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View Full Version : Panting, can this be pain



gentess1
24th February 2010, 03:28 PM
Hello all, my little Todo had severe pain late last year which was operated on ( fenestration ). His improvement was very slow, and lately he has started to go back to the same problems. He can be withdrawn, unsettled, sits close to the radiator, then cools down, but he can sit there on the night panting, which I an taking as he is in discomfort. I have 3 other dogs and they do not suffer, so it can't be the heating, we bring him water, he doesn't want that.
The vet did discuss an ventral slot operation. I am not keen to put him through that, but my wife who is with him all day says he is definately going back over. She had been scared by reading and being told that dogs can tolerate pain / discomfort, then one day they just give up fighting. I wan to give him the best chance I can, he is such a special friend.

Karlin
24th February 2010, 03:46 PM
Hi again: so sorry to hear he is having problems again.

I think you need to get specialist support here -- he sounds in a lot of pain and that needs to be assessed so you can make some informed choices on care.

I do recall that there was a long discussion here on symptoms and his diagnosis before, and a few of us thought he really needed assessment by a neurologist familiar with syringomyelia. I can only say that I would once again stress this as an important option, and add that I think this is a a very urgent need, given that you have seen a return of the discomfort and problems. I would do this before even considering allowing further surgery of any sort by a vet. The surgeries may be causing the decline if he has SM, as they could cause additional pain and difficulty.

I just have a gut feeling the wrong condition was treated -- but either way he needs professional assessment and care especially painkillers most immediately. Let us know what you learn. :flwr:

*Pauline*
24th February 2010, 04:36 PM
I agree with Karlin. I think an urgent visit to the vet for pain killers would be the first thing I would do then ask to see a consultant.

I made a youtube of something I do for Dylan. I found this helped relax Dylan when he was distressed or uncomfortable. It usually made him so relaxed he'd be snoring within a minute. On this film however he was eager to go do something else. Anyway it might help a little, can't hurt trying.

CLICK HERE. (http://www.youtube.com/user/PaulineLovesDylan#p/u/6/S53oTnUSiXw)

Love my Cavaliers
24th February 2010, 04:48 PM
Oliver had ventral slot decompression for herniated cervical discs just this past December. He was in constant pain even with enforced rest, painkillers and steroids before the surgery (we thought it was his back) and is doing absolutely great right now - totally pain free. However, we went to a neurologist to evaluate his pain. The orthopedic specialist he was seeing for his back actually referred us to the neurologist. Oliver had an MRI to rule out syringomyelia as the cause of his pain. That is when they found that he has no syrinxes, so no SM, but he had herniated discs in his neck that were putting a lot of pressure on his spinal cord. His neurologist felt that he couldn't really give an accurate diagnosis or treatment plan without evaluating for SM first. Even though Oliver is almost 9 years old, he came through the MRI and his surgery with flying colors. The neurologist did the surgery.

Please take Karlin's advice and get Todo to a neurologist, soon. He doesn't have to be in so much pain. This way you can also be sure that the right condition is treated. If it is determined that Todo needs ventral slot decompression, you can PM me to talk about Oliver's surgery and recovery. Good luck.

gentess1
24th February 2010, 07:59 PM
Thanks for all the rapid replies. He isn't always in obvious discomfort, but would panting be a true indication of pain. When he is panting, he is not restless, it seems to be at the same time each night. The overall symtoms are just gradually becoming noticable. How would I find a local neurologist?, his surgeon was a soft tissue expert, not sure what the other vet specialised in. the MRI scan was clear, and about 2-3 weeks later he had a CT scan ( I think, it was last year )

Cathy Moon
25th February 2010, 01:25 AM
I'm sorry Todo is having difficulty.

Panting can also be a sign of heart disease. Has the vet listened to his heart for a murmur?

Charlifarley
25th February 2010, 12:04 PM
I agree with Karlin. I think an urgent visit to the vet for pain killers would be the first thing I would do then ask to see a consultant.

I made a youtube of something I do for Dylan. I found this helped relax Dylan when he was distressed or uncomfortable. It usually made him so relaxed he'd be snoring within a minute. On this film however he was eager to go do something else. Anyway it might help a little, can't hurt trying.

CLICK HERE. (http://www.youtube.com/user/PaulineLovesDylan#p/u/6/S53oTnUSiXw)
Thats really interesting Pauline. I'm guessing that you are rubbing a reflexology spot?
I met a man in the park the other day, whose CKCS also has SM, he told me that he rubs the dogs' ear to help calm him down when he is in pain. I will have to try it for Bosco.

*Pauline*
25th February 2010, 01:49 PM
Thats really interesting Pauline. I'm guessing that you are rubbing a reflexology spot?
I met a man in the park the other day, whose CKCS also has SM, he told me that he rubs the dogs' ear to help calm him down when he is in pain. I will have to try it for Bosco.

It's more of a firm but gentle squeeze between two fingers.

Notice the same point on a human is for nervousness. Not saying it takes away SM pain but it calms.
http://www.rainbowforevertrust.com/physical_eodr_photo.jpg

Kate H
25th February 2010, 03:31 PM
Gently pulling the ears works the same for horses - makes them relax.

Kate, Oliver and Aled

Tania
25th February 2010, 03:55 PM
How would I find a local neurologist?, his surgeon was a soft tissue expert, not sure what the other vet specialised in. the MRI scan was clear, and about 2-3 weeks later he had a CT scan ( I think, it was last year )

Hi, here is a link that has a list of specialists. I got this from The Cavalier Club Website.

http://www.vetindex.co.uk/vetindex/neuro_ref.htm

I will keep my fingers crossed.

kind regards

Love my Cavaliers
25th February 2010, 04:45 PM
I hope you are able to find a neurologist near you. If you can, bring a copy of Todo's MRI scan. Your vet should be able to give you a disc of it. Riley and Oliver's neurologist gives me discs for free, but some services may charge a nominal fee for it. I just think that having the previous scan may help the neurologist make a diagnosis - or he/she may order a new MRI depending on the quality of the previous scan. I do believe that having Todo be seen by a neurologist is the way to go here given his history and his current discomfort. Good luck to you.

Nicki
25th February 2010, 06:24 PM
With Tellington Touch you rub gently down the ears, one ear at a time and supporting the head and ear with the other hand, it is very effective at calming a dog, especially useful at the vets :D This is similar to what Pauline is doing with Dylan, and obviously effective for him too.

Karlin
25th February 2010, 08:40 PM
If he has had an MRI then I don;t think you need another. But I'd want a second opinion on that 'clear' diagnosis and also: to try CMSM meds to see if CM is causing the pain (it could b the issue).

I'd suggest sending it to Dr Clare Rusbridge for a second opinion. That will only cost 35 pounds for basic report I think. You can read information here (http://www.veterinary-neurologist.co.uk/sm_screening_breeders.htm) on what to do.

If she doesn't see anything and doesn;t think it could possibly be CM then maybe it is time to discuss surgery. I think there were lots of suggestions on things you might try first on your old thread? But really: I think youd want to try treating for CM first as almost every cavalier has it. But do have Clare reassess your MRI first.

If he is in pain, you do want most urgently, to get him onto appropriate painkillers to bring some relief.

*Pauline*
25th February 2010, 11:04 PM
With Tellington Touch you rub gently down the ears, one ear at a time and supporting the head and ear with the other hand, it is very effective at calming a dog, especially useful at the vets :D This is similar to what Pauline is doing with Dylan, and obviously effective for him too.

Yes I started with Tellington Touch, very useful, check it out on youtube.

But, Like Karlin says, he needs pain meds urgently. I only suggested acupressure as an interim.

gentess1
6th March 2010, 09:26 AM
I am hoping you all will hold me in the same contempt that I hold myself. I took Todd for further treatment, further scans showed that his discs had enflammed. I took the decision to operate.... and I lost him. I gambled with the life of the most beautiful and loving 2 year old friend you could ever hope to meet. It has took me 4 days to come on here because I can't look myself in the mirror at the moment.

Nicki
6th March 2010, 09:31 AM
Oh no so very very sorry to hear this :(:( - please please don't beat yourself up, we can only do what we think is the the best at the time with the information we have.

You did take him back for treatment and that is the important thing.

We are all here if you need us...

Take care and give yourself time to grieve - maybe you would like to post a memorial to Todd in that section? I have found that helps.

*Pauline*
6th March 2010, 12:33 PM
Oh no please don't feel like that. You couldn't have left him in that pain and if the operation was his only hope, you had to try that. I feel so sorry for your loss. I am sure the others will be a real comfort to you at this time though they must be miss him too.

gentess1
6th March 2010, 12:46 PM
Meg, ( the youngest (Ruby )), was always full of life. I think she has noticed the most, she comes to cuddle me, but in the most gentle way. We got Meg to be a companion to Todd, Roxy is close to Ben's age. I just never thought we would be leaving us that day. We didn't say goodbye properly, just handed him over expecting to get him back the next day. Every room has a seperate memory, I just have no escape form his memory. I won't every forget him, nor do I want to, but I am usless as a human at the moment, can't think, sleep or eat, just in a trance.

*Pauline*
6th March 2010, 01:08 PM
You are most probably in shock right now. Cuddle close to Meg and try to get out of the house as much as you can. :hug: :hug:

Karen and Ruby
6th March 2010, 02:15 PM
Im so so so sorry you lost your precious boy- :(


i know nothing anyone says will help right now but do try to keep Meg as normal as possible and I found that Bachs Recovery Remedy helped my two when I was going through a seperation and they were reallly suffering through my emotions- just put some in her drinking water every day x

I hope you feel better soon xxxxx