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Bet
13th February 2010, 10:33 AM
Am I the only Person who is wondering whether some Cavalier Breeders will grasp at any Straw to try and cover up the Health Problems in our Cavalier Breed?

It is really getting so noticeable!

Bet

Karlin
13th February 2010, 01:45 PM
As always, I think the operative word is 'some'. :) Let's focus more on what is being done and what could be done. I am pleased to see the BVA scheme will be announced which brings us a step closer to EBVs. However given the recent talk by Tom Lewis who stated it could be years before an EBV scheme is available due to the lack of scan information and heart information on cavaliers -- this must be alarming for the clubs and breeders hoping and waiting for this scheme and surely the clubs can take a leadership role now in raising awareness with all members about the importance of scanning results -- all results, good or bad --to research, and the need for older dogs to be scanned.

It has been odd to see some breeders complaining about scanning still as an 'invasive' procedure where they won;t risk sedation yet the same people do annual dentals under anaesthesia... so that excuse, if low cost scans are available, rings a bit hollow. Where scans are costly, a reluctance is more understandable, but it is still sad to see some breeders twisting around what are merely recommendations to try and gain information that will benefit the survival of the breed, as something they are being 'told' to do.

I agree with some of the breeders who posted a while back that perhaps mandatory MRIs are needed to level the playing field for all breeders and improve the research situation and ultimately, benefit all breeders (and of course, the dogs).

If there is still money in that PR fund in the UK Club, why not put it towards a drive to get breeders who have scanned to make sure their scans are in the possession of Sarah Blott and Tom Lewis, and encourage others to scan and submit? Maybe organise a fundraiser to get 10 or 20 age 5+ dogs scanned for research (that would be a great use of the Humberside Club's upcoming health fundraiser).

Or maybe we too can organise a fundraiser here to gets scans done on 5 or 10 or 20 pet owner, pedigreed cavaliers in the UK done age 5 or 6 on up? That would be a great pet owner initiative that would greatly benefit research. 2000 pounds as the goal -- I'd kick that off with a 100 pound donation if someone might organise the actual scanning day and if we can find the dogs to scan on this board or beyond.

Margaret C
13th February 2010, 03:17 PM
If there is still money in that PR fund in the UK Club, why not put it towards a drive to get breeders who have scanned to make sure their scans are in the possession of Sarah Blott and Tom Lewis, and encourage others to scan and submit?.

There was an appeal to raise 8,000, I think, to pay a Public Relations firm to organise a campaign to deny there were any health problems in Cavaliers.

This was a private initiative by some of the die-hard breeders, but certainly the Canadian Cavalier Club was led to believe it was the UK Cavalier Club that was begging for funds.

I think it was that money that was used to set up the lamentable Cavalierhealth site. ( Readers of this post really need to go and look if they have not already seen it............. Denial or what? )



Or maybe we too can organise a fundraiser here to gets scans done on 5 or 10 or 20 pet owner, pedigreed cavaliers in the UK done age 5 or 6 on up? That would be a great pet owner initiative that would greatly benefit research. 2000 pounds as the goal -- I'd kick that off with a 100 pound donation if someone might organise the actual scanning day and if we can find the dogs to scan on this board or beyond.

I'll match that 100 and arrange the scanning day(s), if we can get enough cavaliers volunteered.

Two of my dogs are scanned & William is too old at thirteen and with a grade 4 heart murmur, but I will think about who I know with middle age cavaliers and have a word with them.

sins
13th February 2010, 04:11 PM
I'll pledge 100.
Sins

Bet
13th February 2010, 05:33 PM
OH ,Dear ,

Here we go again.

There was a PR Fund Orginized by some I think on the CC List.

I know that on the some of the Cavalier Lists I was on ,there were request even for the Money for it from Cavalier Owners who lived abroad.

Where did that money go?

What was the idea behind it?

Was it just another way of trying to Con the Cavalier Buying Public that the Cavalier Breed has no Health Problems?

Surely not ,when 1n 1983 ,....YES 27 YEARS AGO,the Cavalier Breeders were told that the Cavalier Breed had a Serious MVD Heart Problem!!

If there is any of PR Fund Money left ,there just can't be any objections in giving it to Karlin's Suggestion.

This is the only way forward now to try and Save the Cavalier Breed form Extinction.

As Dr T. Lewis said last Week at the SM Seminar ,and has been Reported ,that because there are not enough Cavalier MRI Scans for the EBV Scheme, Precedence has now been given to the Labrador Breed's Problem.

Even the ,I think she is the Chair woman of the S& W .Wales CKCS CLUB,was quoted as saying,that she was quite shocked at Dr Lewis' reply ,that they only had 500 MRI Scans.




She went onto say , that at this rate ,wiil the Cavalier EBV Scheme ever get off the Ground.

Just wonder if the Many Visitors ,as has been Claimed who visit the CC List ,will be being told if any of the of the Surplus PR Fund Money ,will be going to help Dr S..Blott and Dr T Lewis, get the Cavalier MRI Scans that they are so desperately needing.

I am sure we Lovers of our Cavalier Breed would love to hear the Answer to this Question.

Bet.

sins
13th February 2010, 05:51 PM
Just thinking Margaret,
If you're planning Chestergates as the venue,there's the cost of the scan plus vat and for an extra 10 you could add in the cardiologist check as well and have info on both MVD and SM to send to the AHT.
So for 125 you could get a lot of valuable information to the AHT.
I sent Daisy's info on Friday.I'm sorry now I didn't get the MVD check but will know better next time.
I think this is an excellent iniative to allow pet owners to do something constructive toward combatting the health problems.(That and buying from breeders who do all the tests)
Sins

Margaret C
13th February 2010, 06:50 PM
Just thinking Margaret,
If you're planning Chestergates as the venue,there's the cost of the scan plus vat and for an extra 10 you could add in the cardiologist check as well and have info on both MVD and SM to send to the AHT.
So for 125 you could get a lot of valuable information to the AHT.
I sent Daisy's info on Friday.I'm sorry now I didn't get the MVD check but will know better next time.
I think this is an excellent iniative to allow pet owners to do something constructive toward combatting the health problems.(That and buying from breeders who do all the tests)
Sins

I suppose that as the information ( and DNA ) from any clear old dogs would be so important to the Gene research I would possibly be looking to go to StoneLion at Wimbledon and perhaps other associated veterinary practices who send their scans for Clare to assess. Possibly Cambridge too?
I really will need to see where volunteered dogs come from and then see what could be arranged.

I take the point that it would be a really good idea to see if heart forms can be completed at the same time, and of course one of the aims will be to make sure the information goes into the EBV scheme.

This is not to say I do not value the extremely valuable help given by Chestergate to so many cavalier breeders. I most certainly do.

My reasoning would be that so much rides on finding the gene markers for CMSM, including the upgrading of the EBVs into the Genomic Breed Values and perhaps eventually being able to develop a gene test that can be used from birth.

I therefore think that we owe it to the breed to help the geneticists in Canada, and their collaborators here in the UK, to find the older SM clear dogs they so need to take their research forward.

Karlin
13th February 2010, 09:05 PM
Yes this would be an issue -- Chestergates is wonderful and very supportive but won't release actual scans.

I have a plan to raise some funds as well.

Are there members here with dogs age 6+ with KC registration, who would like to have them scanned? This is not something to fear -- if your dogs is symptomatic at 6, you are unlikely to have to worry about any serious onset of SM with symptoms in the dog's lifetime. Dogs with no symptoms would be especially desireable, in the attempt to find clears. Perhaps we could work through a coupe of supportive vets as well as they'd know clients who might be interested.

I would, if Nicki will give permission, like to call this Rupert's Fund in honour of a much loved and well-remembered senior cavalier. :)

Margaret C
14th February 2010, 12:18 AM
Rupert's Fund, what a wonderful idea

ByFloSin
14th February 2010, 10:13 AM
Yes this would be an issue -- Chestergates is wonderful and very supportive but won't release actual scans.

I have a plan to raise some funds as well.

Are there members here with dogs age 6+ with KC registration, who would like to have them scanned? This is not something to fear -- if your dogs is symptomatic at 6, you are unlikely to have to worry about any serious onset of SM with symptoms in the dog's lifetime. Dogs with no symptoms would be especially desireable, in the attempt to find clears. Perhaps we could work through a coupe of supportive vets as well as they'd know clients who might be interested.

I would, if Nicki will give permission, like to call this Rupert's Fund in honour of a much loved and well-remembered senior cavalier. :)

A small correction is needed I think Karlin. Did you not mean asymptomatic at age 6?

A good example of this is that I thought Rebel (age 7) might be developing symptoms when he started scratching recently, but it turned out that he has a spot of excema on the skin of one ear, which is treatable and is being relieved.

Bet
14th February 2010, 11:33 AM
What a great idea this is turning out to be, and with such a lovely name .

Rupert's Fund



I have a couple of Friends and we have what we call SUZY'S Box .and put our 5 P'S into it , and send the Money to the Scottish Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, that's where we got Suzy, now we will be sending it to Rupert's Fund.

Maybe if others had 5 Pences and collected them ,this might go a wee bit in helping this worth - while cause.

Bet

Nicki
14th February 2010, 11:39 AM
Oh what a lovely idea, we'd be thrilled. I'm sure Rupert would be honoured to be rememberd in that way.

2254


Ok will have a think about how we can raise some funds...

Nicki
14th February 2010, 12:22 PM
OK would people like a recipe book?

I have quite a few doggy recipes, and if people wanted to e-mail me their favourites, I could put something together, in a document which could be sold and e-mailed to people.


Maybe a way to raise some money?

A lovely way to remember Rupert, he was very keen on his food LOL

Rupert's 8th birthday party

http://www.cavaliertalk.com/forums/[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v510/RupertsMum/Rupert/Rupertbday.jpg



This was soon after Rupert's worst episode of Syringomyelia, a very difficult time and it took a while to get him mobile again.

Sabby
14th February 2010, 12:46 PM
I think a recipe book is a great idea, probably because I am forever baking doggie treats.
I have a whole book of recipes tried and tested of course. I could Email you as many as you like.

Bet
14th February 2010, 01:58 PM
Rupert's Fund is going From Strength to Strength now.

What I really do feel is that if the MRI Scans are not forth-coming,and the other information, we can say Cheerio to our Beloved Cavalier Breed.

As I Posted the other day, look what has happened to the Cavalier Breed's MVD Trouble being ignored for 27 years by some Cavalier Breeders when they were first warned about the Problem.

Let's all get to- gether and don't let it be being said ,if only we had done some-thing about the Cavaliers' SM Problem.

I know that many of us are not Cavalier Breeders , but we can all help with what is now to be known as Rupert's Fund.

Bet.

Karlin
14th February 2010, 03:18 PM
I am in discussion as to where we will do scans, as we need to have access to the actual digital images so the scan work can go to both the EBVs and the Canadian CKCS genome research, where scans on older dogs are a key need right now, especially on older dogs with no symptoms.

I love the idea of a doggie treat recipe book -- maybe we such a booklet!! It could be really nicely set up as a pdf for download. :)

I am proposing this be a permanent fund so that it can take in cavaliers on an ongoing basis, rather than a once-off fundraising effort? That way if people are doing a fundraiser walk or run for example, they might want to do it for the Rupert Fund. :) Thinking caps on for fundraisers! Also, the smallest donation is very very welcome -- a fiver added to a fiver from 20 or 30 individuals soon covers a scan... :)

Great idea to get the heart certs done at the time, too, Sins. I wish I'd known that at Chestergates as I'd have had all mine heart checked too!

Karlin
14th February 2010, 03:40 PM
I've created a subforum in the SM forum for people to ask questions, post ideas, highlight projects or ideas, and network generally for our new CavalierTalk community project, Rupert's Fund! :D

Margaret C
14th February 2010, 06:16 PM
There was an appeal to raise 8,000, I think, to pay a Public Relations firm to organise a campaign to deny there were any health problems in Cavaliers.

This was a private initiative by some of the die-hard breeders, but certainly the Canadian Cavalier Club was led to believe it was the UK Cavalier Club that was begging for funds.

I think it was that money that was used to set up the lamentable Cavalierhealth site. ( Readers of this post really need to go and look if they have not already seen it............. Denial or what? )




I just had a terrible thought................

I would not want cavalier owners reading that post to think that my 'lamentable cavalierhealth site' was referring to Rod Russell's excellent USA based cavalierhealth.org.
That is a real health site, and I think most responsible cavalier breeders and owners would agree that it is a wonderful source of information

No, it was the tired and out of date cavalierhealth.co.uk that I was alluding to.
The site that still has articles that downplay the incidence of SM in cavaliers and the importance of MRI scanning.

It is nominally owned by the Eastern regional club treasurer. Some of the articles are by KC Accredited Breeders.
It does raise the question of just how committed can they be to the ABS ethos of responsible breeding, when they allow those articles to remain on view?

Bet
14th February 2010, 07:18 PM
Nicki, I forgot to say what a Lovely Photo of Rupert at his Birth-Day Party.


The other thought I have had , is the Breed Notes on the Site mentioned by Margaret , being Subsidised by any chance from Funds from the PR Fund.

What was that money used for?

Where did it go?

Does any-body know?

Bet.