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An interesting bit of information

Kate H

Kate H

Well-known member
Spent a bit of time at Crufts this morning handing out leaflets encouraging people to send their scans to Sarah Blott. The person organising the leaflets told me that she is importing a Cavalier from the Netherlands (a dog I think) who not only does not have SM but also doesn't have CM, and his parents and grandparents are also CM/SM free. I know the Netherlands KC started taking SM seriously much earlier than this country, and have been much tougher on not allowing breeding from affected dogs; as in many continental countries, everybody has to have their dogs checked by the KC before they can breed a litter at all. Just goes to show what can be done...

Also talked to the AHT about the proposed KC/BVA scanning scheme. Everyone's getting together in May to decide on a definitive grading system, and there will be a seminar at Stoneleigh, probably in October, to introduce the scheme. And more info and booking details for the Cavalier Club/Royal Vet College conference on SM and MVD in November should be available shortly.

Chatted to one lady by the Cavalier ring who informed me that Oliver had SM because I fed him on dry food - all grain used in dog food contains fungus which can cause neurological damage. I managed to be polite...
(though it's not impossible, I suppose, that something like that could have caused the original genetic damage which led to CM - but wonder how she explains CM/SM in humans?)

Kate, Oliver and Aled
 
An Interesting Bit of Information

Kate,

Am I the only one thinking what depressing News you have just passed on.

Why can't the KC here stop Breeders from Breeding from affected Dogs here in Britain,and to have their Breeding Stock ckecked before they can Breed from them.

I don't know if any of you heard Caroline Kisko on the TV last night speaking on the Crufts Program about Genetic Problems in Dogs, what a piece of PR she did, no mention about Health Testing Breeding Stock, just the usual Lip Service .

The Puppy Contracts can't come soon enough ,thats the only thing I think that will help our Cavaliers. There were meetings about 2 years ago about grading systems, now it will be being talked about in maybe October , BIG DEAL.!!!And then what .More wasted time.

What will come out of the Conference to be held in November, I would think ,not a lot , unless the KC introduces Mandatory Health Tests, and Pigs will Fly Sooner than that happening.

Just to say ,what really made owning a Dog all about ,was for me , the Love shown by the Dogs and their Owners in the Crufts selection about the Folk whose Dogs had made such a difference in their Lives, not the Folk Poncing about in the Show Ring.

Bet
 
According to the AHT yesterday, the KC will almost certainly make using the KC/BVA health schemes for SM/MVD mandatory for their Accredited Breeeders scheme, which is being encouraged by the government as a way forward and the KC are being pressured to give the AB scheme some teeth, with regular inspections and refusal of registrations for not following the rules. So perhaps things are slowly beginning to move in the right direction. And a CM/SM free stud dog (with perhaps more imports to follow - someone else yesterday was talking about importing from Poland, another FCI country) could make a real difference - so don't get too depressed, Bet!!

As someone said to me at Crufts, the island the non-scanners are standing on is getting smaller and smaller, and at least one more of the big kennels, who were conspicuous by their absence, has recently started scanning. So keep on encouraging people to ask to see the certificates when they want a puppy or a stud dog - and to walk away if they're not available.

Kate, Oliver and Aled
 
I hope things will continue to move in the right direction. :xfngr:

While I'm still hoping for things to improve, I still have to ask this question:

Aren't some well-known UK show dogs being used at stud in other parts of Europe, including the Netherlands? I had recently researched this a little on the Internet and wonder how cavalier health will be impacted. This is happening in North America as well.

Also, I wonder how many times a cavalier needs to be MRI scanned in its lifetime to be declared CM/SM free.
 
I would have thought the presence or absence of CM could be diagnosed early on, as this is a matter of the growth of the bone in the skull at an early age (cf. the foetal tissue project). Given the presence of CM, then SM can develop at any age, but generally SM doesn't appear without the pre-existing presence of CM. There is always the problem that many overseas bloodlines stem from UK dogs, but some of these lines are quite old (some South African Cavaliers - including my first one - go back to 1950s imports, before CM was so prevalent, for example). I remember reading about the Netherlands programme in one of the SM reports (on the Cavalier club website??) - do we have a forum member in the Netherlands who could give us more information? Clare Rusbridge did her initial research at Utrecht University, so you would expect the Netherlands to have got going first!

Kate, Oliver and Aled
 
Kate H said:
I would have thought the presence or absence of CM could be diagnosed early on, as this is a matter of the growth of the bone in the skull at an early age (cf. the foetal tissue project). Given the presence of CM, then SM can develop at any age, but generally SM doesn't appear without the pre-existing presence of CM.
Click to expand...

It is believed that a dog free of syrinx at four years may not be free at eight years. Multiple dogs would need to be scanned at intervals throughout their lifetime to establish if there was a time when they could be declared SM free.


Kate H said:
There is always the problem that many overseas bloodlines stem from UK dogs, but some of these lines are quite old (some South African Cavaliers - including my first one - go back to 1950s imports, before CM was so prevalent, for example)
Click to expand...

This may explain why some overseas lines seem to have good scan results.

There are, however,also some countries that were very badly hit by SM, even before the problem became so widespread in the UK, because of linebreeding to particular UK dogs that they imported decades ago.

The problem continues with the importation of unscanned cavaliers into some countries that do not have a culture of scanning, perhaps because of the cost. There will be rising numbers of SM affected cavaliers in these countries.


Kate H said:
I remember reading about the Netherlands programme in one of the SM reports (on the Cavalier club website??)
Click to expand...

A small number of Netherland breeders got together and bred for health, including MRI'ing and grading their breeding cavaliers. There was a report, Karlin may know how to access it easily, but otherwise there was a paper at the International Conference 2006. Go to the Cavalier Club website, into Health, into Syringomyelia and then into the report on the conference
 
An Interesting Bit of Information

Before I get settled down to watch Crufts to-night ,and the follow up Program, Good Dod -Bad Dog after the Best in Show judging is finished,9 pm-10 pm, Which hopefully Caroline Kisko won't have things all her own way!

Could I just say Kate, I surely hope that you are right, about the Mandatory Health Testing for SM and MVD in Cavaliers for Accredited Breeders.

When that was said yesterday ,the KC can't back down now,

The next thing will be to get more Cavalier Breeders Accredited Breeders.

If though, Cavalier Breeders are still Exporting Either Unscanned or Cavaliers who have SM or MVD,will this not have to be being cracked down on.

Why is it not possible to have a List of Cavalier Breeders who are doing those Health Tests, also those Cavalier Breeders who are following the UK CKCS CLUB's Breeding Guidelines.

If the Cavalier Breeders were doing this, then there would be no need for Prospective Cavalier Buyers to ask to see a Health Certificate about whether Cavalier Breeders are Health Testing their Breeding Stock, those Cavalier Buyers would know where to go for a Cavalier .

Bet
 
I was at Crufts yesterday, I went to the Health Zone and talked to a chap representing the KC.
I have a leaflet "BVA/KC SM/CM Scheme, I will try and get an electronic copy tomorrow. The KC
told me his gut feeling is SM/CM is not as bad as everyone is making it out to be, he agreed there is
a problem but he feels it affects only 3% of dogs based on a recent results from some tests. From
what I understood the KC are going to put more responsibility onto the Breed Clubs.
He also claimed less than 1% of dogs KC registered are from "puppy farms"!
 
ps. I did go onto Crufts FM at 1pm. I talked about the new website and SM! (They didn't kick me off)
 
The KC
told me his gut feeling is SM/CM is not as bad as everyone is making it out to be
Click to expand...

If his gut is feeling that off,then he'd better get some Actimel or a stronger probiotic to sort it out.:confused:

Sins
 
Tania said:
I was at Crufts yesterday, I went to the Health Zone and talked to a chap representing the KC.
I have a leaflet "BVA/KC SM/CM Scheme, I will try and get an electronic copy tomorrow. The KC
told me his gut feeling is SM/CM is not as bad as everyone is making it out to be, he agreed there is
a problem but he feels it affects only 3% of dogs based on a recent results from some tests. From
what I understood the KC are going to put more responsibility onto the Breed Clubs.
He also claimed less than 1% of dogs KC registered are from "puppy farms"!
Click to expand...

Tania,

Do you know who this man was? Did you get his name? Both claims are unbelievabe, and I would like to make sure they are challenged.
 
I wonder if Tania went too early? Several people complained that in the first half of the morning there were only KC information staff there who didn't know very much. Later in the morning, Simon Swift was there and a clinician from the AHT - though it would have been good to have someone directly involved with the EBV project, or SM research, present (but I left at 2 pm so don't know if others were present later on in the day).

Kate, Oliver and Aled
 
Margaret C said:
Tania,

Do you know who this man was? Did you get his name? Both claims are unbelievabe, and I would like to make sure they are challenged.
Click to expand...

Jeff Sampson was the chaps name. I asked him the same question several times, he was adamant the
RSPCA were to blame.
 
If it was Jeff Sampson, that's incredible - he's the KC's top genetics expert!! Anyway, as most Cavaliers have never been scanned, any pronouncement on the incidence of SM can only be projections based on available scientific evidence (as the researchers are careful to make clear). So no one can say definitely that it is 1% - or any other % for that matter.

Kate, Oliver and Aled
 
An Interesting Bit of Information

I know that there was a BVA/KC Health Survey done about 4 years ago,and the SM Figures for Cavaliers was if I remember ,2.something and that included Neurological Problems.

Here is the Big But,there were about 300 Forms returned, and I think it would be mainly UK Cavalier Club Members who took part in the Survey.

Would any of you on the List have taken part in the Survey.

The other thing is Mr Skerritt has said at a SM Seminar I was at , that he had about 1.000 Cavaliers ' reports with SM.

So Tania I guess the SM Cavalier Figure you were given would probably be from that Survey.

Nothing I would guess will budge the KC from that figure.!!!

Bet
 
Bet said:
I know that there was a BVA/KC Health Survey done about 4 years ago,and the SM Figures for Cavaliers was if I remember ,2.something and that included Neurological Problems.

Here is the Big But,there were about 300 Forms returned, and I think it would be mainly UK Cavalier Club Members who took part in the Survey.

Would any of you on the List have taken part in the Survey.

The other thing is Mr Skerritt has said at a SM Seminar I was at , that he had about 1.000 Cavaliers ' reports with SM.

So Tania I guess the SM Cavalier Figure you were given would probably be from that Survey.

Nothing I would guess will budge the KC from that figure.!!!

Bet
Click to expand...


Yes Bet you are right it was this survey he referred to. I am sorry I did not record the conversation,
it was busy and bitty he was half talking to me and other people, I don't think they had enough
people on the stand representing the KC only girls handing out leaflets. He mentioned the majority
of Cavaliers are not bred from KC or Breed Club breeders which we know they have said before. I
wasn't a very good scout, in future I will record conversations. I am positive about the percentages
because I wrote them down and because of all the interruptions I was able to ask him the same
question more than once! Having looked at my notes a lot of what he told me is on his website so it is not worth repeating.
 
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