with references to many published papers by Dr. Jean Dodds and Dr. Ron Schultz) all about vaccinations:

http://www.critteradvocacy.org/

I've used this site for years and it is always up-to-date - it includes an extensive bibliography of veterinary published papers by Dr. Jean Dodds and Dr. Ron Schultz, etc. There is a lot of info on this site and it takes a bit of time to go through it all. Some info that I've cut and pasted:

"Booster vaccines" or annual re-administration of modified live virus vaccines like
distemper and parvo virus do not provide added protection. In previously
vaccinated adult animals the antibodies from previous vaccinations block the
new vaccine. Antibody levels are not increased, memory cells are not increased.
(23 a) (Note from Pat - read about antibodies versus memory cells.)

The duration of immunity for modified live virus vaccines like K9 Distemper and Parvovirus
have been proven to be 7 years by challenge and 15 and 7 years respectively by serology. Memory cells persist for life.(23a,23b) (Dr. Schultz did most of these studies.)

Titers of antibody levels do not accurately predict immunity or lack of immunity. (NOTE FOR EVERYONE WHO IS RUNNING TITERS.)

There is no scientific data to support manufacturers label directions to
re-administer MLV vaccines annually.
---------------------------------------
See the chart for the new vaccination protocol and notice that you MUST booster at one year (after giving the puppy vaccs) - one person mentioned only giving parvo and distemper vacc at a few months and not boostering a year later. That does NOT give adequate immunity. Note again that latest conclusion is now that titers do NOT reflect immunity or lack of immunity.

http://www.critteradvocacy.org/Are%20We%20Over%20Vaccinating%20Our%20Pets.htm

And another chart:

http://www.critteradvocacy.org/Canine%20Vaccination%20Guidlines.htm

My advice is to read this information for yourself and make your own decisions about vaccs after discussing the material with your vet versus reading a thread and following someone's posted advice which may or may not be accurate. Print these out and share with your vet as there are many cited vet studies.

Pat

Pat
7th October 2009, 07:11 PM
There is a good bit of incorrect and/or old information in these threads about vaccinations and titering.

A very good website (run by a Texas veterinarian with references to many published papers by Dr. Jean Dodds and Dr. Ron Schultz) all about vaccinations:

http://www.critteradvocacy.org/

I've used this site for years and it is always up-to-date - it includes an extensive bibliography of veterinary published papers by Dr. Jean Dodds and Dr. Ron Schultz, etc. There is a lot of info on this site and it takes a bit of time to go through it all. Some info that I've cut and pasted:

"Booster vaccines" or annual re-administration of modified live virus vaccines like
distemper and parvo virus do not provide added protection. In previously
vaccinated adult animals the antibodies from previous vaccinations block the
new vaccine. Antibody levels are not increased, memory cells are not increased.
(23 a) (Note from Pat - read about antibodies versus memory cells.)

The duration of immunity for modified live virus vaccines like K9 Distemper and Parvovirus
have been proven to be 7 years by challenge and 15 and 7 years respectively by serology. Memory cells persist for life.(23a,23b) (Dr. Schultz did most of these studies.)

Titers of antibody levels do not accurately predict immunity or lack of immunity. (NOTE FOR EVERYONE WHO IS RUNNING TITERS.)

There is no scientific data to support manufacturers label directions to
re-administer MLV vaccines annually.
---------------------------------------
See the chart for the new vaccination protocol and notice that you MUST booster at one year (after giving the puppy vaccs) - one person mentioned only giving parvo and distemper vacc at a few months and not boostering a year later. That does NOT give adequate immunity. Note again that latest conclusion is now that titers do NOT reflect immunity or lack of immunity.

http://www.critteradvocacy.org/Are%20We%20Over%20Vaccinating%20Our%20Pets.htm

And another chart:

http://www.critteradvocacy.org/Canine%20Vaccination%20Guidlines.htm

My advice is to read this information for yourself and make your own decisions about vaccs after discussing the material with your vet versus reading a thread and following someone's posted advice which may or may not be accurate. Print these out and share with your vet as there are many cited vet studies.

Pat

Karlin
7th October 2009, 07:37 PM
Thanks for that -- I''d like to add your information to the vaccination section. I know titers have been under scrutiny for a while.

For the moment I am sticking with the vet school recommendations to booster at every three years but only at age 4 then age 7. I don't vaccinate cats or dogs after 7.

Hopefully new studies will bring further alterations to the recommendations.

Brian M
22nd March 2010, 11:58 AM
Hi

Sorry for raising this again but I have to take Daisy for her boosters at 2.00 PM today ,and the more I think about it I don't know if I should or to just cancel altogether, or take her and just ask for Lepto 2 ,as I am putting a lot of bird food in the garden and we have recently spotted a couple of rats around.I have put poison down in very safe areas where the girls have zero chance of getting near .

Daisy - Birthdate 09/01/2007

21/07/2007 blue vanguard sticker and green vanguard sticker

20/03/2007 NOBIVAC DHP LEPTO 2

14/03/2010 NOBIVAC DHP LEPTO 2

27/02/2010 no sticker hand written and signed LEPTO


If I do go I may even request that they do not check her heart or would that be irresponsible and selfish
and my part ,I have no reason to suspect there is anything wrong with her its just that when I take them I always fear the worst.

Dublin
22nd March 2010, 12:14 PM
having seen the very high incidence of parvo virus in Ireland because a lot of people give puppy vax & believe that covers them for life (??????) I would definalty vaccinate.

Tania
22nd March 2010, 12:27 PM
I looked into this a while back. After a vaccination Molly developed a hard large lump on
her neck. For the moment I have decided to vaccinate every three years (until 7) apart from
the Lepto which I will continue every year.

When I take them to the vets for routine things, its a good time to have them checked over
to nip anything in the bud! :)

tupup
22nd March 2010, 12:27 PM
Dear Brian plse dont not get her heart checked,you'll be relieved for another year when its a good result however if its not you need to know & she would need the right meds.Take a deep breath & get it over with good luck for today:hug:

Brian M
22nd March 2010, 01:36 PM
Hi

Just for general information ,I just phoned AXA to see if annual boosters were also a condition of her insurance cover and they answered that if an animal was affected by a problem that would have been excluded by them having their annual booster then you would NOT be covered . :confused:That seems rather open to different interpretation but would you want to involve yourself in a dispute you probably would not win with your insurance company ,that comment seems like a get out comment that they could file away in the bottom draw and use if needed in the future. .Or then again if your vet agreed with you that there was no need for annual booster would you be covered as you would be taking your vet advice ,still seems very vague ,its a case of heads you lose and tails they win.:confused:

jasperpaw
22nd March 2010, 02:22 PM
My boy has been vacinated every year since a pup and also had annual check ups each time. Pleae Brian get her heart checked each time, speaking with a dog with MVD and on meds for just over a year, if it`s nipped in the bud there is no reason for them not to have a normal life and be monitored regularly and have a better quality of life. Good luck and try not to worry.

sins
22nd March 2010, 02:38 PM
Definitely get her heart checked Brian,
To be fair, any dog should have it's heart checked prior to vaccination and a quick examination to assess if it's fit for vaccination.
I don't even have to ask my vet to check Daisy's heart,the moment she lands on the table in front of him it's the first thing he does...(because she's a cavalier)*
Secondly,you're paying a consultation fee anyway,you may as well get the maximum value from your appointment.:)
Sins

Brian M
22nd March 2010, 02:51 PM
Hi

All fine ,I think for my next pet I will go back to cats they are definitely easier and dont give all this heartache and worry .When she was checking Daisy's heart I was almost on my knees saying a prayer for good news only.:)

Nicki
22nd March 2010, 04:23 PM
I think you need to reserach this very thoroughly and decide on what is best for you and your dogs, also taking into consideration your lifestyle and therefore exposure to risk.

Pat's post was excellent, thank you for that.

Brian, sorry to worry you but there are just as many concerns about over vaccinating cats!!

Keeping the immune system healthy is very important - for ourselves and our companions, that is our first line of defence against infection/disease. So a good diet, exercise, fresh air, freedom from stress etc are all very important too.


ETA we always get hearts checked at EVERY opportunity - and it is essential this is done before vaccinating, also that their temperature is taken to make sure they are not fighting an infection. If the dog is off colour or showing any signs of less than perfect health, delay getting the vaccine.

Karlin
22nd March 2010, 10:35 PM
If anything, cats are at greater risk from annual vaccines -- they are more prone to developing cancers at the site of the jab.

I would really encourage people to read the informtion on vaccines in the library.

VET SCHOOLS DO *NOT* RECOMMEND VACCINATING ANY LONGER WITH AN ANNUAL BOOSTER!! They have not recommended annual boosters for many years now. Unfortunately this still is not followed by many vets, who continue to push unneeded annual boosters on clients and their cats and dogs.

All the major vet schools and all the US vet organisations recommend vaccinating with the boosters (the combination vaccine) only *every three years*. If anyone has a vet who recommends otherwise, print out the information from the actual vet organisations and vet schools and ask WHY. There is solid evidence that annual vaccinations at best, over-vaccinate and are an utter waste of money. At worst, they are believed to damage and overstress the immune system in some dogs, making them more susceptible to serious illness, and also there is always the small risk of an anaphylactic reaction.

If this information changes it will be clearly posted. The only way I would expect this recommendation to change is to shift to even FEWER vaccines as the evidence is that after the age 1 booster, a dog is protected for at LEAST three years, some for more like 7, some for their lifetime.

Pet owners simply must start challenging vets on their insistence on annual boosters! I won;t vccinate any dog over 7 now if it has had its three-yearly boosters as there's ample evidence by this age a dog is protected for life, and most of our dogs will have heart and perhaps neurological health issues by age 7-plus, and will not likely benefit from the stress on their system of an annual booster. So please, please read and understand the recommendations and carefully consider whether you really want to give annual vaccinations or stress elderly dogs with vaccinations.

NB: Many dogs do need lepto vaccines annually; will need kennel cough (bordatella) if kennelled, and may need rabies (though rabies too is moving towards three year vaccines in many locales).

team bella
22nd March 2010, 11:20 PM
Will regards to insurance,as you've already mentioned Brian, I think most of the insurance companies insist on vaccinations being upto date. Given the way the insurers like to wriggle out of paying up, its something to remember. Plus the breed that we love has more than its fair share of health issues so that can stack up costs for an uninsured dog. I understand your pondering.:confused:

Sabby
23rd March 2010, 09:44 AM
Every time it comes to vaccination I am racking my brain should I or not? Well since I had Rosie vaccinated I had nothing but problems. First her skin around her nipple got so bad it looked terrible and infected and yesterday I had to take her to the vets again because her glands are swollen and the vet was saying that she is fighting some infection in her body. I told the vet that I think it is the booster and he said; well their immune system gets lower when they have the booster.

I always would have the heart checked.

My friend doesn’t vaccinate her dogs and they are all insured and one of her dogs had diabetes and they paid out over three thousand pound, her other dog has SM and the insurance paid out for that as well.