PDA

View Full Version : what is hydrolysed animal proteins (royal canin ingredient)



Clairelou
9th October 2009, 09:56 PM
I am concerned about the ingredients in Royal canin, one ingredient is "hydrolysed animal proteins" does anyone know what this is? I know hydrolysed vegetable protein is the nasty MSG (monosodium glutamate) and I am not prepared to feed Lou ingredients in this category no matter how much she likes the food.

I have considered Burns but heard bad press about it, does anyone have experience of this 'cos it seems to contain good ingredients. I know this question has probably been asked many times before... can anyone reccomend a dry food with great ingredients?

Thnaks, Claire

Love my Cavaliers
9th October 2009, 10:05 PM
I'll be interested to hear what hydrolyzed animal protein is. Hopefully someone will know. I fed my dogs Burns for a while since I had heard really good things about it but it gave Oz horrible, horrible room-clearing gas! Such foulness coming from such a sweet looking little boy! I had to change food it was so bad. And even though it didn't bother the rest of the gang, I changed them all since it's so much easier to just feed one food.

Clairelou
9th October 2009, 10:15 PM
Ok now I am really confused, some sites say MSG is hydrolysed vegetable protein others say different.... Anyway, are hydrolysed animal proteins nasty? :confused::confused::confused:


Hi Bev, what do you feed now?

*Pauline*
9th October 2009, 10:38 PM
Hydrolysis is a chemical reaction during which one or more water molecules are split into hydrogen and hydroxide ions, which may go on to participate in further reactions.[1][2] It is the type of reaction that is used to break down certain polymers, especially those made by step-growth polymerization. Such polymer degradation is usually catalysed by either acid, e.g., concentrated sulfuric acid (H2SO4), or alkali, e.g., sodium hydroxide (NaOH) attack, often increasing with their strength or pH.

Hydrolysis is distinct from hydration. In hydration, the hydrated molecule does not "lyse" (break into two new compounds). It should not be confused with hydrogenolysis, a reaction of hydrogen.

Still with me or have you dropped off yet?! icon_nwunsure

Karlin
9th October 2009, 11:10 PM
MSG is vegetable protein based. I'd be cautious (let's say healthily skeptical) about the analysis you can read online about ingredients -- there's an awful lot of non-science out there. I also would not believe all you read about bad press on various dog foods. There is perhaps no area of animal care in which there is more rumour, innuendo, obsessions, prejudices and whisper campaigns than with pet food. It always amazes me that the same people who happily take home ice cream, crisps, crackers, biscuits, tinned foods etc will worry so much about what a dog eats. :) That's not to dismiss the serious problems that have arisen but a lot of the stuff out there is just hogwash.

Royal Canin and Burns are both excellent foods but for personal reasons people may not be happy with one or either. Depending on what particular obsessions people have with dog food :) -- eg grains, protein levels, type of protein, beet pulp additions, soy etc etc etc -- just about any food may not pass muster. Then there are the people that will only feed raw, and out at the very extremes, only raw road kill/prey animals. :rolleyes: (I am sure these same people then order a pizza for themselves from Dominos... :lol: ). The best approach is really to learn about ingredients, read as much as you can, and go with what you feel comfortable with. I've 'been there, done that' with most approaches including raw. (I've also fed my four cats almost nothing but Royal Canin cat food for a decade and have four VERY healthy, glossy, fit cats. :) Never have had a single serious health issue with any of them.)

I tend to feed homecooked mixed with a mid-cost quality kibble and fresh veg and fruit and range of treats. I feel really expensive kibbles are a waste of money but like expensive shampoos, if they make people happy and suit them and their dogs, than no harm (except to the pocketbook!) in buying them. If I could get a premade raw I'd rotate that in too but none is available in Ireland.

As a kibble I tend to feed Royal Canin or James Wellbeloved, usually rotating flavours of the latter. If I could easily get it I'd probably rotate that with something like Burns or Arden Grange.

On hydrolyzed animal protein:


Hydrolyzed Animal Protein (HAP)
Hydrolyzed Animal Protein (HAP) is normally used as a flavour enhancer and is made by treating bone material or the carcasses of poultry, cows or pigs with acid, heat and high pressure.

You can easily find kibble that won't contain this -- dog food is a booming market and there are more foods than anyone could feed in a lifetime, it seems sometimes! :lol:

Tania
9th October 2009, 11:20 PM
Molly is fed on ground fruit and veg plus raw chicken wings. This diet doesn't agree with Dougall he has Royal Canin and chicken wings. Does anyone know where Royal Canin is made, I have e mailed them and called them but have not had an answer yet!

sins
10th October 2009, 12:07 AM
Hydrolysed animal proteins are proteins which are broken down into the most basic form that the body can digest. Lysis = breaking apart.
The theory behind using hydrolysed proteins is that the molecules are so small, that the dog's immune system doesn't recognise them as foreign and can't set up an allergic reaction to them.
This means that you'll mainly find them in hypoallergenic or premium dogfoods.
Hope this helps.
Sins

Karlin
10th October 2009, 12:23 AM
Thanks Sins! :)

Royal Canin as far as I know is made either in the UK or France. France is the HQ. Not sure if they now manufacture in the UK.

Tania you may be following a set recipe for that diet combo, but if not you'd probably want to check on whether there's adequate nutrition in ground fruit/veg and chicken wings on their own? Most raw diets would be adding some additional things to supply complete nutrition but you are probably doing that :). However I'm wary of chicken wings as I've had two different dogs throw up long intact sharp pieces of bone half a day later (and they are not gulpers)... and a vet I know recently had a large breed raw-diet dog die very painfully from a broken raw chicken bone that pierced its digestive tract. Just not too sure about the safety of wings given my own experience and that's why I stopped feeding raw though I occasionally give thighs as they require a lot more chewing.

Love my Cavaliers
10th October 2009, 01:40 AM
Hi Claire - I feed Artemis. Not sure if you can get it in the UK. The first 4 ingredients are chicken, turkey, chicken meal, and salmon meal. It does have grains though - brown rice, barley. My dogs like it, but my dogs like EVERYTHING!!!

waldor
10th October 2009, 02:36 PM
It always amazes me that the same people who happily take home ice cream, crisps, crackers, biscuits, tinned foods etc will worry so much about what a dog eats. :)

Oh Karlin, that is soooo true, and we all need that 'reality check.' :xctly:

Before we got our 1st Cav from a breeder who feeds raw, I had never heard of such a thing, nor even 'grain-free' kibble. Our last dog lived to be 16 y/o, never had any major health issues, not even the skin problems that run prevalent in that breed until the last few years of his life. He was fed Pedigree kibble for years, then Purina One, then Royal Canin agreed better with his aging tummy. So there you have it.

What one feeds a dog is a preference, and people should not be judged harshly for their decisions. As it is, with our Cav, well, I feed her a prepared raw diet and Orijen kibble. I need a "project", as my hubby says. Our grown son is happily married and doesn't need me to mother him, and the DH doesn't want to be my 'project.' (I wonder why - LOL). So the dog gets all my attention and best intentions. (poor thing . . .bless her heart!)

I often wonder if the raw & meaty bones folks also eat organic, and so 'healthy', themselves, and never get Domino's. :-D Or Krispy Kreme. (or wedding cake!)

Tania
11th October 2009, 12:29 PM
Thanks Sins! :)

Royal Canin as far as I know is made either in the UK or France. France is the HQ. Not sure if they now manufacture in the UK.

Tania you may be following a set recipe for that diet combo, but if not you'd probably want to check on whether there's adequate nutrition in ground fruit/veg and chicken wings on their own? Most raw diets would be adding some additional things to supply complete nutrition but you are probably doing that :). However I'm wary of chicken wings as I've had two different dogs throw up long intact sharp pieces of bone half a day later (and they are not gulpers)... and a vet I know recently had a large breed raw-diet dog die very painfully from a broken raw chicken bone that pierced its digestive tract. Just not too sure about the safety of wings given my own experience and that's why I stopped feeding raw though I occasionally give thighs as they require a lot more chewing.



We had serious issues with Mollys weight, whatever commercial food I fed her, the weight would not shift. I took her to see Nick Thompson in Bath who specialises in Nutrition and has a more Hollisitic approach to things, not that I am saying Hollisitic works for everything, I appreciate it is taking a balanced view but it has a place.
We had an incident where Molly devoured a wing in one, fortunately it came straight back up. We changed to thighs and chopped them so we give them a mixture of the wing tips chopped up and the thighs plus a variety of fish. Molly also has the Higher Nature Ultimate Nutrition which contains 47 True Food Vitamins and claims to be a good quality product. As soon as we put Molly on any kind of commercial food, her weight balloons very quickly (we weigh it out carefully). We have big issues with Mollys joint and sm problems, I am paranoid about keeping her lean to the point we weigh her everyday:sl*p:
I am also very careful where I get the chicken from, I only buy from locals farms. I buy Neem sticks and get big bones from the farm for them to chew on as well.

http://www.highernature.co.uk/ShowProductFamily.aspx?ProductFamilyID=300

Mindysmom
11th October 2009, 01:51 PM
. As it is, with our Cav, well, I feed her a prepared raw diet and Orijen kibble. I need a "project", as my hubby says. Our grown son is happily married and doesn't need me to mother him, and the DH doesn't want to be my 'project.' (I wonder why - LOL). So the dog gets all my attention and best intentions. (poor thing . . .bless her heart!)



:badgrin::xctly:

As my two boys are out of the house now my dogs fall in the same category! Now instead of driving all over for sports and school I drive all over for agility and puppy classes. Mindy has resisted my efforts to make her my "project" so the other two boys are the lucky? ones!