Do we need a new ckcs club.........

But one that is more focused on Cavaliers as PETS rather than show specimens ?

Health would be a priority but showing and breeding would/ought to be included.

It could be a WWW CLUB with a small joining fee, non profit making, other than to keep it solvent and as much as possible going to research.

It is endless what could be achieved - so please share your thoughts.

I am not seeking to be in a position of control but keen to make things happen.

It doesn't have to be before Xmas 2009 but in my mind, sooner rather than later ?

Your feedback is awaited.

Mark Marshall.

What a fantastic idea. Count me in. This could be so useful to Cavalier owners. We could have health talks from the experts and raise money for charity. Even if the money raised keeps the club going in the early days.

An interesting idea, I really like the idea of it being focussed on pets and health, and hopefully giving lots of help advice on not buying from the wrong 'outlets' etc. And maybe organising fun days(once it gets established?)

If showing and breeding was included in it though, wouldn't it finish up being like the other clubs in the end? even though the emphasis starts off with pets, the showing side of it could take over. and how would the breeding side of it fit in? Sorry about all these questions, (don't feel that you need answer them) I'm just 'thinking aloud and trying to see what it could turn out like.:biggrin:

Yes a great idea, you have my full support, if you want me to do anything let me know

Yorkysue said:

An interesting idea, I really like the idea of it being focussed on pets and health, and hopefully giving lots of help advice on not buying from the wrong 'outlets' etc. And maybe organising fun days(once it gets established?)

If showing and breeding was included in it though, wouldn't it finish up being like the other clubs in the end? even though the emphasis starts off with pets, the showing side of it could take over. and how would the breeding side of it fit in? Sorry about all these questions, (don't feel that you need answer them) I'm just 'thinking aloud and trying to see what it could turn out like.:biggrin:

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Thinking aloud and brain storming is good. There is a lot to be thought about with a suggestion like this

New Club...........

Sue, please have your say. A brain storm is good for airing ideas.

Showing need not be Champ or Open types. Can be Companion or otherwise. Fun on a sunny day is what we want and classes like 'The most Gay tail'

We must start small and move slowly.

Breeding could include everything about the subject other than producing pups from your own bitch.

Regards Mark.

MARK MARSHALL said:

Fun on a sunny day is what we want and classes like 'The most Gay tail'

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Oh we might win something yet!

Just throwing ideas around, because I still don't know that this is the way to go.

I like the name companion cavaliers rather than pet cavaliers. That is a description that covers every cavalier wherever they were bred.

I would like to consider a breeding section, where the aim is to produce healthy companions with really good temperaments, although that concept will sit uneasily with some people.

There is still a strong feeling that 'genuine' breeders should be testing the standard of the dogs they breed by exhibiting them in shows. If you breed to supply pets for the non-show owner you are a BYB or puppy farmer.

I know many health testing, pet ownng, occasional breeders who just love having puppies.

I like the name Hobby breeder better- I doesnt have so many misinterpretations as BYB.

I love the idea though. I have been thinking alot lately of how I could raise miney for SM reasearch and what I could do.
It would be great to get to the larger fun shows next year.
Paws in the Park etc.
Obviously being nationwide there would need to be moderators in all corners so that travelling wasnt too much of an issue for some.
Maybe we could start with stuff that has nothing to do with Showing- the better things in life- all this fit for function malarky!! CavAgility/Obedience/Scent stuff.
I think people everywhere would be interested in doing fun stuff with their cavs and all the while establishing breeders to get on board that will breed for health rather than type.
Wasnt there a lady a while back who wanted to re create the breed using the papillion and so on?

Where do we start is the million dollar question but I am well and truly on board! Sounds great!

Rosettes to the Oldest Healthy Cavaliers.

If we want healthy dogs, why couldn't we award championships based on health and temperament not just appearance? I am NOT saying that appearance should count for nothing but often the healthiest person or pet is also the most beautiful. This would also start to select healthy breeding stock (?... somehow that sounds like the wrong word, though) and these champion HEALTHY dogs would be the dogs that were the most sought after as parents for puppies. With the limitations of how many times the dogs could be bred, it would also go part way toward avoiding the problem of so few dogs producing an overwhelming number of puppies. I cannot, for the life of me, understand why those healthy older dogs are not already preferred as sires and dams in the first place. A four year old healthy Cavalier would rank higher than a one year old healthy Cavalier. The health of puppies born from any parent could be one of the factors which added or subtracted from the total score. This might additionally start to show which dogs were carriers of disease even though seemingly unaffected themselves (the health of any puppies they had fathered or mothered as a factor in scoring).

It would also find more healthy dogs for contrasts in genetic studies because a contest which had all these health factors as a big part of any "showing" would find them. We all have heard rumors of 14 year old healthy Cavaliers. Where are they? Are they just urban legends or do they really exist? I am not suggesting that a dog that age be bred but it could be a prize dog whose lines would be sought after.

Ahhh! I am too tired to be writing this and I am not using the correct terminology so, if anyone can understand what I am trying to say and could restate it so that it made sense, I would welcome your help. I think that there may be something to this idea but I am not going to be able to communicate what I intend to communicate without some help here.

My son is having an acute "flare" of his chronic condition and I am just about worn out for the day. So, if anyone can help me so that what I am trying to say actually gets said, then the idea could be evaluated as a possible direction for judging in the alternative Cavalier Club. As I try to reread what I have written here, however, even I am getting confused.

I am CERTAINLY getting tired of hearing about some healthy older dog that someone just heard about existing. How about trotting that "puppy" out in the flesh instead of just using hearsay about such a dog as "proof" that there isn't really a Cavalier health crisis!

Sorry about this post. I almost feel like I am TWI (typing while intoxicated) but it isn't nearly as much fun as that might be!

Kathy

Originally Posted by MARK MARSHALL
Fun on a sunny day is what we want and classes like 'The most Gay tail'

*Pauline* said:

Oh we might win something yet!

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Oh I don't know, Pippin may give Dylan a run for his money on that one.icon_whistling:jmp2:

I can't quite see why we need a club in order to have fun with our Cavaliers - I seem to do it quite well anyway! What I think we need is more pet owners joining the existing Cavalier clubs (both national and regional) and starting to throw their weight around - ie turning up at AGMs, going to health talks (Geoff Skerrit's talking to Humberside Club about the latest SM research fairly soon), writing in magazines, going to fun days, health days etc. And taking our SM and MVD dogs along with us - in their buggies if necessary (I've entered my two NFC at the Midland Club Champ show in December, and Oliver will go along in his buggy; I also intend to go to the weekend next August at Blenheim Palace). Because I showed Oliver a bit in his younger days, I know quite a lot of show people by sight; they all love him, some of them know he has SM, and I shall use the opportunities to gently 'spread the word'.

Too many breeds (eg German Shepherds and Pekes) have multiple clubs which frequently fight and don't do their breeds any good at all. Don't let's join them! Strengthen the bridges, don't hack them down...

Kate, Oliver and Aled

PS As a rescue Aled has no papers, but is on the KC Activities Register (costs £10), so can go to breed shows NFC.

PPS If anyone wants a sponsor to join the Cavalier Club or the Midland Club, I'm happy to oblige.

Hi Kate

I tried to join the UK Cavalier Club last year but was refused membership for being outspoken democracy in action , but I was welcomed by South and West Wales Cavalier Club even though I live in N W England but that was thanks to a very educated and forward thinking President of that club .

Hi Kate

Just another thought I would be interested in joining also Midlands if they would care to have me and I promise to behave ,as surely more members equals more funds .

The secretary is Mrs Mary Rees, 'Little Oaks', 114 Hawkes Mill Lane, Coventry CV5 9FN (024 7640 3583). Ask for an application form, fill in your bit and send it on to me - I can find a second sponsor as well. If anyone queries why you want to join, the Midland Club was the first to organise group scanning at ChesterGates, after a talk by Geoff Skerrit nearly 3 years ago, so anyone would want to join such a forward thinking club! (We do have our share of ostriches, but also a good proportion of members who MRI their breeding stock.) About 40 members turned up to hear Sarah Blott last February as well.

Just behave - or Mary will never speak to me again!!

Kate, Oliver and Aled

PS The Midland Club looks after Discover Dogs at Crufts - Oliver and I have helped for about 5 years, and Mary really appreciates having someone on the stand who can talk (fairly) knowledgeably about SM; last year I took Oliver's scan to show people.

Hi Kate

And Scouts honour ( even though I was turfed out of them but I am a reformed football hooligan and alchohlic but we all have skeletons in the cupboard ) seriously though have faith .

PS The Midland Club looks after Discover Dogs at Crufts - Oliver and I have helped for about 5 years, and Mary really appreciates having someone on the stand who can talk (fairly) knowledgeably about SM; last year I took Oliver's scan to show people.

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Kate - are you there this year as I'll be there with Minnie and Cinders taking part in the KC Safe & Sound Scheme Demonstration.

woops - just realised you meant Crufts not the London Discover Dogs which is taking place next weekend - (senior moment!!)

Do we Need a New CKCS CLUB.....

Could I say ,not a New UK CKCS CLUB ,make the one wev'e got more Representative of the Cavalier Pet Owners or the Cavalier Owners who don't Breed or Show Cavaliers.

With the forth-coming Elections for the the Committee ,let's us hope that , I have seen Carol's name mentioned would be interested in putting her name forward .

antigone said:

... This would also start to select healthy breeding stock ...

Kathy

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Kathy, this is really the aim of the EBV scheme, Sarah Blott at the Animal Health Trust...

In the not too distant future, we should be able to obtain EBVs on our dogs, these are based on the results submitted to Sarah though.

It would be a huge help if everyone could health test their dogs and submit these results, as the results of the offspring affect the score for their parents.

See http://www.thecavalierclub.co.uk/start.html, health, EBV for more information...





Kate H

What I think we need is more pet owners joining the existing Cavalier clubs (both national and regional) and starting to throw their weight around - ie turning up at AGMs, going to health talks (Geoff Skerrit's talking to Humberside Club about the latest SM research fairly soon), writing in magazines, going to fun days, health days etc.

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Kate, I quite agree - if we set up an alternative club, this creates even more of a "them and us" environment. We want to work together, and playing together really helps this...

The more "Companion" people who join and take an active role, the better

The idea of a New Club...

Please don't try to create this 'Club' before the idea has properly been discussed. It has NOT been suggested that it be a UK CKCS Club and is in no way, ever going to challenge any of the existing Clubs in this Country.

If you want the type of Club that already exists - then join, but you won't find a Club in the sense of your local swimming, running, bowling Club.

I have been to a couple of CKCS Club shows and the entries were terrible. The members don't seem to want to properly support the events, other than if CC's are awarded of course.

My thread is more about a Club for anyone, UK USA or AUSTRALIA.

A www. type of experience, Just focused on Companion Cavaliers.

Regards Mark.