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Tania
11th January 2010, 05:41 PM
I am not thinking about getting one. I came accross these and they are also spelt Cavadoodle. In view of the problems. I wondered what people thought about a Cavalier being crossed with a Small Poodle ?

jasperpaw
11th January 2010, 07:44 PM
I have seen Cavadoodles advertised, they look very sweet, I was brought up with Poodles, but not sure I would want one, but they don`t moult. On our last visit to the vet my husband mentioned to her that I would like another Cavalier, she said they are the most affectionate dogs she knows but maybe I should consider a cross breed with all the health issues going on with them.

Kate H
11th January 2010, 07:48 PM
The result is probably quite pretty, but considering the orthopaedic problems a friend of mine has with her (well-bred) Toy Poodles, the poor puppies could end up with bad hearts, a syrinx, slipping patellas, hip dysplasia and spinal problems - and the owners pay a fortune for the privilege of a 'designer' dog! In spite of the mantra that crossbreeds are healthier than pedigrees, crossbreeding doesn't diminish health problems, it just adds to them - they are, after all, two pedigree breeds, both with their own health problems, mated together.

Kate, Oliver and Aled

Daisy's Mom
11th January 2010, 07:50 PM
I've seen lots of them listed on Petfinder. Some are cute, some are not. My parents' neighbor has a Cavachon (Cavalier/Bichon Frise). He isn't very cute, to be honest. He has some light lemon markings over a mostly white coat. They bought him from a "designer dog" breeder in Iowa. His face is just kind of generic. As a puppy, he used to be really friendly like you would expect a Cavalier to be, but as he matured, he is now more skittish and barky.

Sabby
11th January 2010, 10:04 PM
There is one in the Feb issue of Your Dog. They call it Cavapoo. This one is very cute. The story is actually about introducing a puppy to your existing dog.

Bec
12th January 2010, 11:58 AM
http://www.freewebs.com/leescavoodles/b&t%20cavoodle.JPG

They r verrry cute. It always worrys me cross-breeding any dog though

Marjorie
12th January 2010, 05:18 PM
There is one on the street behind me and he is very small and timid. Personally, I prefer a Cavalier as I'm not a poodle fan at all. Also, it is a BIG MYTH that you will get a non-shedding dog by crossing with a poodle or other non-shedding breed. You MAY get a non-shedding dog, but your chances of getting one that does shed is just as great. There is no guarantee as many people who have gotten Doodles have found out, by getting a large dog that has the disposition of a poodle and sheds like a Lab.

Tania
12th January 2010, 05:39 PM
I was wondering about the sm problem. Breeding a Cavalier with a smaller
dog surely can't be a good thing, or am I looking at this simplistically ?

Marjorie
12th January 2010, 06:00 PM
You are probably right Tania. I don't think breeding smaller would be wise. I have seen some nice dogs that have been Cavalier/Cocker crosses and I think the Cocker would be a more reasonable choice for a cross. I have to say I have seen some really bad Cavalier crosses. However ,I did see one going the other day that was extreamly handsome and I wish could have asked about it. It looked like it might have come from a ruby Cavalier, about 18-20 lbs silky red coat with black snout and balck on the ends of the hair. The tail was a bit more curled than a Cavaliers. It was a really smart well balanced attractive dog.

Daisy's Mom
12th January 2010, 06:06 PM
I always wondered about that, too, Marjorie. Unless the non-shedding wool-type coat is completely dominant over a hair-type coat that sheds, then why do people expect that absolutely anything mixed with a poodle or bichon won't shed?

BTW, I have to stand up for poodles here. They get a lot of bashing by the public, most of whom have not had much personal experience with the breed. Poodles are very cool dogs, personality-wise. And they are widely known to be one of the smartest breed of dogs out there, if not the smartest. Standard (big) poodles are just as rough and ready as labs. I think toy poodles have gotten a bad rap in the personality department because lots of older people tended to own them and they often were never socialized around lots of strangers and kids, so, like any dog would, those dogs grew up being one-person or one-family dogs. So they were often kind of snappy and nervous around strangers and kids. Plus the ridiculous show trim most people are familiar with from seeing them in dog shows doesn't really do them many favors in terms of public perception, either.

I grew up with toy poodles (4 over the years) and you could not ask for smarter, nicer dogs than they were. I'd match our little FeFe's (no, I did not name her, my mother did and it was about 1968, so that explains a lot :rolleyes:) sweet personality against any Cavalier I have ever met. FeFe was an angel dog and she loved everyone, even kids that didn't treat her with the respect that she deserved. In fact, although I love Daisy to a crazy degree, I would have to say that I still consider FeFe to be my "forever" dog. She seriously did not have an uptight or aggressive bone in her entire little body. Plus she was absolutely gorgeous and had a coat that would have been the envy of any poodle show dog out there. Only one of our 4 poodles was remotely snappy, and that was our fault. My parents got him when I (the youngest of 5 kids) was away at college and he just did not get socialized properly as a pup. He was a complete love with me and my parents, but he had very little use for anyone else.

BTW, speaking of temperament, we were at the CKCS Club show in Nashville in December and there was a gorgeous Cavalier sitting unattended on top of a grooming table in the hallway and when we walked by, he (she?) growled at my daughter (she's 9 years old)! She was just walking by minding her own business. I was shocked. So much for the "gay temperament" part of the standard! I felt like going in and telling on him to the judges (just kidding.) He looked good, undeniably, but he was not very nice.

Sorry, got a little off track there!

Marjorie
12th January 2010, 06:17 PM
I agree that poodles are very smart and I have met many that I do like and that have nice personalities. There is nothing more graceful than a standard poodle strolling through the park. My issue with poodles is that I have yet to meet one that is not extremely yappy. You are right however, I should be judging the dog and not the breed, thanks for the reminder.

Tania
12th January 2010, 11:53 PM
I agree with all the comments about poodles, they are super little dogs.
My only concern is if the Cavalier has over the years been bred smaller which has partly caused the sm problem. In my book It doesn't make sense to breed a Cavalier with yet an even smaller dog whatever the breed.

Oreo
13th January 2010, 06:07 AM
I always wondered about that, too, Marjorie. Unless the non-shedding wool-type coat is completely dominant over a hair-type coat that sheds, then why do people expect that absolutely anything mixed with a poodle or bichon won't shed?


Actually, this is somewhat known - enough to be discussed on genetics lists.

Undercoat is dominant to non-undercoat. As Poodles nor Cavaliers have an undercoat, then the mix (if purebred dogs are used) will not have one either.

The bearded gene (I think the symbol is "Wh") IS predictable, and dominant, when it is interacting with a breed that is set at long coat (fluffy) - "l/l" on the locus that determines coat length.

Cavaliers and Poodles are both breeds set at "l/l" on that locus.

If a breeder is using a pure Poodle, and a pure Cavalier, then the first generation pups will all be l/l and Wh/wh on the two loci that determine whether a dog has a bearded face and continuously growing fur/hair.

It would make sense that the l/l,WH/wh dogs (Cavalier x Poodle mixes) would lose fur/hair more easily than dogs that are l/l,Wh/Wh (which Poodles are), but they will all have bearded faces, continuously growing coats, and need clipping. There is an allele for curly coat as well, and a mix, would only get one of curly allele at that locus, making the coat wavy, but not curly. (Every dog has two alleles at each gene locus. It inherits a single allele from each parent).

Now, when Poodles are mixed with smooth-coated dogs (L/l) and undercoated dogs, the interaction between the alleles at the four gene loci (undercoat, coat length, curly/straight, bearded) becomes unpredictable - which is why those that mix labs and poodles, or chihuahuas and poodles, etc. etc. end up inconsistent coats on their pups; some with tufts of fur in places and not in others, and some with more "fluffy" or long fur than others.

Just had to share, cuz I LOVE this type of genetics stuff.

What else I'd like to mention is that I share Tania's concern. The small Poodle breeds deal with SM and MVD, patella and eye problems as well.

Oreo

For others interested, this is a good read on the topic:

Coat Variation in the Domestic Dog Is Governed by Variants in Three Genes

http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/326/5949/150

Oreo
13th January 2010, 06:42 AM
I just googled and found a more reader friendly explanation about the three genes that govern coat types in dogs. (They don't include a discussion on how undercoat is inherited.)

It is here, and this is a tiny bit of it: http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/162238.php

Mutant Genes and the Well-Dressed Dog



All purebred dogs have the three genes, but the presence or absence of mutant, variant forms of those genes - rather than the ancestral forms inherited from wolves - determines coat types:

Short-haired dogs like basset hounds have none of the variant genes, just the ancestral form of each gene.


Wire-haired dogs such as Australian terriers have the variant form of only the RSPO2 gene.


Dogs with wiry and curly hair - airedale terriers, for example - have variants of both RSPO2 and KRT71 genes.


Long-haired dogs like golden retrievers have a variant form of the FGF5 gene.


Long-haired dogs with furnishings, such as the bearded collie, have variant forms of FGF5 and RSPO2.


Curly haired dogs such as Irish water spaniels have the variant forms of the FGF5 and KRT71 genes.


Curly haired dogs with furnishings - such as the bichon frise breed and some Portuguese water dogs, including President Obama's dog Bo - have the variant form of all three genes.
. . . and this one has a diagram, which might help for those of us that like visual clues.

http://www.patentdocs.org/2009/08/the-genetic-basis-of-coat-variation-in-dogs.html

Oreo

Marjorie
13th January 2010, 01:18 PM
Amazing isn't it? Breeding is so involved and that is why I wish people would leave it to those who do kow what they are doing.