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momtobug
15th November 2009, 03:19 PM
I am new here. I posted on the other health site a couple of days ago that our new puppy, 12 weeks old today, has a curve in her spine.

The vet is optimistic, hoping it is orthopedic. We will have Xrays this week.
When I called the breeder 2 days ago she was non-committal. However we emailed yesterday asking for partial financial reimbursement to pay for tests and treatment. She emailed back and said she would like us to bring Ruby Mae back. She will give us a littermate or a refund. She is sad and wants to know what is wrong with the pup so she doesn't breed the line if she shouldn't. She feels that we should avoid future heartbreak now by giving her back. She told us to think of what's best for our daughter (age 9) and the dog.
We are already very much in love with Ruby Mae and don't want to give her back. Obviously we need to wait until work-up but suppose it is the worst? I don't believe, nor do I want my daughter to think, that pets are disposable. Am I being naive about the pain involved?

Thanks for opinions.

Jo with Ruby Mae

sins
15th November 2009, 04:02 PM
Hi Jo,
I'm sorry to hear about your pup's health issues.
When you go back to your vet you need to ask if the condition is stable or likely to worsen.Hopefully your vet can suggest if it's a malformation in the bones of the spinal column or caused by an underlying problem...and can indicate if the condition will be problematic or minor.
Your breeder sounds very supportive and is being extremely decent about this.
As a mother of young children I would have to put my feelings aside if I were in the same situation.I would give the breeder a copy of the reports and return the pup.
I know few will agree with me,but I would tell my child that the breeder accidentally gave the wrong pup and that she needs her special puppy back but that she has another lovely puppy instead.
Personally I would take the littermate...

Sins

Tania
15th November 2009, 05:05 PM
Whatever you do do not take the puppy back, the breeder will have her
put to sleep.

Ruth
15th November 2009, 05:14 PM
That would be my fear too I'm afraid.

RodRussell
15th November 2009, 05:24 PM
...We are already very much in love with Ruby Mae and don't want to give her back. Obviously we need to wait until work-up but suppose it is the worst? I don't believe, nor do I want my daughter to think, that pets are disposable. Am I being naive about the pain involved?

I'm not sure what "the worst" is here. Since you posted this under the "SM and MVD" section, I assume you suspect it might be CM/SM. I would be surprised that it is CM/SM, because of the age of the puppy and the necessary progressiveness of the disorder. Scoliosis can be one of SM's symptoms, but my understanding is that it is relatively rare and usually develops very late in the progression.

I suggest that you accept the breeder's offer to replace Ruby Mae with a littermate. The breeder seems to be saying the right things, and whether she proceeds with surgery or does not, should be a decsion the breeder should be making, considering her age. Of course, if there is a written contract between you and the breeder, it would govern this issue, if health is included in it.

Had the breeder discovered this problem before selling Ruby Mae to you, she would not have been offered to you. I gather the timing for all of this has been no more than a week or two, considering Ruby Mae's current age.

Karlin
15th November 2009, 05:25 PM
Rod, actually it is the reverse -- scoliosis usually is an SM symptom in young affected pups, actually, and often corrects itself by age 1 or so.

Without knowing who she is (please don't post her name or any links though), I'd have suspicions about the breeder myself if the only offer was to have you bring the puppy back and ony made after you went back and asked for financial support. She is decent to offer to replace the puppy (better than many would do!) but I'd assume she will put to sleep, not spend anything finding out what the problem is; especially if she is not a well-regarded breed club show breeder who has shown a commitment to taking back and keeping dogs. I would be suspicious she simply does not want the dog publicly known as having this problem not least as she was so unsupportive the first time around. Any caring, responsible breeder would immediately have wanted to know more, been in touch, and started to talk about options for you and for her. Coincidence that this offer comes as you may be facing expenses and asked for help? icon_nwunsure

Whether you choose to return her for a replacement pup is a separate and difficult decision :flwr:. It might indeed be a better choice but that is a decision only you can take as there are so many variables to consider. I am not sure there would be less heartache in giving her up though -- a lot would depend on what happens next, depending on where she goes. I think I'd rather get a diagnosis and then make that decision. I just think it extremely unlikely the breeder will do anything but pts and am always suspicious about sudden changes of heart that also offer an easy and cheaper way out of a problem.

I would still say that a vet -- who is not a specialist and unlikely ever to have seen SM or its symptoms -- probably is not the most informed opinion on possible problems here, with all due respect to vets. I do know many neurologists would assume a high chance of SM in a cavalier puppy with scoliosis and thus again -- I do think even an orthopedist view needs to be accepted with caution and a second opinion got from a neurologist unless the cause is patently obvious and could not possibly be due to syinxes causing the puppy to twist. I know an awful lot of SM dogs put through unnecessary surgeries by orthopedists convinced the problem was orthopedic when it was neurological.

What does your homing contract with the breeder state, incidentally?

Karen and Ruby
15th November 2009, 05:26 PM
It is SO tough when there are children involved and my heart goes out ot you.
I dont have children of my own but I am very very close to my neice who is 9 and nephew of 2.
Children do bounce back quickly from problems but at the same time she will be learning alot about life by you sticking with Ruby Mae.
Kirsty has learnt alot about dogs and illness by me talking to her very frankly about Rubys problems and she knows how to touch her and where not to and she also understands alot about her condition (SM) she coped so well when her own Rabbit died and although nothing can prepare someone for the death of a loved pet she spoke openly about it rather than becoming withdrawn and was very grown up about it all.
If I knew that at 12 weeks old Ruby was going to have these problems and had the offer to give her back I certainly wouldnt.
The breeder will most likely have her PTS but it is impotant that she knows everything she can about Ruby Maes issue for the future of her own.

I wish you well with whatever you chose and make a desision based on what is best for Ruby Mae and your family at the time and try not to think about too many "What If" scenarios x

RodRussell
15th November 2009, 05:34 PM
I have read no factual basis thus far for concluding that the breeder will put Ruby Mae down. I think the best of breeders would make the same offer as this one has. I know that my dogs' breeders would make that offer, and I also know, for a fact, that they would not put the puppy down unless it was a last resort.

RodRussell
15th November 2009, 05:35 PM
Rod, actually it is the reverse -- scoliosis usually is an SM symptom in young affected pups, actually, and often corrects itself by age 1 or so.

I defer to you, Karlin.

Karlin
15th November 2009, 05:36 PM
This is from Clare Rusbridge's older information sheet on SM (it has been replaced by a more medical sheet aimed at vets):


What clinical signs can the vet look for if I choose not to have an MRI?

Typically clinical signs are only seen when there is syringomyelia. The damage to the spinal cord and the interruption of CSF flow results in pain and abnormal sensations of which the most common signs are crying and shoulder scratching, especially when excited or walking on a lead. The scratching is usually to one side but may become both. There is not evidence of skin or ear infections. Unlike scratching for skin disease the dogs often walk and scratch at the same time and make little contact with the skin.

Affected dogs are also sensitive around the head, neck and forelimbs. They often cry/yelp/scream for apparently no reason (some of these dogs may have unfair reputations for being a baby). Pain may be related to head posture and some dogs prefer to sleep or eat with their heads up. Excitement, barking, coughing, suddenly rising or exertion can increase the fluid pressure in the syrinxes and precipitate the scratching and/ or crying. Some severely affected young dogs develop a neck scoliosis i.e. their neck is twisted. Other affected dogs may develop a wobbling hind limb gait (pelvic limb ataxia) and/or a forelimb weakness (thoracic limb weakness). Signs are usually recognized between 6 months and 3 years however dogs of any age may be presented. Mildly affected dogs may only have occasional signs of pain.

This is still available on the Canadian club site:

http://cavaliercanada.com/content/view/61/199/

Karlin
15th November 2009, 05:45 PM
On weight of evidence but without knowing who the breeder is, I'd suspect she will simply pts. She may be right to take that approach -- if this is SM, a puppy this young showing these symptoms would likely be severely affected. But the sudden interest in replacement only came when financial support was asked for. That to me, says volumes.

If the pup has severe SM, the only real medium to long term option for the puppy for anything but short term palliative care would probably be surgery, which is expensive.

Given the choice, the better option may be to take a replacement puppy -- however if her dogs are closely related and she has scanned none of them, a replacement especially a sibling would be likely, a high risk.

All of these are very difficult decisions to take and a burden for anyone. Jo if you want, PM me the info on the breeder and if I know who they are or the kind of breeding set-up they have, it may be easier to say to work with the breeder.

chloe92us
15th November 2009, 06:20 PM
Wow, this is a hard one. If it were me, I would push for a refund and keep the pup. However, if your breeder says she would give you a replacement pup and not a refund, then I would take one! You'll probably end up getting another Cavalier down the road anyway- they're addicting! :)

As for sheltering children, I believe they have to learn about death too. Dealing with the death of a pet is very difficult for children and adults, but it helps them learn to deal with losses that they will face throughout their life. Good luck in your decision.

For what it's worth, my first Cavalier (Casey) developed a murmur prior to her 1st birthday. I demanded a refund, and received one. But there was no way I could give her back. Casey's littermate had patella problems. Instead of a refund, she took another pup and was thrilled.

momtobug
15th November 2009, 06:36 PM
The breeder did offer full refund if we dont want a replacement pup, did I neglect to mention that?
She also said she wants to do what is "RIGHT" for the dog and my daughter. I lay in bed awake last night wondering if it were unethical to keep the dog alive if I knew she had a serious disease. But she is certainly a happy pup and enjoying life at the moment. No sign of neurological disease. Boy she can run like the wind chasing balls and leaves.
My gut right now is to keep Ruby Mae and give her the best life we can no matter how long she has. Not that we can afford to give her a high end life; but we can fill her with love. (she almost slept in our bed instead of her crate last night due to this way of thinking but good sense prevailed since we are trying to train her).

Karlin her curve is not in her neck area, it is lower. Any good sign there?

Thanks for all the replies. I was hoping to hear from people who have dogs with SM and if it is to bring a life of heartache.

Love my Cavaliers
15th November 2009, 06:46 PM
I think I would go back to an orthopedist and have the x-rays taken. They should be able to tell if it is a clear-cut case of the diagnosis you mentioned on your other thread. Sorry, can't remember what it was called. In my mind I interpreted it as something to do with extra bones or cartilage or something like that, which seemed to make sense since the way you described it was just one side of her ribcage, not necessarily a curved spine (even though you called it that). Please correct me if I'm wrong. If that diagnosis is given by a competent orthopedic surgeon, not a vet, then I would discuss with him/her the prognosis and treatment before making any decisions about returning Ruby Mae. It may be something that surgery will be able to correct allowing her to live a good quality life once it is corrected. I would also determine if it is a fluke of nature or a hereditary condition, for that would influcence your decision whether to take another pup from the same litter. Whichever way you decide to go, this is a wonderful teaching moment for your child. Karen might be able to give you some pointers about talking with your daughter about Ruby Mae since it seems like she has had some deep conversations about similar isues with her niece. Good luck to you. We are all here to offer support whatever your decision is.

RodRussell
15th November 2009, 06:53 PM
In he July 2005 article, "Neurological diseases of the Cavalier King Charles spaniel", Dr. Rushbridge confirms that younger dogs are most likely to have scolosis due to CM/SM, and in that article, she includes a photo of a 16 month old female Cavalier with a twisted neck.

However, she also wrote in that article that:

"Clinical signs of syringomyelia and occipital hypoplasia are usually recognised between five months and three years of age. However, dogs of any age may be presented, and dogs with more severe disease tend to be presented before two years of age."

And in her accompanying chart, she states that the "Age when signs start" is greater than 5 months.

So, this problem in a 12 week old puppy may well be due to another cause, such as a birth defect.

Love my Cavaliers
15th November 2009, 06:57 PM
You posted your last message while I was writing my last one - so this is an addendum in response to your last question. We got Riley at 11 months oldd and she already displayed neurologic symptoms, but I didn't know about SM. I thought it was due to a very difficult birth. She was finally diagnosed with SM at age 5 and had decompression surgery shortly after diagnosis. She has been the most wonderful dog, before and after surgery. She is living a good quality life. She runs and plays and seems happy. She is the same sweet loving dog she was before surgery - her personality did not change. Having SM is not necessarily dooming a dog to a life of pain - you just have to find the right medications for her. EVen after surgery, SM dogs are still on medication. While the initial diagnosis of SM is devastating and heartbreaking for the owner, you come to a point in which you realize that you just need to love your dog and enjoy their lives right now. Since I don't know if Riley's SM will cause her to die earlier than otherwise - I decided to stop obsessing about it and just get on with loving her like I do my other dogs. I do admit that I treat her and think about her a little differently - I think it's hard not to. But she is a happy dog, she seems pain free right now and she is happy to be a part of her "pack".

Tania
15th November 2009, 07:14 PM
I have read no factual basis thus far for concluding that the breeder will put Ruby Mae down. I think the best of breeders would make the same offer as this one has. I know that my dogs' breeders would make that offer, and I also know, for a fact, that they would not put the puppy down unless it was a last resort.

I am inexperienced in dealing with breeders. If the breeder took Ruby Mae back, what would she do with her, or what would other breeders do with a sick puppy that has been returned?

sins
15th November 2009, 07:36 PM
So, this problem in a 12 week old puppy may well be due to another cause, such as a birth defect.
I would tend to agree with Rod on this one.
It might be a malformation in the shape of the vertebrae and have absolutely nothing to do with CM/SM.It may not even require veterinary intervention.
Until your vet has the x rays back and you can view them and have a qualified opinion then we can't reach any conclusions.
Again there's no guarantee your breeder will PTS....but in a worse case scenario you have to consider the fact that you may have to do this yourself eventually.As unpalatable as we all feel it is, ocasionally PTS is the most humane option.
However, it's best not to think that far ahead.
Just get the results first,it may not be as bad as you fear.
Then learn as much about the condition as you can.
Decide if it can be managed while maintaining a good quality of life for the pup.
Finally if it is a serious condition,you need to seriously consider the impact of a special needs dog on your family.The breeder has offered to relieve you of the responsibility,and replace the pup or give a refund.
There is nothing morally or ethically wrong in giving back the pup.
Good luck with the test results and let us know what shows up.
Sins

RodRussell
15th November 2009, 08:19 PM
...If the breeder took Ruby Mae back, what would she do with her, or what would other breeders do with a sick puppy that has been returned?

We could speculate about that all day. It could range from immediately putting the puppy down, if the breeder's vet was willing to do so, to having an MRI and x-rays and, once finding out the problem, paying for surgery and recovery and keeping the dog for the rest of its natural life.

WoodHaven
15th November 2009, 08:38 PM
Rod, actually it is the reverse -- scoliosis usually is an SM symptom in young affected pups, actually, and often corrects itself by age 1 or so.

Without knowing who she is (please don't post her name or any links though), I'd have suspicions about the breeder myself if the only offer was to have you bring the puppy back and ony made after you went back and asked for financial support. She is decent to offer to replace the puppy (better than many would do!) but I'd assume she will put to sleep, not spend anything finding out what the problem is; especially if she is not a well-regarded breed club show breeder who has shown a commitment to taking back and keeping dogs. I would be suspicious she simply does not want the dog publicly known as having this problem not least as she was so unsupportive the first time around. Any caring, responsible breeder would immediately have wanted to know more, been in touch, and started to talk about options for you and for her. Coincidence that this offer comes as you may be facing expenses and asked for help? icon_nwunsure

Whether you choose to return her for a replacement pup is a separate and difficult decision :flwr:. It might indeed be a better choice but that is a decision only you can take as there are so many variables to consider. I am not sure there would be less heartache in giving her up though -- a lot would depend on what happens next, depending on where she goes. I think I'd rather get a diagnosis and then make that decision. I just think it extremely unlikely the breeder will do anything but pts and am always suspicious about sudden changes of heart that also offer an easy and cheaper way out of a problem.

I would still say that a vet -- who is not a specialist and unlikely ever to have seen SM or its symptoms -- probably is not the most informed opinion on possible problems here, with all due respect to vets. I do know many neurologists would assume a high chance of SM in a cavalier puppy with scoliosis and thus again -- I do think even an orthopedist view needs to be accepted with caution and a second opinion got from a neurologist unless the cause is patently obvious and could not possibly be due to syinxes causing the puppy to twist. I know an awful lot of SM dogs put through unnecessary surgeries by orthopedists convinced the problem was orthopedic when it was neurological.

What does your homing contract with the breeder state, incidentally?

I'd have to side with Rod on this. We are talking about an 11 WEEK old pup. The bones etc... are still EXTREMELY soft and growing at such a rate that curvature of the spine caused by SM/CM would be odd. 6 months YES, 1 year yes... One of my dogs had scoliosis at 9 months, it didn't get any better. I'd really like to see what my girls MRI looks like, but to spend close to 3000.00 when she isn't getting any surgery for mild symptoms is too much.

Tania
15th November 2009, 08:40 PM
I totally understand how difficult this situation is, especially with a young family to consider. I am positive with Karlins' help you will reach the right decision. I wish you, Ruby Mae and your family well. Good luck.

WoodHaven
15th November 2009, 08:42 PM
You posted your last message while I was writing my last one - so this is an addendum in response to your last question. We got Riley at 11 months oldd and she already displayed neurologic symptoms, but I didn't know about SM. I thought it was due to a very difficult birth. She was finally diagnosed with SM at age 5 and had decompression surgery shortly after diagnosis. She has been the most wonderful dog, before and after surgery. She is living a good quality life. She runs and plays and seems happy. She is the same sweet loving dog she was before surgery - her personality did not change. Having SM is not necessarily dooming a dog to a life of pain - you just have to find the right medications for her. EVen after surgery, SM dogs are still on medication. While the initial diagnosis of SM is devastating and heartbreaking for the owner, you come to a point in which you realize that you just need to love your dog and enjoy their lives right now. Since I don't know if Riley's SM will cause her to die earlier than otherwise - I decided to stop obsessing about it and just get on with loving her like I do my other dogs. I do admit that I treat her and think about her a little differently - I think it's hard not to. But she is a happy dog, she seems pain free right now and she is happy to be a part of her "pack".

Bless you Bev... That was very poignant and very true.

WoodHaven
15th November 2009, 08:46 PM
I am inexperienced in dealing with breeders. If the breeder took Ruby Mae back, what would she do with her, or what would other breeders do with a sick puppy that has been returned?

That depends on the breeder and on the prognosis of the pup. The first thing I would do is get a diagnosis that more than one vet agreed with. If the prognosis was that the pup was suffering from a condition and it couldn't be fixed, the only option would be to pts.

Karlin
15th November 2009, 09:24 PM
Yes it is true that generally most more severely affected dogs will show symptoms between 5 months to 3-4 years.

But Clare also clearly states on her site and in her documents that she has diagnosed puppies at 12 weeks; others have noticed problems as young as 8 weeks; and I know of two puppies of around 12 wks who were diagnosed *because they had scoliosis*. As Clare notes in her SM document, it is severely affected dogs that show scoliosis, and they tend to show it only as puppies.

That is why I am simply saying I would not proceed solely on the basis of what an orthopedist says IF that involves any kind of surgery or invasive procedure.

I can guarantee you that any neurologist would say that a cavalier puppy showing scoliosis probably needs to be checked for SM as well before any invasive procedures for presumed other causes are carried out.

In the current situation, or if this were a puppy in rescue, I'd want to get a basic diagnosis from a specialist and then consider the possibilities. I totally agree with Sins:


Just get the results first,it may not be as bad as you fear.
Then learn as much about the condition as you can.

I would also hazard that one look at the breeder's website, if she has one, will give a pretty good idea on whether she is likely to simply want the dog back to pts or would care for the puppy, if Ruby Mae were returned.

The fact that Ruby Mae was showing problems within a week of arriving would suggest she can hardly have been properly vet checked immediately before the breeder homed her in the first place. Surely a birth defect causing off bumps on her side would have been picked up in a basic vetcheck? Or noticed by any good breeder handling her puppies regularly? My suspicions here are based on red flags raised in the very first posts from Jo.

Karlin
15th November 2009, 09:28 PM
Clare's website:


What age of dog is affected by syringomyelia?

The youngest reported dogs with syringomyelia have been 12 weeks old. Dogs may be presented at any age although the majority of dogs (approximately 45%) will develop first signs of the disease within the first year of life and approximately 40% of cases have first signs between 1 and 4 years old. As many as 15% develop signs as mature dogs with the oldest reported case first developing signs of disease aged 6.8 years. Due to the vague nature of signs in some cases and lack of awareness about the disease there is often a considerable time period (mean 1.6 years) between the onset of signs and confirmation of a diagnosis.

Karen and Ruby
15th November 2009, 09:46 PM
Thanks for all the replies. I was hoping to hear from people who have dogs with SM and if it is to bring a life of heartache.[/QUOTE]


Its not a life of heartbreak but it is a good few months or so
I think I would put myself in the "getting there" category!

Ruby lives a very good life but only since we have found the right medications to give her...that look a few months of trying.
She does competitive obedience (which I may add isn't anyway near as nerve racking as before she was diagnosed) my outlook has changed since and to be honest as long as she enjoys it I could care less whether she wins or looses!!
She does Agility aswell once a week and she flys round the course barking as she goes, much to the amusement of the other dogs and owners (they call her a collie in a cavvie body)
She walks every day for miles and swims once a week too- she plays rough and tumble with our other youngster Charlie and she doesnt know any different.
I have learnt alot about myself since her diagnosis and I have taken a leaf out of her book and live life to the full with her alongside me! Dont get me wrong she still has her bad days and on those we cuddle up and chill out together with out a care in the world.

With talking to your daughter just let her take it in in her own time- and just expain that Ruby Mae is a very special dog that you have taken as she needs special care and just give her some child friendly info on SM (or whatever it turns out is the problem)
She is old enough to understand that Ruby Mae has an illness just let her deal with it as she feels best- Kirsty wrote a letter to Ruby and I have kept it along with a few other little keep sakes of my own. I read it to her occasionally Its very sweet xx

RodRussell
15th November 2009, 10:31 PM
Yes it is true that generally most more severely affected dogs will show symptoms between 5 months to 3-4 years.

But Clare also clearly states on her site and in her documents that she has diagnosed puppies at 12 weeks; others have noticed problems as young as 8 weeks; and I know of two puppies of around 12 wks who were diagnosed *because they had scoliosis*. As Clare notes in her SM document, it is severely affected dogs that show scoliosis, and they tend to show it only as puppies.

That is why I am simply saying I would not proceed solely on the basis of what an orthopedist says IF that involves any kind of surgery or invasive procedure.

I can guarantee you that any neurologist would say that a cavalier puppy showing scoliosis probably needs to be checked for SM as well before any invasive procedures for presumed other causes are carried out. ...

I now recall Dr. Rusbridge finding a 12 week old with SM. It shows that even a research paper written in 2005 can be somewhat out of date by 2008 or 2009 in a field where much research continues to be done.

I would hope that "any neurologist" would recommend a check for SM before operating on the spine. Certainly any neurologist schooled in CM/SM would, but, unfortunately, right here in Florida, I know of a neurolgist who knows very little about CM/SM in Cavaliers.

ppotterfield
16th November 2009, 02:49 PM
Since I don't know if Riley's SM will cause her to die earlier than otherwise - I decided to stop obsessing about it and just get on with loving her like I do my other dogs. I do admit that I treat her and think about her a little differently - I think it's hard not to. But she is a happy dog, she seems pain free right now and she is happy to be a part of her "pack".

Very good advice. You have to find that balance between being vigilant and being obsessed. For some that it more difficult than others. You need to be honest with yourself about how you and your family will handle a major disability, emotionally and financially.

If the breeder is an ethical breeder, and will do the right thing by this puppy, then I would not be embarassed about making the decision to return her. I think the explanation to your daughter that the puppy has some special health issues that the breeder, who has lots and lots of experience, is best able to handle, and the puppy needs to be with her, is a good approach.

If the breeder is not an ethical person, and you believe she would PTS a puppy for her convenience, and not because medically it is the right thing to do, then I think you need to keep the puppy and take the best care of her you can.

JMHO

Margaret C
16th November 2009, 04:10 PM
I'm so sorry that you are facing this dilemma

There are so many unknowns in this situation, it is difficult to do anything but speculate until there is a definite diagnosis.

Ruby Mae has some abnormality of her spine. What that abnormality is caused by is not yet known, so her future prognosis cannot be known.

The breeder has done everything that you would expect from a responsible person, but if she has Ruby Mae back she will also need a diagnosis before she can know what care Ruby Mae needs.
She may not have the room, or money, or inclination to keep a sick dog, perhaps for many years. It is very possible that if Ruby Mae does prove to have ongoing health problems the breeder will make the decision to have her put to sleep.

Only you can decide whether to return her or not, as you are the family that must live with the consequences.
I understand the concerns about how this will affect your daughter, but from what I have read Ruby Mae and your family have already bonded and will be even more bonded by the time you know for sure what is wrong with your pet.

If you were going to replace her, my guess is you would have done it by now.

Best wishes

SamT
16th November 2009, 08:04 PM
Whatever you do do not take the puppy back, the breeder will have her
put to sleep.


I agree with Tania. The breeder is protecting themselves, they are in it to make money and a sick pup does not make them money. I would be very suspicious of the breeder and what they are going to do with the pup once its returned to them.

Its a hard decision. Speak to your vet and ask long term how healthy the pup will be etc and decide as a family if you are willing to take this on. If no see if someone else is willing.

heather r
16th November 2009, 08:13 PM
No comments other than to offer my condolences to you for having to make such a decision at a time that you should be enjoying your new addition.

Let us know what you have decided after e-mailing Karln.

Heather R