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Nicki
25th December 2009, 05:07 PM
There have been discussions previously on here about Cesar Milan and his methods - please take time to read the following article, especially those of you in favour of his methods :(

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/174193.php

The British Veterinary Association (BVA) and British Small Animal Veterinary Association (BSAVA) have joined forces with several UK animal welfare, behaviour, and training organisations (full list below) to warn of the possible dangers of using techniques for training dogs that can cause pain and fear, such as some of those seen used by Cesar Millan 'The Dog Whisperer', who has announced a UK tour next year.


A gentleman not too far from where I live was hospitalised after he tried an alpha roll on his dog, which bit him very badly on the face :( The dog - a Cocker Spaniel - can you imagine the damage a large breed could do?

barneysmum
25th December 2009, 06:09 PM
I've rarely watched his programme because the few times I've seen a bit of it I've not really liked what I saw.
I like Victoria Stilwell and Dog Borstal though.
Type 'SIOUX GETS AN ALPHA ROLL' into youtube and see how it should be done!!!!!!!!!!

mckcomplex
26th December 2009, 01:18 AM
barneysmum,

You are so right! I laughed so hard when I watched the video and showed my roommate, too.

sarahso
28th December 2009, 02:07 AM
I used to love watching Ceasar milan, until my dog trainer brought in the spike collars he uses and offered to put it around my neck! i was horrified and havnt watched it since!

Nicki
28th December 2009, 10:34 AM
Type 'SIOUX GETS AN ALPHA ROLL' into youtube and see how it should be done!!!!!!!!!!


:D:D That's why Tommy is called Tommy Tum Tums :jmp2:

arasara
28th December 2009, 10:18 PM
Cesar Milan makes me cringe. First, I think it's ridiculous how some of the dogs act that even appear on his show!! :yikes And why is it always the same story? Cant they address other issues sometimes - such as my dogs - how I can't make them stop barking at animals on the TV? icon_blshing

Secondly, with my dogs, a simple change in my facial expression (such as one that lets them know I don't approve) or an AHH AHH in their direction does the trick and makes them stop. I think in general, using methods such as his are overkill :roll:

Marjorie
29th December 2009, 04:48 PM
Most trainers I know are not to keen on Cesar and his methods. His books are better than his programs (have you ever noticed most dogs have prong and shock collars on?). I think there are much kinder and more respectful ways of working with dogs. I like the "Mindful Leadership" approach, especially, with Cavaliers as they are so emotionally sensitive and alot of damage can be done by using the macho alpha approach...they are not wolves, but dogs and there really is a difference.

Karlin
31st December 2009, 02:18 AM
Steve, please don't use his methods on a cavalier, much less any other breed.

Plus I thought you no longer have a dog? Please don't tell me you have taken another dog in given all the terrible issues you have in your current living situation and all the problems you went through. :confused:

I know you participate on some of the general Irish dog forums so I'll conclude your membership here, as you no longer have a cavalier, and let you speak freely about your training methods elsewhere, as that seems to be important to you and also make me feel this is no longer the right forum for you. It makes me really sad though that you would feel you need to show 'dominance' over a dog, much less puppies. :(

Yorkysue
31st December 2009, 07:48 PM
No-one has the right to treat any dog with anything other than kindness and respect! Shock collars, prong collars or any other brutal way of dominating or controlling a dog are abhorrent! As humans we have (or should have) intelligence and reasoning to help us show our pets how to behave and this can only be done with kindness, patience, and consistency!!!!

What is particularly horrifying about Ceser and any other 'Celebrity' trainer who expounds these methods is that millions of people watch him; he can do no end of harm.

I'll get off my soap-box now and anyway I know for the most part I'm preaching to the converted.:D

Happy New Year to you all and to all our wonderful sweet natured and loving cavaliers.

Jay
2nd January 2010, 05:43 PM
Anyone who advocates the use of a shock collar or a prong collar should try it on themselves first. I personally tried the shock collar on myself. It was a horrible experience. I was able to immediately remove it from my neck. Poor dogs cannot. It frustrates me to no end when I hear (and read) how "if used properly", these are are "tools" for training. They are not "tools". They are a form of torture. I wish they would be banned. If someone routinely shocked their dog with anything else but these collars, the dogs could probably be removed by the authorities. I personally can't see any difference. There are many effective, positive ways that can be used to train dogs. Shock and prong collars are NEVER necessary.

I personally don't understand the need to "dominate" anybody or any animal. It's a bully mentality that gets no one anywhere.

I'll take my soap box now.....I need to do the laundry.

J.

Marjorie
6th January 2010, 05:51 PM
This is an excellent articl and site on this topic.

http://www.voice4dogs.com/whisperer.html

sarahso
8th January 2010, 02:18 AM
just reading the article posted. makes very interesting reading!

i dont agree with Ceaser milans way of teaching at all, or any other teachings that are born out of fear and not kindness.

reading both the above article & other training methods has over time made me aware of the many methods that are around, i personally have always used reward based training and never understood many of the harsher training methods, one thing i have noticed, is the amount of times I myself have used the words dominance & to be alpha in the pack, when that is not what i am really actually meaning at all! i think i better start broadening my vocabulary!

thanks for posting that, it has again made me realise where some of my own fault lies and why i am sometimes misunderstood! i have added it to my favourites for a thorough read!:)

i think my new mantra is going to be...


Forget about dominance (http://www.voice4dogs.com/dominance.html) and aim to be a superior, mindful leader. (http://www.voice4dogs.com/gentling.html)

Marjorie
9th January 2010, 05:04 PM
I'm glad you enjoyed the article. Silvia Jay is an amazing dog behaviourist that we have worked with and I love her kind, compassionate, wise and effective approach.

Rosewoodsteel
10th January 2010, 05:14 PM
Could someone please post a picture of a "prong collar".
Thanks in advance!

*Pauline*
10th January 2010, 05:53 PM
Could someone please post a picture of a "prong collar".
Thanks in advance!

These pictures will make you sick but I feel very strongly about this. Even if you didn't pull or yank the lead, I just can't imagine how a dog walks without this being incredibly uncomfortable. You'd only have to knock it slightly for a nasty poke in the neck. The addition of the martingale chain means the collar gets tighter when the dog pulls.
http://www.downtownpet.com/blog/uploaded_images/dog.prong.collar-730053.jpg
http://www.ipdta.org/images/index.2.jpg

Rj Mac
10th January 2010, 07:08 PM
These pictures will make you sick but I feel very strongly about this. Even if you didn't pull or yank the lead, I just can't imagine how a dog walks without this being incredibly uncomfortable. You'd only have to knock it slightly for a nasty poke in the neck. The addition of the martingale chain means the collar gets tighter when the dog pulls.
http://www.downtownpet.com/blog/uploaded_images/dog.prong.collar-730053.jpg
http://www.ipdta.org/images/index.2.jpg

Good God, that's more a torture device than training, i've never seen 1 of those before, and i can't understand how anyone would want to use it on their pet:sl*p:, it's disgusting!!!!

Yorkysue
10th January 2010, 08:20 PM
One word only to descibe the above!


EVIL .....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

barneysmum
11th January 2010, 11:32 AM
Good grief! I've never seen one of those before:mad: Surely that cant be legal in the UK, I thought we were a 'nation of animal lovers':(

Teresa
11th January 2010, 11:36 AM
A friend of mine was advised by the RSPCA of all people to use a shock collar to stop her dog from barking when they were out!!! I couldn't believe it...thankfully she decided it was too cruel to use.

Claire L
11th January 2010, 01:56 PM
Someone should ask Caesar Milan to wear one of those and demonstrate how they work :mad:

Shelli
11th January 2010, 02:09 PM
Someone should ask Caesar Milan to wear one of those and demonstrate how they work :mad:

:xctly: :mad:

MadPip
11th January 2010, 06:22 PM
I've just been in my local bookshop, where the girl behind the till is going to hopefully get a rescue dog, she's going to the rescue centre tomorrow. She has "stocked up" on Cesar's books for inspiration, and when I said that a good trainer would be Gwen Bailey (there were some of her books on the shelves in the shop) as Cesar can be a bit harsh in his approach, she dismissed that as him just being firm! :sl*p::mad: I'm so hoping that the rescue centre she's going to will advise her differently before allowing her to adopt a dog.

Marjorie
11th January 2010, 06:49 PM
There is a pet store here who brought in prong collars and they lost most of their clients. Once people saw that they had them in the shop they refused to go in. They had to remove them...thank God!

amanda L
11th January 2010, 07:55 PM
Absolutely barbaric:mad:, I really hope that man does not come over here, I dread to think of the cruelty and amount of damage (both physical and psychological) he causes dogs, and that he will cause, by demonstrating his techniques during his "shows" :(:mad: and if any of his audience will begin using his methods.