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Bet
3rd December 2009, 10:50 AM
In an Article in this week's Dog World,says that the overwhelming calls for Health Testing have been answered by the Kennel Club in Response to the APGAW Report.

The Article says the KC 's Reply is just Political Spin and Bluster in the APGAW's call for action.

The Article goes on further to mention that Government Regulation may be needed to ensure that something is done about Unethical Breeders and Puppy Farmers most of whom are out-side our Sphere and Influence of the KC.

The hard -hiting Article says that the KC knows exactly who those Puppy Farmers and Big Breeders are.

The Kennel Club Registers Litters from them every week of the Year

Why can the KC now refuse to Register Father to Daughter and Mother to Son Matings ,but not enforce any Health Requirements.

Bet
3rd December 2009, 12:42 PM
Just to say ,have received a Xmas Card from a Lady whose Cavalier has developed MVD. This applies also for the Cavaliers who will develope SM.

I really think with the Kennel Club's Attitude we are going no-where fast,but with the Leaflet now from UK CKCS CLUB ,we should make Cavalier owners aware of it, but also say that for the Future of our Cavalier Breed ,let Prospective Cavalier Buyers be made aware ,how important it is for them to ask to see a Health Certificate from Cavalier Breeders that Health Screening has been carried out on their Breeding Stock.

I feel that all of us who are so concerned about the Health of our Cavaliers,will now have to go down this avenue alone.

To say I am disappointed with the KC ,is putting it mildly.

ByFloSin
3rd December 2009, 01:21 PM
Just to say ,have received a Xmas Card from a Lady whose Cavalier has developed MVD. This applies also for the Cavaliers who will develope SM.

I really think with the Kennel Club's Attitude we are going no-where fast,but with the Leaflet now from UK CKCS CLUB ,we should make Cavalier owners aware of it, but also say that for the Future of our Cavalier Breed ,let Prospective Cavalier Buyers be made aware ,how important it is for them to ask to see a Health Certificate from Cavalier Breeders that Health Screening has been carried out on their Breeding Stock.

I feel that all of us who are so concerned about the Health of our Cavaliers,will now have to go down this avenue alone.

To say I am disappointed with the KC ,is putting it mildly.

In all fairness to the K.C. Bet, I think there may be an issue that you are not aware of. I only came across it when ringing the KC about my Holly's breeder who had the audacity to breed another litter the very next season after producing a litter with 2 autoimmune compromised pups in it, also from the same mother.

After being transferred to several departments I was finally put through to a lady who seemed to know what she was talking about. She explained to me that the KC as a registered charity would be in trouble with the Charity Commissioners if they went against their terms of incorporation as a charity by refusing to register puppies.

Bet, they do say the law is an ass and in this particular matter that I am involved in I am sorry to say they are right.

I have no bias against the KC in either direction, but I do think we should realise that like any large organisation they are constrained by various laws in the things that they wish to do.

RodRussell
3rd December 2009, 02:08 PM
... Bet, they do say the law is an ass and in this particular matter that I am involved in I am sorry to say they are right...

Over here (at least since Mark Twain's days), we say that "The Congressman is an ass, but I repeat myself."
--
Rod Russell

EddyAnne
3rd December 2009, 05:58 PM
I read this article on DogWorld.
Overnight solutions not likely.
http://www.dogworld.co.uk/News/49-apgaw

For some time it was appearing inevitable that the Government was going to step in with some form of Regulation be it Legislation or Codes of Practice. Hearing the KC mentioning Government Regulation or Legislation and where the KC is actually asking for it well I think that they too feel that it is inevitable. Besides government regulation for compulsory health testing could be of help in addressing hereditary health problems at puppy farms and where the puppy farmers may have to increase the cost of their puppies to recover the money they paid for the health testings.
Whilst the KC was helping DEFRA to draft Codes of Practice for Dogs in generally looking after them I think that DEFRA might be including at least a mention about health testing before breeding, but then there might be another Codes of Practice on the cards for later say in a year specifically on health testing before breeding this as such Codes might in time be quite large to include all the hereditary health issues concerning dogs. Yes the KC is one of several Consultants that advise and assist DEFRA where DEFRA has been drafting Codes of Practice and where I think the KC might have some "insider information" for what might be down the track, see via this link address.
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200809/cmhansrd/cm090209/corrtext/90209c0001.htm

In Australia when the Government drafted Codes of Practice for Hereditary Diseases the Government used a number of Consultants which included Veterinary Specialists and Geneticists. When the draft was nearly finished it was then sent to the Clubs for their comments and suggestions on the draft.
As to the UK well we will just have to wait to see what might develop, but I keep thinking about what Bateson mentioned in the interview and which may be in his Report due in January.
"I think a lot could be done by good Codes of Practice which then could be used, and if an Animal Charity wants to bring a case against a dog breeder and the dog breeder has not followed the Codes of Practice then they could be successfully Prosecuted."
.

Margaret C
3rd December 2009, 06:06 PM
After being transferred to several departments I was finally put through to a lady who seemed to know what she was talking about. She explained to me that the KC as a registered charity would be in trouble with the Charity Commissioners if they went against their terms of incorporation as a charity by refusing to register puppies.


How very strange! This is the first time I have heard it said that the KC is a registered charity, and it certainly is not a reason they have used publicly to explain why they continue to register puppies from all comers.

I have checked their own website and they describe themselves as a "voluntary register for all dogs"
I cannot find any mention of a registered charity except for the KC Arts Foundation.

Can you remember what department this lady worked in?

EddyAnne
3rd December 2009, 06:48 PM
On a quick search I found the following where the KC donates money to the following "registered charities" but so far I have found nothing mentioning that the KC is a "registered charity".

The Kennel Club Charitable Trust (registered charity number 327802).

The Kennel Club Arts Foundation registered Charity number is 1114823.

The Kennel Club Educational Trust (Registered Charity No. 1121454).
.

Bet
3rd December 2009, 07:23 PM
Margaret, I see EddyAnne has answered about not finding that the KC is a Registered Charity as well.

The only thing I know is that the Kennel Club keeps mentioning this Hoary Old Chesnut ,that they have to be Mindful how they can best Influence and Gain co-operation from Breeders through a Unified approach ,rather than use the Ability to influence how their Dogs' Health and Welfare is Properly Guarded ,this has happened in America ,to the Risk of Detriment to the Health and Welfare of Many Pedigree Dogs.

This is the also the answer the KC gave to APGAW ,when the APGAW Report said that the Kennel Club should refuse to Register those Dogs that are not Bred to a High Standard.

I have been checking up on some of the Replies that the KC gave to the APGAW Report.

This is a Cracker!!!!

The APGAW Report said that ,NO DOG TO GAIN the TITLE OF CHAMPION/BE REWARDED IN THE SHOW RING ,unless Health Screened and Shown to be Clear.

The KC's Response to this, that the Kennel Club have made it plain to Judges that only obviously Healthy Dogs should win Prizes.

How would a Judge know if a Cavalier was suffering from MVD or not, unless shown a Health Certificate, or a MRI Scanned Certificate.

The KC insists that that it is through the Education of Breeders and Buyers of Dogs who will ultimately changes through demand.

I have another suggestion ,I can't speak for other Breeds ,but have Mandatory Health Testing for the 3 Main Health Problems as mentioned by the UK CKCS CLUB in their recent Leaflet.

MVD
SM
Eye Conditions.

Bet
3rd December 2009, 07:37 PM
Should have mentioned that the Pedigree Dogs Exposed TV Film is to be Broadcast in America 10-12- 09.

Maybe if it was Broadcast again here in Britain, more heed might be being taken by Prospective Buyers of Cavaliers, and the Message might be brought home to them ,about how important it is to see a Health Certifcate form the Cavalier Breeder , that Health Checks have been carried out on their Cavalier Breeding Stock.

EddyAnne
3rd December 2009, 09:16 PM
Should have mentioned that the Pedigree Dogs Exposed TV Film is to be Broadcast in America 10-12- 09.
Yes Bet it is on BBC America December 10, 8:00pm. ET/PT. A good while back I read on DogWorld about a Sequel to the documentary, but then everything went quiet due to complaints sent to OFCOM and there was also the start of APGAW and Bateson looking into the scene. I haven't heard anything lately from OFCOM about them publishing their Report. Maybe after ALL the reports have been published then we might hear again about the Sequel.

By the way, here is something interesting that I found out about BBC America.

PARENT COMPANY:
BBC AMERICA is a product of BBC Television, creator of BBC ONE and BBC TWO in the UK , and BBC Worldwide, the commercial arm of the BBC. BBC Worldwide is Europe’s largest exporter of television programs and a major international broadcaster, publisher and co-producer.

OWNERSHIP:
BBC AMERICA is wholly owned and editorially controlled by the BBC.
.

ByFloSin
3rd December 2009, 11:02 PM
How very strange! This is the first time I have heard it said that the KC is a registered charity, and it certainly is not a reason they have used publicly to explain why they continue to register puppies from all comers.

I have checked their own website and they describe themselves as a "voluntary register for all dogs"
I cannot find any mention of a registered charity except for the KC Arts Foundation.

Can you remember what department this lady worked in?

I have just looked at old notebooks to see if I have a date, a name of a department or a name for the lady I spoke to who told me what has turned out to be absolute nonsense.

All I can remember is that I was moved to tears when I saw the evidence in the Breed Supplement that this lady had bred my Holly's mother the very next season after she had produced 2 pups in the previous litter with serious autoimmune diseases - my poor Holly additionally having a deformed front paw. Rumour has it that the stud was a puppy from an earlier litter which had been returned to her as he was blind.

I had been told a couple of months before the Supplement came out that the litter had been bred despite the guidelines of the Cavalier clubs and possibly the Kennel Club too. I had also sent the breeder copies of Holly's x-rays and diagnostic reports from the specialists at The Willows and additionally a letter passing on the advice that any future breeding should be undertaken with caution.

After I told people about Holly's problems and those of the other pup in the litter several people said I should make a formal complaint to the KC about this lady's activities, one telling me in no uncertain terms that she thought I would be letting everyone else down if I did not take the action that only I would be equipped to take.

It was with all this in mind that I rang the KC to ask what I should do to stop this lady's activities - I imagined someone would send me a form to be submitted to the Disciplinary Committee or the ABS if she was a member of that scheme, as I knew she had been in the recent past. Instead I was passed from extension to extension and fobbed of with what I am now told is absolute nonsense.

The first person I spoke with checked out the details, but told me the lady was no longer an ABS breeder. I asked how to make a more general complaint then and was passed to and fro between several other departments. Eventually, still on the verge of tears, I was put through to the lady who told me there was nothing the KC could do to stop her registering any further litters as they would loose their charitable status if they did so. i had no reason to doubt what was said and asked what else I could do about this lady. It was then suggested that I get in touch with her local Council, as she was probably licensed with them as a breeder.

I then rang the Council but was told she had withdrawn her registration as a breeder and there was nothing they could do either. I tried the RSPCA too, but they referred me back to the local council.

I talked to someone on another list about my anger and frustration. She looked in her West of England Club Yearbook to see whether the breeder was a member and had breached their code of ethics, but she was not.

So there you have almost the whole story. There is nothing else relevant that I can remember. My writing desk is a mass of paper piled on paper, piled on yet more paper, so maybe in time I will find a piece of paper with either a date or a relevant name scrawled across it which will make sense, but please don't hold your breath.

Margaret C
4th December 2009, 12:37 AM
How absolutely frustrating this must have been for you, especially when you were trying so hard to do what was right for the dogs she may breed in the future.

Your desk sounds like mine. One of these days I will get organised.

Bet
4th December 2009, 10:19 AM
Flo,

I for sure know how you are feeling.

When our Becky, a B/T was diagnosed with Epilepsy ,I got in touch with Dr M Willis ,Geneticist, he told me to contact her Breeder ,No Joy there, that was when I decided to go it alone about the Health Problems in our Cavalier Breed,this was around 20 years ago.

This is why I am so grateful to Jemima Harrison and her Pedigree Dogs Exposed TV Program, at long last we Cavalier Owners are getting listened to, and Prospective Cavalier Buyers are now aware of the Health Problems in our Breed and know what questions to ask Cavalier Breeders.

You must be feeling like Banging your Head !!

I don't know what you can do now ,is the Breeder a Member of the CKCS CLUB ,you might get help from them.

EddyAnne
6th December 2009, 04:26 AM
Whilst the KC was helping DEFRA to draft Codes of Practice for Dogs in generally looking after them I think that DEFRA might be including at least a mention about health testing before breeding, but then there might be another Codes of Practice on the cards for later say in a year specifically on health testing before breeding this as such Codes might in time be quite large to include all the hereditary health issues concerning dogs. Yes the KC is one of several Consultants that advise and assist DEFRA where DEFRA has been drafting Codes of Practice

An update on what I previously mentioned.

Interesting article including the following from this link address.
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/172962.php

x. For pedigree puppies, ensure that any recognised registration papers and the parents' hereditary disease screening certificates, where appropriate, are in order and available at the time you buy the puppy.

3. Defra is soon to publish the Code of Practice for the Welfare of Dogs under the Animal Welfare Act 2006. The Code will provide further advice and guidance to dog owners on their duty of care to their animals. More information is available from Defra.
http://www.defra.gov.uk/
.

Bet
6th December 2009, 02:09 PM
Thanks EddyAnne for the information about the The Dog Breeding Stakeholder Group where it can be read about their 10 practical Guidelines to help Prospective Owners before buying their Puppy.

What is so interesting is the Groups mention that Every Dog should be Born with the Best Possible Chance of Living a Healthy ,Happy Life /

That all who who Breed Dogs should Prioritise Health ,Welfare and Temperament over Appearance when choosing which Animals to Breed.

All the Organisations brought to-gether in this Group, was a result of Jemima Harrison's Pedigree Dogs Exposed TV Program

One of the Guidelines given by this Group ,which includes, British Veterinary Association,the Blue Cross , CAWC, DEFRA, Dogs Trust the Kennel Club ,PDSA RSPCA and the Universities Federation for Animal Welfare .

Also for Pedigree Puppies ,ensure that the Parent's Hereditary Screening Certificates , where appropriate ,are in order AND Available at the Time when you buy The Puppy.

Who ever would have thought that because of Jemima Harrison in her PDE TV FILM ,making the Strong and Dramatic Approach about the Two Serious Diseases Afflicting Cavaliers ,SM and MVD ,many Cavaliers could still be Languishing in the Pain of SM and suffering from the Early Deaths due to MVD.

I know that a good number still are ,but at Least Prospective Cavalier Owners are now aware of those Health Problems in our Breed and the Secret about them not being with-held as has been the case for many years. ....and now know what questions to be asking Cavalier Breeders.





DEFRA is soon to Publish the Code Of Practice for the Welfare of Dogs, under the Animal Welfare ACt 2006.

WoodHaven
6th December 2009, 04:57 PM
BBC America is a channel that I don't get. That didn't stop me from watching it on You tube.

Karlin
6th December 2009, 05:36 PM
Just moving this as the thread is about broader health issues, not SM/MVD. :thmbsup:

EddyAnne
6th December 2009, 11:12 PM
Just moving this as the thread is about broader health issues, not SM/MVD. :thmbsup:
Karlin are you saying that this if in the soon to be published Codes of Practice would NOT apply to MVD and CM/SM with Cavaliers?

"For pedigree puppies, ensure that any recognised registration papers and the parents' hereditary disease screening certificates, where appropriate, are in order and available at the time you buy the puppy."
.